Stellaris Dev Diary #185: Announcing Necroids

[TheDungen]

Actually, "Make Space Great Again" was the literal slogan of Stellaris for quite a while. Martin would even wear a hat like the one on the alien on the Stellaris streams. I think other employees also wore them. So nothing to do with any actual politicians, be they authoritarian or not. But only arcs back to Stellaris/Paradox own early advertisement.



Except, we do not. Many of these things are broken for A WHOLE YEAR by now. Many of them are things they wilfully broke too. Things that at one point were working.

- Crises are basically dead. Even at 25x strength left running in observer mode. They do almost nothing. They take a handful of systems and then simply go AFK till they're mopped up.

- Empires are fundamentally broken and become weaker as the game goes on, same for AE's/FE's. The problem here seems to be tied to the FTL rework. As the AI does not pursue a long-term plan it will constantly adjust. This leads to the slow fleets turning around and changing directions constantly. Achieving pretty little to nothing if they don't just stay at one place flying in circles. The change to Jump Drives exacerbates this issue. It likely also plays into the broken Crises behaviour.

- The planet rework was meant to reduce micro, give people better oversight, make it easier for the Ai to deal with planets, etc. Instead, it did the exact opposite. It added a bunch of menus, it just changed the tile system to unlock based on population forcing constant revisiting of the planets, the districts too require constant changing number crunching, jobs and who works what have become way more opaque, etc. Add to this that the Ai can't deal with it, at all. The Ai was able to plunk down 8-25 random buildings on a planet where pops would grow automatically to work these jobs, then cease to grow. It can't deal with the new system, at all. Hell, getting people to work the jobs you want and not work those you don't has turned into an insane task. As has managing potentially dozens or hundreds of planets.

I could go on and on. But they fundamentally broke the Ai, they broke the crises, they ramped up micromanagement to an extreme degree. And many of these things have been broken to close to a year. And there has been little to no indication they plan to address any of these things. Instead, they talk about performance increases every once in a blue moon. Performance that was also made much worse over time. So they are merely attempting to bring it back to where it was. With the issue seemingly being the engine rather than the PC it's running on.

If you don't like the planet rework you're free to roll back to the patch before it.

 

[TheDungen]

There has been radio silence on fixing crisis/war AI. Performance and micromanagement have been addressed, not this. I wouldn't be annoyed if we got so much as a confirmation that a fix was in the works. Maybe a general ETA at this point would be nice too, even if it's something like "it's on our radar 6-9 months from now," since IIRC the last time AI/crisises were even mentioned was for Feds (which broke the crisis AI even worse).

I can deal with current performance issues and micromanagement by playing only small galaxies, setting endgame to 2400, and playing minimum habitable planets. I can't do anything about the Unbidden patrolling 4-6 systems for 50 years, never expanding and never spawning followup invasions.

Has it occurred to you these might be thing they need to fix before fixing the AI?

 

[Kyoumen]

Paradox-Devs develop Stellaris, but aren't responsible to complete, fix, optimise and balance Stellaris etc. and all. Whether it's true or not doesn't really matter since if it's not in the jurisdiction of the devs then it's still in the jurisdiction of Paradox itself. It's just someone like you who tries to force everyone into this trap to make the wrong people, but ( "funnily" ) still within Paradox responsible. If you don't like this then 01. don't make this up or 02. assume that people don't make the devs, but Paradox itself responsible since that's mostly the case anyways.

I'm sorry, but I can't work out precisely what you are saying here.

Your opinion. My opinion: No.

You genuinely think a stickied "problems with Stellaris" thread would remain polite or reasonable?

If I were you then I wouldn't open that can since then you've to talk how Paradox treats its own employees, too. I mean I know what you try to imply how it's always the customer that's responsible for any stress-level a Paradox-employee suffers from, but plot-twist: Paradox itself is also a stress-factor for its own employees.

I am in fact 100% sympathetic for discussions on that topic, and no I do not and have not implied that only the customer is responsible for the stress levels of Paradox employees. However, a) a discussion on Paradox working conditions is even less on-topic than this is, and b) no, it not required to discuss that topic in order to address how some people on the forum spam dev diary threads with unrelated complaints.

I've already covered this trap above, but it seems pretty convenient for you to emphasize extraordinarily the latter.

