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Victoria 3 - Dev Diary #91 - Post-Summer Plans

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Hello and welcome to the last update before our traditional July break! Today I will drop a little more concrete information of what will be coming in future updates 1.4 (Q3) and 1.5 (Q4).

First, a few words about the 1.3.5 patch that we released Monday June 26. We are very happy to see the positive response to the changes made, both to the Voice of the People content and the free update. As we mentioned previously, these are not all the planned improvements to Voice of the People and we plan to give more love to France in 1.5, with further updates to the Paris Commune and more.

Also, while the reception of the feature to selectively demobilize Generals has been overall positive, there is a remaining high-priority concern that you still cannot tell conscripts raised to stand down for as long as you remain at war. This functionality was not implemented for 1.3.5 since we're planning to address the matter more comprehensively in a different way in the near future. We'll touch on that below, in the section about Update 1.5.

We're planning on putting out one more hotfix (1.3.6) in the 1.3 series before we go on summer vacation. With any luck that should be available to you already, if not it will arrive within a few days of this diary publication date. Among other things this fix addresses the bug where overlords helping out their subjects get their claimed states as wargoals if they win.

Now, on to the future!

Selected Highlights in Update 1.4​

Update 1.4 focuses mostly on bug fixes and performance improvements, but we have still made a handful of major enhancements:

Convoy Raiding Revisions​

Convoy Raiding has been made more impactful on the long term economic health of your supply network, as the time it takes to recover sunk convoys now scales properly against both the damaged shipping lanes and overall number of convoys produced. However, defending against raiders has also been made more reliable, with the introduction of a ‘shielding’ effect where admirals with Escort Convoys orders now directly reduce the number of convoys sunk during attacks by an amount relative to their fleet’s defensive combat effectiveness, further boosted by secondary PMs such as Destroyers.

Patrolling fleets are no longer only there to try and catch convoy raiders in the act, but also act to directly reduce the number of convoys sunk by hostile admirals
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Goods Substitution Changes​

The Goods Substitution system has received a face-lift to make it more easy to work with for both ourselves and modders. We’ve also taken the time to tweak a bunch of the weights for goods to make certain goods more in demand (such as for example Meat and Fish, as well as Oil for heating in the early game)

Subject Independence Wars​

A much-requested fix to independence wars means that subjects that are fighting for their freedom no longer continue to pay subject taxes to or stay in the market of their overlord.

Imperialist AI Revisions​

The AI of Imperialist colonial powers in 1.4 has been made more inclined to go on certain overseas adventures such as opening up Japan’s market, and also less inclined to support Unrecognized powers against the aggressions of fellow imperialists unless they have a strong reason to do so (such as an alliance or a desire to seize that land for themselves).



But that is not everything that will be available upon launch of Update 1.4:

Highlights in Update 1.5 Open Beta​

The Open Beta for update 1.5 will launch simultaneously with Update 1.4, and will contain a number of features deemed too experimental or too early in development to go into the main branch. This Open Beta will be running for an extended period during which we will incorporate your feedback to make the final 1.5 release as good as possible.

Among the many features that will be available in Update 1.5 Open Beta will be:

Shared Fronts​

Adjacent Fronts belonging to the same side in a Diplomatic Play will now act as one unified Front, thus reducing the number of Fronts to manage in conflicts with many participants. This means that, as an example, a war in pre-unification Germany will not devolve into a dozen or more fronts due to numerous participants.

Multiple Simultaneous Battles per Front​

To compensate for the fact that Fronts might now be larger, each advancing General on a Front may be able to start a Battle if the Front is long enough despite one Battle already being fought.

Reverse Sways in Diplomatic Plays​

Unintentional rhyme aside, this long-awaited feature will let a potential participant name their own price for joining a side in a Diplomatic Play instead of having to rely on the leaders of the Play guessing at what they want. All Sways (such as Wargoals, Obligations etc) are also valid for Reverse Swaying.

Call Ally in Diplomatic Plays​

Countries that can be called into wars, such as subjects or allies, no longer automatically join every Diplomatic Play they could be called into. Instead the primary participant has to explicitly call them in, which costs Maneuvers.

New Sways​

Numerous new Sways to offer or request in Diplomatic Plays, including offering or asking for states/subjects and diplomatic deals such as bankrolling or joining a customs union.

