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EU4 - Development Diary - 5th of March 2019

Good morning. As was foretold, I am back to talk about our thoughts on overhauling the map of the Balkans for the big end-of-year European update. Once again I’ll begin with a disclaimer that everything here is very much subject to change as we continue to listen to feedback and iterate on our own ideas throughout the year.

balkans_old.jpg


Behold: the Balkans in patch 1.4. And for reference, here are the Balkans as they are now, in patch 1.28:

balkans_new.jpg


The big change here is simply “more provinces”. Albania has been split up substantially, we have more Aegean Islands, and provinces density in Bulgaria is higher.

There is still, in my opinion, plenty of room for new provinces in Greece and Bulgaria. For the mainland we want to achieve a similar level of density as we see in Anatolia. One of the most obvious things we can do is split the Yanya province by adding Arta, one of the last Epirote cities to fall to the Ottomans. The return of the Epirus tag in 1444 heralds another change: the removal of the Corfu tag, at least in 1444. In the game right now, Corfu is a vassal of Venice and ruled by monarchs who were in fact the independent rulers of the Despotate of Epirus. This will change.

Other possibilities include a province that would more accurately reflect the Ottoman-Moldavian border in Silistria/Basarabia, a further split in the Aegean between Scio and Lesbos, and a separate province centered on the city of Tarnovo in Bulgaria.

greece_suggestion.jpg


This suggestion by Mingmung, and others very much like it, show a step in the right direction. Beyond what I’ve already mentioned, I like the idea of splitting Cephalonia from the Corfu province to add a little tactical depth to Epirus, as well as the addition of Corinth in the south. We are however unlikely to add extra provinces on Cyprus or Crete: outside of very large islands like Sardinia and Sicily we prefer to keep such places restrained to single provinces.

Moving north-west, there’s a lot that could be done in Serbia, Bosnia, and the Dalmatian coast. There’s room for a few more provinces of course, though not quite so many as we might need further south.

balkans_suggestion.jpg


This very aesthetically pleasing suggestion by ootats has a lot going for it. Representing Herzegovina/the Duchy of Saint Sava as a Bosnian vassal in 1444 is an interesting possibility. It also puts the province density on a level similar to that of Hungary, which I feel is a good target to aim for in the region. It is however unlikely that we’ll be adding both the Venetian provinces of Scutari and Cataro.

We’ve been reading your comments on the previous dev diary, and they’ve provoked a lot of discussion on Team Content Design. One of the results of these discussions is that we’re more open to a Como province that would split away from the northern part of what is now Milan. When the time comes for implementation it's certainly something we're willing to try out.

And that's all for today! Next week I invite you to join me on a wild ride through the confusing nightmarish mess that was Early Modern Germany. Until then, I look forward to more of your comments and suggestions.
 
Pls add the Latin Empire as a formable nation
Doubt they will the Latin empire saw itself as a catholic incarnation of the byzantine (or rather roman) empire and as a general rule they stay away from tags with names containing their government type.
Can we see some Danzig-type event for Transylvania? I don't think I've ever seen it in a single game.
Sounds awesome, the events leading up to the partition of Hungary should be handled better.
then explain kurdish majority in southeastern anatolia. they were not majority at there in 1444. at that time shia turks and armenians were majority while arabs and kurds were minority in southeastern anatolia. kurdish dominance starts with religious conflict between the turkic dynasties ottomans and safavids in 16th century. there was population exchange between sunni kurds of northwestern iran and shia turks of southeastern anatolia. both empires forced them leave their homelands.

2000s diyarbakir mostly inhabited by kurds but this was not a case in 1444.
this is 2000s kurdish map not 1444s.

View attachment 458402
Two wrongs don't make a right.
Maybe two province islands can be exceptions.
As I said previously I don't think the midditerranean mechant republics should even fucntion with the same trade league mechanic as the free cities of the HRE. Perhaps Cyprus should simply be a tributary of sort to Venice?
 
So Serbia is losing coastline?
It should for historical accuracy to be honest. Historically, Venice held this coast and it was very important for the development of Balkan countries. Also they supplied the Montenegrins against the Ottomans, causing Montenegro to never be fully annexed (which should be represented in some way). I know it ruins the strategy to escape to Italy, but it's not hard to get coastline, as Bosnia (or more precisely Duchy of Saint Sava) now gets coastline (If you look more closely, you'll see it, and also Herceg Novi is of high maritime importance to modern Montenegro.
 
About the Eastern Balkans, I think the changes you mentioned are indeed the most important ones, and I agree with the decision not to split the two islands, as never in the time period did two powers coexist in peace on them (nor would it make sense to). Two suggestions however that you didn't mention but I find quite important too are the Edirne and Macedonia splits. Edirne is an unreasonably large province, whose three parts have diverging economies, cultures and histories, and its split would also improve the military game. Macedonia includes Thessaloniki, the biggest historically Ottoman trading hub in the Balkans. There is also a very important gameplay reason for this split. After the Jews were expelled from Spain and for the duration of the timeline, Thessaloniki was majority-Jewish. Representing that with event would be a very good historical way to let the player to play around with the now almost dead Jewish religion.
 
Doubt they will the Latin empire saw itself as a catholic incarnation of the byzantine (or rather roman) empire and as a general rule they stay away from tags with names containing their government type.

Sounds awesome, the events leading up to the partition of Hungary should be handled better.