I do not feel that mentioning that it happened, and that things like it have happened repeatedly in other threads (both of which are inarguable facts) counts as "extraordinary emphasis". But since that appears to have been misunderstood: I am not saying everyone here did that or condones that. But it did happen, and it keeps happening, and it should not happen.

 

[Kyoumen]

View attachment 631831

 

[BaronNoir]

To be honest, while the AI is always improvable and certainly struggle a bit in Stellaris, the game is so complex, with so many layers added since release....

The day I will see a AI on a game sold for 60$ being able to actually be challenging without massive cheats, I will be afraid that the game will spawn a Determined Exterminator instead of crashing...

 

[-Marauder-]

If you don't like the planet rework you're free to roll back to the patch before it.

The rework WOULD be fine if:

-The Ai could cope with it.
-They would allow one to streamline it via seeing expected population, jobs, produce, and consumed, as well as put down buildings to be build/upgraded as slots become available. Maybe give Empires a way to automatically discourage/stop growth once pops hit a certain threshold and resume growth when pops move out/are resettled.

The problem is the same as it is with the AI, Crises, etc right now. It's broken on a fundamental level, lacking basic features one should be able to expect, and made problems worse rather than fix them when it was specifically said to be intended to do so. And don't give me the "You can just roll back!". Sure, and be unable to play with other people, products I've purchased, etc. It's not an argument, it's a deflection of one. Where you can always go "Well, you can just go away!".

 

[-Marauder-]

To be honest, while the AI is always improvable and certainly struggle a bit in Stellaris, the game is so complex, with so many layers added since release....

The day I will see a AI on a game sold for 60$ being able to actually be challenging without massive cheats, I will be afraid that the game will spawn a Determined Exterminator instead of crashing...

Nobody said anything about "without cheats". The issue is that the Ai isn't even working WITH CHEATS. And this includes the Crises factions, AE, etc. Which is a "recent" problem as it came about due to the massive overhaul. It's a self created problem we absolutely should be able to expect them to fix.

 

[BaronNoir]

Nobody said anything about "without cheats". The issue is that the Ai isn't even working WITH CHEATS. And this includes the Crises factions, AE, etc. Which is a "recent" problem as it came about due to the massive overhaul. It's a self created problem we absolutely should be able to expect them to fix.

I mean, let's be realist here. The AI was dumber than a Ork who underwent a squig brain transfer when the game began, it would take a miracle to have it improved with so many systems shackled on. My hopes are for Stellaris II or to stop adding game channging features.

 

[-Marauder-]

I mean, let's be realist here. The AI was dumber than a Ork who underwent a squig brain transfer when the game began, it would take a miracle to have it improved with so many systems shackled on. My hopes are for Stellaris II or to stop adding game channging features.

But that's the thing, it did improve and tremendously so. The AI before the overhaul was approaching something that SEEMED genuinely competent, even if they weren't necessarily competent. It could be threatening, it could play the game with the leg up it was given. AE's rose, expanded and became threats. The Crises factions could gobble up huge swaths of the galaxy easily.

AI wise, the game was heading in a good direction. Till it suddenly wasn't anymore.

 

[Alkaid98]

Now, see, this response I do have a problem with. You do not have "higher standards" than a person who is happy with the game as is, you are not better than a person who thinks the game is fine as is. You have a difference of opinion. If they are happy with the game as is - enough to play it and buy DLC for it - then they either do not agree with your assessment of its flaws or do not feel they detract enough from the game to make it not worth playing.

And that opinion is no less, and no more, valid than your own. If enough people share your opinion (or at least opinions that the state of the game is unsatisfactory), then Paradox should fix something. But if you were right in stating that most people don't care about these problems (and again, neither of us have any meaningful data to say that), then they probably don't need to. Though, in fact, Paradox has before fixed/changed things even in the absence of a mass agreement that it had to be done, so who knows?

I guess if you take your car to the dealership to fix the steering drift and the car comes back out of the garage with flat tires that's not necessarily a problem nor needs to be fixed, if enough other people are happy with that. Their opinion that driving with flat tires is fine is no less valid. You don't have higher standards for wanting your wheels to be functioning properly compared to people who are happy making sparks on the road.