Under attack by France and somewhat desperate, Belgium is willing to agree to a number of different concessions in exchange for British military support
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Local Price Variation​

Goods production / consumption will now always have a local effect no matter how good your Market Access. This leads to natural synergies, where having your Steel Mill in the same state as your Coal and Iron Mines makes for more profitable operations of all three buildings than if they are distributed across the nation. On the other hand, building a Textile Mill in a state with Cotton Plantations but precious few Pops to buy their Luxury Clothes might be worse for the Textile Mill than building it in a major population center with loads of demand.

By looking at the local prices for Wine in the French Market, you can easily see the difference between the states that are major producers and the ones that are not
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New Buildings and Production Methods​

Several buildings have had select functions split off into dedicated buildings, and many Production Methods have been added and rebalanced. The end result is to make it easier for you to balance your economy without always having to use trade to export excess production.

Vineyards have been split away from grain farms and turned into their own building type
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Retreat and Pursuit​

Battles that are all-but-decided will now conclude more rapidly through special Battle Conditions instead of dragging on pointlessly for weeks and weeks. More disciplined Generals will be able to organize more controlled, less damaging retreats.

Military Formations (Armies and Fleets)​

This will be a major revision to how you manage and organize your armed forces, to give you more intuitive control both before and during active warfare while still retaining the option to let wars play out on their own. As I mentioned in the beginning of this diary, among many other things this will revise how mobilization and conscripts works currently, making both conscription and early demobilization more intuitive and less frustrating.

Military Formations are currently in very active development and we expect it to receive a lot of iteration and polish over the course of the 1.5 Open Beta. Much like Strategic Objectives were not part of the initial 1.2 Open Beta release, you can expect features relating to Formations to be released over several phases. You will learn much more about this in later dev diaries after the summer, the first which you can expect on August 10!

Note that this is by no means an exhaustive list. In addition to these you can expect a great deal more features and major improvements to be made, both for the initial and subsequent Open Beta releases.

Wishing you a wonderful summer filled with lots of Victoria 3, and we'll see you all in 6 weeks!
 
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Wry exciting updates in the pipeline, i ant wait to see the game stretch it’s legs and reach it’s potential! Also good on paradox for seeming to treat their devs well with a good work/life balance.
 
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I love that they used a state in Persia as an example for the new vineyards building. Move over France, time to show you how winemaking is done right.
I hope someday we get specific goods modifiers based on manufacturer- Krupp cannnons, French wine, American automobiles, Chinese silks
 
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By the way, i am not sure if it happens everytime but the legitimist king that you can brought back to the french throne is the Infante Juan which was not the pretender at the time.

Will it be better to put instead Henri, Count of Chambord, which was the pretendant from 1844 untill 1883 or his uncle, Louis Antoine, Duke of Angoulême, from 1830 to 1844?



 
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Oh, wow! Lots of big changes. I hope they all turn out well.
 
Everything looks very promising, I am eager to see the effects of Local Prices on the economical strategic level.
One of the criticisms I often have seen is that the game map matters too little, I hope it somehow will take in consideration the effective distance between the states and that this change will give players more reasons to think about the buildings placement.
 
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Sorry, I still don’t see how this will improve war. The more tweaks that the system gets the more I feel like it needs a ground up rebuild.
 
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I love the announced changes. I'm looking forward to version 1.5.
Speaking of war changes, I wanted to report an exploit that hopefully could be changed. It is about the possibility of changing the types of troops of the insurgent states prior to a civil war. While the game prevents you from reducing barracks, it still allows you to change production methods, hurting the AI because of the gear reset penalty.
 
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Just piling on the love here, all these updates are much needed. Love seeing the game evolve.

On that topic:
Are there any plans to tweak the colonial SOL issue? Currently, all my colonial rule seems to do is bring prosperity to the natives, in most cases they have a higher SOL than the mainland while being discriminated against in an extraction colony, probably because of the lack of taxes.
Are there any plans to work on that aspect?
 
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Good stuff. Does the local price variation only apply to the local state, or does it apply some sort of increasing cost over distance?
To put it another way, if I have coal mines in one state, iron mines two states over, and a steel mill in the middle, does the steel mill benefit from the proximity of the mines?
 
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How is the possible performance impact of local prices so far during tests? This is my biggest worry.
If we can achieve this with minimum issues it would be amazing.
 
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By the way, i am not sure if it happens everytime but the legitimist king that you can brought back to the french throne is the Infante Juan which was not the pretender at the time.

