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Victoria 3 - Dev Diary #91 - Post-Summer Plans

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Hello and welcome to the last update before our traditional July break! Today I will drop a little more concrete information of what will be coming in future updates 1.4 (Q3) and 1.5 (Q4).

First, a few words about the 1.3.5 patch that we released Monday June 26. We are very happy to see the positive response to the changes made, both to the Voice of the People content and the free update. As we mentioned previously, these are not all the planned improvements to Voice of the People and we plan to give more love to France in 1.5, with further updates to the Paris Commune and more.

Also, while the reception of the feature to selectively demobilize Generals has been overall positive, there is a remaining high-priority concern that you still cannot tell conscripts raised to stand down for as long as you remain at war. This functionality was not implemented for 1.3.5 since we're planning to address the matter more comprehensively in a different way in the near future. We'll touch on that below, in the section about Update 1.5.

We're planning on putting out one more hotfix (1.3.6) in the 1.3 series before we go on summer vacation. With any luck that should be available to you already, if not it will arrive within a few days of this diary publication date. Among other things this fix addresses the bug where overlords helping out their subjects get their claimed states as wargoals if they win.

Now, on to the future!

Selected Highlights in Update 1.4​

Update 1.4 focuses mostly on bug fixes and performance improvements, but we have still made a handful of major enhancements:

Convoy Raiding Revisions​

Convoy Raiding has been made more impactful on the long term economic health of your supply network, as the time it takes to recover sunk convoys now scales properly against both the damaged shipping lanes and overall number of convoys produced. However, defending against raiders has also been made more reliable, with the introduction of a ‘shielding’ effect where admirals with Escort Convoys orders now directly reduce the number of convoys sunk during attacks by an amount relative to their fleet’s defensive combat effectiveness, further boosted by secondary PMs such as Destroyers.

Patrolling fleets are no longer only there to try and catch convoy raiders in the act, but also act to directly reduce the number of convoys sunk by hostile admirals
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Goods Substitution Changes​

The Goods Substitution system has received a face-lift to make it more easy to work with for both ourselves and modders. We’ve also taken the time to tweak a bunch of the weights for goods to make certain goods more in demand (such as for example Meat and Fish, as well as Oil for heating in the early game)

Subject Independence Wars​

A much-requested fix to independence wars means that subjects that are fighting for their freedom no longer continue to pay subject taxes to or stay in the market of their overlord.

Imperialist AI Revisions​

The AI of Imperialist colonial powers in 1.4 has been made more inclined to go on certain overseas adventures such as opening up Japan’s market, and also less inclined to support Unrecognized powers against the aggressions of fellow imperialists unless they have a strong reason to do so (such as an alliance or a desire to seize that land for themselves).



But that is not everything that will be available upon launch of Update 1.4:

Highlights in Update 1.5 Open Beta​

The Open Beta for update 1.5 will launch simultaneously with Update 1.4, and will contain a number of features deemed too experimental or too early in development to go into the main branch. This Open Beta will be running for an extended period during which we will incorporate your feedback to make the final 1.5 release as good as possible.

Among the many features that will be available in Update 1.5 Open Beta will be:

Shared Fronts​

Adjacent Fronts belonging to the same side in a Diplomatic Play will now act as one unified Front, thus reducing the number of Fronts to manage in conflicts with many participants. This means that, as an example, a war in pre-unification Germany will not devolve into a dozen or more fronts due to numerous participants.

Multiple Simultaneous Battles per Front​

To compensate for the fact that Fronts might now be larger, each advancing General on a Front may be able to start a Battle if the Front is long enough despite one Battle already being fought.

Reverse Sways in Diplomatic Plays​

Unintentional rhyme aside, this long-awaited feature will let a potential participant name their own price for joining a side in a Diplomatic Play instead of having to rely on the leaders of the Play guessing at what they want. All Sways (such as Wargoals, Obligations etc) are also valid for Reverse Swaying.

Call Ally in Diplomatic Plays​

Countries that can be called into wars, such as subjects or allies, no longer automatically join every Diplomatic Play they could be called into. Instead the primary participant has to explicitly call them in, which costs Maneuvers.

New Sways​

Numerous new Sways to offer or request in Diplomatic Plays, including offering or asking for states/subjects and diplomatic deals such as bankrolling or joining a customs union.

Under attack by France and somewhat desperate, Belgium is willing to agree to a number of different concessions in exchange for British military support
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Local Price Variation​

Goods production / consumption will now always have a local effect no matter how good your Market Access. This leads to natural synergies, where having your Steel Mill in the same state as your Coal and Iron Mines makes for more profitable operations of all three buildings than if they are distributed across the nation. On the other hand, building a Textile Mill in a state with Cotton Plantations but precious few Pops to buy their Luxury Clothes might be worse for the Textile Mill than building it in a major population center with loads of demand.