If a majority of the playerbase said they wouldn't buy any more DLC until the AI and performance is in order, I feel Paradox wouldn't have these problems get kicked down the road for so long. It's still worth the attempt to speak up here and see if we can't push them to crack down harder on these issues than they have been. And we know at least the AI should be fixable, since modders have been making a lot more progress in just a few months than Paradox has so far.

 

[Nevars]

Oh an empire of necromancer!? I will probably have to buy this even with full price.

Hope you have free patch accompany this dlc tho

 

[Zaacplot]

If you don't like the planet rework you're free to roll back to the patch before it.

I did, and its a much more interesting and satisfying game. I'm happy with that version. Some peope haven't switched or don't want to and are thus frustrated because they are stuck with a broken version.

It's like telling them they have the option between a strawberry ice-cream or vanilla covered in manure.Maybe they like vanilla but don't want to eat the manure.

On a side note, I'd also love to give PD more money in exchange for more content. Maybe they could make their newer DLCs work on the 2.1 version. Or you know, fix the current version.

 

[Tech Noir Synth]

Except we know they are working on programming issues. They just haven't got to the stuff you want yet.

You know if they had not redesigned the entire game with 2.2 and broke crisis micromanagement and AI, they wouldn't even have to spend time on programming issues they created themselves.

You know whats even worse? No one asked for admin cap rework. No one asked for the 3rd Habitat rework. No one asked for changes to edicts and introducing edict capacity, which in turn made Spiritualists complete trash given their now useless bonuses to edict duration.

Everyone was simply asking to be able to play a game that WORKS. How about making sure the Crisis WORKS? Or automation WORKS? Or the economy AI WORKS? Or the military AI doesn't do loops.

Me and my playgroup have not touched the game for months. And without actually fixing the game, this is never going to change.

Some of these changes are simply absurd. Why waste time adding some sort of space whales when your game is broken in so many aspects?

 

[Kayden_II]

I'm sorry, but I can't work out precisely what you are saying here.

01. You have to emphasize that the actual topic of this thread is X ( "Necroids" ), but how about your hypocrisy that you do topic-derailment ( This guy / girl isn't responsible for Stellaris-problem Y or Z ) in order to derail from the original one ( said Stellaris-problem Y or Z ) ?
02. How about that the guy who'd posted this dd is "Grekulf" aka the game-director of Stellaris, so even if this dd is about X ( "Necroids" ), problem Y or Z can still be pointed out since he's exactly the guy who has to know about that ?
03. But you have a point about precision: It's somewhat just a band-aid if someone like me makes Paradox as a whole responsible for the state of this game. And it's an even a bigger problem if someone like you get offended if the wrong people within Paradox get blamed for, whereas even if said problem gets handled carefully then the state of this game will remain as it is. The solution should be easy: A. Transparency from the primary source ( Paradox ): A whole dd or multiple ones in which we get complete and detailed informations about who's who and who's responsible for what. Something like that should also clarify whether there're dedicated guys or girls permanently present that're always working on stuff like the AI, fixes or optimisations ( performance ). That dd(s) shouldn't be restricted to just the Stellaris-team either since I'm certainly sure that for example the higher-ups are influencing the development of Stellaris, too. B. All of that what I've mentioned in point A goes hand in hand with interaction since it's still pointless if we know about responsibilities, but the respective guys and girls don't participate in the respective threads or don't create enough of them on their own, including further participation in them.

 

[LWE]

You know whats even worse? No one asked for admin cap rework.

To be fair, I remember people asking for something like this in the suggestions forum (feeling disempowered about not being able to change the cap) even if Paradox didn’t balance it well.

In fact, there's a lot of stuff similar to the edict rework in the suggestion section, probably giving Paradox... ideas (for instance, another common theme is "We need a Pacifist Fallen Empire type, please Paradox please").

 

[Njordin]

To be honest, while the AI is always improvable and certainly struggle a bit in Stellaris, the game is so complex, with so many layers added since release....

The day I will see a AI on a game sold for 60$ being able to actually be challenging without massive cheats, I will be afraid that the game will spawn a Determined Exterminator instead of crashing...

Glavius AI and Starnet AI mods.
they show its possible to have a competent AI in this game that is at least somewhat challenging.

my bet is that they dont want an harder AI because of target audiences or they really have no ressources allocated to this and/or have no competent AI programmer.

we can only speculate and vent since NO ONE is actually telling us a damn thing regarding AI issues.