Will it be better to put instead Henri, Count of Chambord, which was the pretendant from 1844 untill 1883 or his uncle, Louis Antoine, Duke of Angoulême, from 1830 to 1844?
Don't forget that the old Charles X was still alive at game start (and sometimes the death event could spawn in the 1845+)

I'm also going to be annoying about that, but Victor de Broglie should be dealt with. Someone turning Landowners to Orleanists for 20+ years is too strong and makes the entry too easy.
 
Nothing ongoing right now but we have some ideas of how we want to improve this mechanic in the future. One of the ideas I've been toying around with is to have universities be qualifications factories (Student pops!).
Yes - this!

Excellent job, great direction!

Anything major planned for general flavor - or performance? (is it minor or major?) It would be amazing for a few more countries could get some JE's in vanilla.

Also - Italy, can we change the required states PLEASE
 
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More local pricing and reverse sways seem like really interesting mechanics that might tempt me into giving V3 another try.

Also really pleased about the plan to offer an Open Beta for 1.5. More open development is better for players.
 
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This will be a major revision to how you manage and organize your armed forces, to give you more intuitive control both before and during active warfare while still retaining the option to let wars play out on their own.
It is amusing how people are cheering on some insignificant changes, while developers remain silent about major issues of the game.
Vineyards? Seriously? We have entire diplomacy system that is so broken it became a meme.
Local price variation? How it is important when thousand-strong construction sector makes it all irrelevant.

Of Construction sector, inept diplomacy, primitive warfare and performance, performance recieved a one-line mention. One line for the reason huge amount of players just abandon the game. Let me remind you that when Stellaris faced massive uproar about performance devs dedicated several diaries to performance issues alone.
And in regards to warfare... Victoria 3 Paradox team is so adamand in keeping their awful system they are ready to bury their game but keep it unchanged.
Like adding new strings and explosive arrows and composite materials to bows, while eveyone around them switched to firearms.
No matter how many "frontline fixes" or front mergings will arrive Victoria 3 warfare will remain more primitive, less flexible, immersive and less fun than any of other Paradox major titles on their 1.0 release.
No matter how many new diplomatic plays you will add - it will be pointless because AI have no capability\ways to use them. Give a monkey thousand tools and machines to build a house and the result will be the same.
People often compare Victoria 3 to Imperator in terms of numbers of players and gradual abandonment and lost interest of a playerbase, but I think they are wrong. It is not Imperator - it is Sengoku. A bland game, serving only as a testing ground for Crusader Kings 2, which reaped all success.

All this cheering and jubilation on this oh-so-great-changes will turn sour and history of Voice of the People will repeat itself - when people full of high hopes of Victoria 3 finally getting better will realise that all major problems are still here and minor fixes are not even close to make game fun.
 
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Local Price Variation​

Goods production / consumption will now always have a local effect no matter how good your Market Access. This leads to natural synergies, where having your Steel Mill in the same state as your Coal and Iron Mines makes for more profitable operations of all three buildings than if they are distributed across the nation. On the other hand, building a Textile Mill in a state with Cotton Plantations but precious few Pops to buy their Luxury Clothes might be worse for the Textile Mill than building it in a major population center with loads of demand.

By looking at the local prices for Wine in the French Market, you can easily see the difference between the states that are major producers and the ones that are not
View attachment 1000757

I know it's WIP, but those "local prices" Essentially add transport fees (supplier gets less money then paid by buyer). Then come questions. Does it destroy money?

Also I am concerned those "transport fees" Will make export economy even worse option compared to producing bits of everything domestically. As for example sulphur mine would need to sell goods cheap locally, so then they enter nation market - that then would need to be cheap enough for trade route to be profitable (again, just another fee to pay besides tariffs and trade centers taking their share already) . I hope devs want international trade to get bigger and do those changes in way to increase its viability.

(Unless mine would sell portion of it's goods on cheap local market and rest on expensive nation market)

Another question is performance. Are we really getting full on market price calculations for each good for each province in game? That sounds like a lot of markets to calculate
 
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Don't forget that the old Charles X was still alive at game start (and sometimes the death event could spawn in the 1845+)

I'm also going to be annoying about that, but Victor de Broglie should be dealt with. Someone turning Landowners to Orleanists for 20+ years is too strong and makes the entry too easy.
As i choosed the legitimist, i got an event with the death of Charles X and the possibility to bring his corpse back to France to get more support for the legitimist faction.

And i think that in the history, if the legitimist were able to come back to France at this time, it would have been his son or grandson, given his abdication and advanced age.