By looking at the local prices for Wine in the French Market, you can easily see the difference between the states that are major producers and the ones that are not
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New Buildings and Production Methods​

Several buildings have had select functions split off into dedicated buildings, and many Production Methods have been added and rebalanced. The end result is to make it easier for you to balance your economy without always having to use trade to export excess production.

Vineyards have been split away from grain farms and turned into their own building type
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Retreat and Pursuit​

Battles that are all-but-decided will now conclude more rapidly through special Battle Conditions instead of dragging on pointlessly for weeks and weeks. More disciplined Generals will be able to organize more controlled, less damaging retreats.

Military Formations (Armies and Fleets)​

This will be a major revision to how you manage and organize your armed forces, to give you more intuitive control both before and during active warfare while still retaining the option to let wars play out on their own. As I mentioned in the beginning of this diary, among many other things this will revise how mobilization and conscripts works currently, making both conscription and early demobilization more intuitive and less frustrating.

Military Formations are currently in very active development and we expect it to receive a lot of iteration and polish over the course of the 1.5 Open Beta. Much like Strategic Objectives were not part of the initial 1.2 Open Beta release, you can expect features relating to Formations to be released over several phases. You will learn much more about this in later dev diaries after the summer, the first which you can expect on August 10!

Note that this is by no means an exhaustive list. In addition to these you can expect a great deal more features and major improvements to be made, both for the initial and subsequent Open Beta releases.

Wishing you a wonderful summer filled with lots of Victoria 3, and we'll see you all in 6 weeks!
 
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Agreed, this is probably the single best addition to the game yet honestly.

Havent read through the whole thread yet so sorry if this has been addressed, but will adding new buildings negatively impact performance? I am very pro-granularity and distinct wineries are a very welcome addition, ideally I'd like to see more of that kind of thing, but not at the expense of actually being able to play the game (I am well above rec specs before anyone asks)
New building types _can_ impact performance if it leads to construction of more buildings overall, yes. So we're careful about how many types we're adding and have to balance such that we're incentivizing constructing tall rather than wide. It's absolutely possible to increase the number of building types without increasing the total number of buildings in the game, but it needs design- and AI work to get there.
 
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New building types _can_ impact performance if it leads to construction of more buildings overall, yes. So we're careful about how many types we're adding and have to balance such that we're incentivizing constructing tall rather than wide. It's absolutely possible to increase the number of building types without increasing the total number of buildings in the game, but it needs design- and AI work to get there.
Wouldn't the best solution be limiting building space a bit? Like you need a specific amount of Urbanisation to build more different types of factories, it would limit how fast a rural economy can industrailse, adds a extra factor in what to build where and limit the overall amount of buildings to a somewhat hard limit
 
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Wouldn't the best solution be limiting building space a bit? Like you need a specific amount of Urbanisation to build more different types of factories, it would limit how fast a rural economy can industrailse, adds a extra factor in what to build where and limit the overall amount of buildings to a somewhat hard limit
This would feel entirely too arbitrary.
 
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Hmm isn't multiple battles taking into account army size? Because as I read the DD, with the change, it will be better to have 3 generals with 20 regiments each rather than one general with 60 regiments, as the former will be capable of initiating 3 simultaneous battles on a front and win 3 times faster.

This can quickly lead into general microing and for the lategame that can easily be hundreds of clicks...

Why not add an auto battle size setting per army, or a divider based on the size of the front? Perhaps base it off the generals rank or on the total nuber of regiments?
 
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Question about autonomus investment and local synergies.
Will the "AI" build to maximise the synergies or will it as it does today, just build all over the place?
The AI understands local pricing and acts accordingly.
Furthermore, with 1.3.5 the AI should be considerably less random in how it builds.
 
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Hmm isn't multiple battles taking into account army size? Because as I read the DD, with the change, it will be better to have 3 generals with 20 regiments each rather than one general with 60 regiments, as the former will be capable of initiating 3 simultaneous battles on a front and win 3 times faster.

This can quickly lead into general microing and for the lategame that can easily be hundreds of clicks...

Why not add an auto battle size setting per army, or a divider based on the size of the front? Perhaps base it off the generals rank or on the total nuber of regiments?
Multiple battles will have limiting factors applied to it to accommodate for the issues you're referring to. The exact details aren't determined yet and we'll discuss this more after the summer.
 