 

[Kyoumen]

01. You have to emphasize that the actual topic of this thread is X ( "Necroids" ), but how about your hypocrisy that you do topic-derailment ( This guy / girl isn't responsible for Stellaris-problem Y or Z ) in order to derail from the original one ( said Stellaris-problem Y or Z ) ?

Some of this... really does not seem to have been in that original paragraph, but all right? I was going to take off from this thread - there's not really much to be gained by further arguing these points - but it'd be rude not to address this when I did ask you to clarify what you'd said.

My first post was on page 16 of this thread. The horse had already left the barn at that point. Also the barn had burned down. Also a landslide had buried the farm and barn both. And then an asteroid had struck it. So no, it's really not the same thing to call out people who derailed a thread as it is to derail it in the first place. If it was, it would literally be wrong to call out people on derailing a thread in any circumstance (other than, I suppose, a thread about thread derailment). And that doesn't make a lot of sense, does it?

02. How about that the guy who'd posted this dd is "Grekulf" aka the game-director of Stellaris, so even if this dd is about X ( "Necroids" ), problem Y or Z can still be pointed out since he's exactly the guy who has to know about that ?

The fact he did the original post in the thread does not automatically make any and all topics you wish to bring to his attention on-topic. Like, really, several people have made this point but it doesn't stand up to any scrutiny at all. If he wished Johan a happy birthday in the Paradox General Discussion forum would it then be perfectly acceptable to jump all over him with complaints about Stellaris? Of course not.

If you want to argue that there's nothing wrong with spamming off-topic complaints, then just argue that. This kind of thing is pure sophistry.

03. But you have a point about precision: It's somewhat just a band-aid if someone like me makes Paradox as a whole responsible for the state of this game. And it's an even a bigger problem if someone like you get offended if the wrong people within Paradox get blamed for, whereas even if said problem gets handled carefully then the state of this game will remain as it is. The solution should be easy: A. Transparency from the primary source ( Paradox ): A whole dd or multiple ones in which we get complete and detailed informations about who's who and who's responsible for what. Something like that should also clarify whether there're dedicated guys or girls permanently present that're always working on stuff like the AI, fixes or optimisations ( performance ).

That's up to Paradox, I suppose. Personally, I feel it would be an incredibly bad idea to have this sort of "transparency", as it would create a hit list for whatever people were upset about (and would likely also take a lot of work to keep current).

 

[salmaster]

In the last days I made few posts about the current state of Stellaris and discussed with other people that had same thoughts. I created a discord group, posted the link here and a Paradox employee joined asking what was going on

He wants to address our concerns about the current state of the game and to communicate them to devs/management. He asked me to get as many people as I can in the discord group to discuss about what are the top priority issues for us.

 

[Gromit]

It should be pretty obvious what the concerns are at this point.

 

[Kayden_II]

So no, it's really not the same thing to call out people who derailed a thread as it is to derail it in the first place.

Except if the priority of these people isn't really to discuss the original topic ( "Necroids" ) nor to discuss the second derailment ( "responsibilities" ), but to avoid the first derailment ( "the problematic state of Stellaris" ) with all possible tricks. And to don't make it an original topic in the first place ( paired with no participation in the respective threads on top ) or to derail it with other derailments are such tricks.

If he wished Johan a happy birthday in the Paradox General Discussion forum would it then be perfectly acceptable to jump all over him with complaints about Stellaris?

In the Stellaris-forum, but no later than in a Stellaris-dd like this one, he's in the professional function as "Grekulf" aka the game-director of Stellaris. Acceptable.
The story you try to narrate is that he as Daniel Moregård is personally congratulating Johan on a non-professional topic ( Johans birthday ) that has no relation to Stellaris at all. It wouldn't even matter where this would take place, neither in the Paradox-/ or the Stellaris-forum nor wherever. I get it. That could even be interpreted as harassment, but unfortunately for you, your constructed narrative isn't the case, but the one above. That's the difference between fiction and reality.

Personally, I feel it would be an incredibly bad idea to have this sort of "transparency", as it would create a hit list for whatever people were upset about (and would likely also take a lot of work to keep current).

Or in other words: You want that neither the wrong nor that the right people get blamed for anything. Fine, why not. That's exactly why someone like me outmaneuvers this boogaloo by addressing with "Paradox". Problem solved, but still not the one in regards to the state of the game.