Two wrongs don't make a right.

As I said previously I don't think the midditerranean mechant republics should even fucntion with the same trade league mechanic as the free cities of the HRE. Perhaps Cyprus should simply be a tributary of sort to Venice?
Then call her name Latins like the Ottoman Empire with Ottomans
 
An Edirne and Uskup-split are quite needed, yes. I hope they do so. Uskup can best be split into a Bulgarian Köstendil (taking a part of Sofya, too) and a Serbian Uskup.
 
The forum itself is actually an accurate representation of the Balkans: a minority of users are responsible for vast majority of cultural tensions and nationalism on the forum.
 
About magiar culture group, think slovaks should be there cause historical reasons, and that we should have some kind of szekely/szaszc culture, while transilvanian goes to romanian group.

Slovak should definitely start as an accepted culture but I don't see a reason why Czechs and Poles should have a debuff on conquering Slovakia, there was a real chance that Poland could conquer Slovakia if Habsburgs hadn't inherited the Hungarian throne and in that case they would not have much trouble assimilating Slovaks into Poland, at the timeline Poles and Slovaks were even more similar than today, the same applies to Czechs and Slovaks

also, Nitra should not have cores in Slovakia at the start of the timeline, it was a non-existent entity for at least 300 years, the cores should be triggered by Slovak nationalists

Neither Upper Hungary had that much Slovak majority. Also I see here others want to switch transylvanian to the romanian group wtf?---Hungary is already cropped ethnically to modern borders which is pretty ahistorical during the 1444-1821 timeline

I agree that Slovak borders in EU4 are exaggerated but the land of modern-day Slovakia still had a Slovak majority at the time, maybe adding some Hungarian provinces to the southern part of the region of Slovakia could solve this
 
Representing that with event would be a very good historical way to let the player to play around with the now almost dead Jewish religion.
That does sound like a good idea.
Same for other migration events as proposed earlier in the thread.

Though, there should be a way to bar people from entry, especially in provinces not bordering wasteland. Since it's not realistic for a country to just let some people it doesn't want to enter settle in a province.
 
About magiar culture group, think slovaks should be there cause historical reasons, and that we should have some kind of szekely/szaszc culture, while transilvanian goes to romanian group.
I know Slovak culture is in culture group with hungarians (Carpathian one) for game mechanics reasons, but it's bit stupid. Hungary should have Slovak as accepted culture, however Slovak culture should be in West Slavic group because of language - Slovakian is quite well understood by Poles, Czechs and vice versa - they don't need any translator to communicate and they understand themselves with no problem - they basically are the same (nowadays Poles and Slovaks understand themselves better than Czechs - because of Czech language reform when they wanted to distinct from other west Slavs and create unique national culture that'd chain ppl 2gether). Devs should accept the situation as it is - Hungary is not a multi-cultural nation and Hungary'd have easier task in age of reformation with unifiying culture. (Imagine situation when Prussian culture belongs to West Slavic group because of long shared history - it would be very stupid same as it's here). If someone wants to improve Hungary and their culture take a look here and get some inspiration
Jezyki_i_dialekty_Europa_Srodkowo_Wsch..jpg

(Languages and dialects of Hungary - in purple)
PS there'd be more cultures if you'd put in game cultures representing dialects - it's present in EU4's Germany area (12 cultures in Germanic culture group), but east from Germany the cultures seem shallow - you put only hungarian or polish (and 2 or 3 additional and that's it...), but as u see on this map even nowadays there are remainings of old dialects and culture gropus.
Please reconsider culture changing.
 
Cool the person that disagrees even hasn't read it lol, X appeared after 1 sec after posting thx.
 
Cool, but still more interested in what the dlc is going to be focused on.

Also hope some tweaking to merchant republics, maybe a liberty desire reduction and a raising of the dev cap for marches.

Going to be even harder to manage vassals as venice with all of that new Balkan clay.
 
I am hopeful, yet scared.
I wish this update to add depth to Europe, but I am afraid that it will just be new provinces and development adjustments.
Maybe a few new estates?
But will we have new mechanics?
I'd imagine some sort of squabble for the Mediterranean, with Venice, Genoa and eventual maritime Republic fighting for thessalocracy
Some mechanic to show the eventual loss of importance of the Mediterranean (because in the end game Venice and Genoa still make ton of money, it is just that the norf gets richer, while we should have an actual decay in the south.)
A more dynamic development system, maybe?
Maybe, a better HRE?
Deeper wars? Deeper dinastical systems?
Reinvented catholicism?


I shall repeat myself.
I have hope.

They are literally spending an entire year just for this single DLC that will be released at the end of the year. I doubt they'd spend so much time just for map updates.
Also, they already listed all their plans for this DLC in an earlier DD.

I'm here for Balkans Nationalism guys.

Funnily enough, people who mock Balkan Nationalism are nowadays are even worse than any Balkan nationalists here :rolleyes:

Cool, but still more interested in what the dlc is going to be focused on.

Europe, Catholicism, and HRE. They talked about it several DDs ago.
 
In my opinion, perhaps the best thing about this diary is that the dev team seems to have come around on Corfu being independent in 1444. It is ahistorical, it is an unnecessary nerf for Venice and the fact that it was being kept in only because of the achievement was rather frustrating.

And to add my two cents, I certainly like the direction of the other (possible) map changes, new provinces are awesome and I'm very much looking forward to next week's diary.