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Multiple battles will have limiting factors applied to it to accommodate for the issues you're referring to. The exact details aren't determined yet and we'll discuss this more after the summer.
So, summing up all warfare "fixes" of upcoming 1.5 you are... reinventing Hearts of Iron IV battleplanner, but less advanced, less immersive and less flexible. What was the point of straying from decade-proved and working formula of actual unit control?
 
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What was the point of straying from decade-proved and working formula of actual unit control?
All other GSGs are reactive. The player has to make a thousand small decisions (the absolute majority of which are totally obvious) every month, just to avoid losing terribly for not reacting.
V3 is uniquely different: players' actions are essentially plans, player interacts with queues rather than gives immediate orders. Even events that need players' reaction have explicit timers, that are usually quite long, about 3 months. I firmly believe this approach should be expanded and celebrated, not rolled back.
If I wanted to keep close attention to everything happening all the time, I'd go play CS or LoL (which I sometimes do).

With the ton of criticism I have for V3 (mostly out of love), and agreeing that there are significant problems with current warfare system, I think in this particular thing the result of dev's work is just solid.

The DD's wording "let wars play out on their own" might be provocative, but this is exactly what I love about this game (and this is not only about wars).
 
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Love the new sways. Can we please also get sway/CB to enforce subject/ally claims?

It is really sad that currently we are able to liberate entire countries, but not cores of existing countries we are ally/overlord of
 
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It is amusing how people are cheering on some insignificant changes, while developers remain silent about major issues of the game.
This is just an impression I have, but posters under dev diaries seem to skew towards those who already like the game as is. In few days, and definitely after release, you will see threads being much more critical. Granted, there is not anything wrong per se with changes outlined here, they are decent improvements for a game that needs major overhauls however.

I remember getting absolutely piled on when I criticized VOTP under a dev diary, only for my complaints to turn out 100% accurate when the DLC released.
 
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The local price system looks interesting, does it work just through a cap on national market access?

Assuming that’s the case, I have a few small concerns, like is transportation factored in? Is it as hard to transport say, wine, down a river to an adjacent state as it is to transport it to a state in the middle of the Alps with no water connection to the place it’s being produced?

And second, how will this work with trade? If one of my trade centers has access to really cheap local prices, compared to the national price, will I be able to export selectively at that local trade center?

What I’m really worried about I guess is just that the local prices will be too local. Building a steel mill right next to some coal mines wasn’t as common as one might think, historically. Many major industrial cities developed around transport hubs that resources could easily be moved to and concentrated at, not where the raw resources were themselves.

Regardless though it still looks like a cool change, and I look forwards to it.
 
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1.5 looks good. It is what Victoria should had needed to be after 1.1: both military and diplomacy systems working as intended (functional fronts with bugs related to commanders fixed, and sways working both sides in diplomatic plays, covering all of the current relevant options), not ignoring what has been made for good so far: legitimacy fixes and autonomous investment implemented.

After 1.3 and Voice of the People misteps, things look better now. It's a pity that we may have needed to wait for more than a year to play the "ultimate" release version of the game.
 
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I'm really excited about local prices, it adds interesting depth to the economic gameplay that I'm really excited to see materializing. I have however some concerns:
- Doesn't it incentivise players to build wide at the same time, which impacts performance? Suddenly you may want to spread out your production across country, so that all people have access to cheap goods
- How will trade work if it depends on the difference of prices between countries? Suddenly the random placement of trade centers may become very frustrating.

Nothing ongoing right now but we have some ideas of how we want to improve this mechanic in the future. One of the ideas I've been toying around with is to have universities be qualifications factories (Student pops!).
It's a bit worrying as it would decentralise pop information. Suddenly part of the population is represented as a good which may cause bizzare effects in terms of things like taxes, population count in the country, migration etc.

In general however I can see how Victoria team puts effort into the making game much more interesting and I'm really happy to see how it grows. Making a game like that is very hard I can imagine and Victoria 3 fills a niche (geopolitics/economic simulator) that I've always wanted to see, but competing products are often very clunky, shallow and have weird behaviour.
 
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Any plans for housing, public housing, urban squalor, crime (maybe tie in police funding), public services (expanding on healthcare and adding fire departments), and tourism as an industry (the golden age of travel was from the mid 1800s up until the early 1940s)?
 
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You know, this open Beta changes sound exactly like what the game needs. Thank you for implementing it.
 
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its completely unacceptable to tease QOL that will be gamechanging like this.
u have to outsource 1.4 and 1.5 to some other studio right now.
i cant wait 3 months for everyone to have their summer vacation.
we need to abolish swedish monopoly on goat titles.
 
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