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CK2 Dev Diary #33: Let's Talk About Sects

Hi everyone!

It’s time to spill the beans on some actual content in the upcoming expansion Monks and Mystics, which we announced last Friday at our Fan Gathering (I hope all the good folks who showed up had a fun time - I sure did!)

The genesis for this expansion came about a long time ago, when I started thinking about secret societies and conspiracies and wrote it down as one of several outlines for a couple of “mini-expansions”. Now, for various reasons we never went ahead with that expansion model and most of the ideas have, by now, been used in bigger expansions. However, the concept of fraternities stuck and the time is now auspicious!

The core feature of Monks and Mystics is something we simply call “Societies”. Societies are groups of like-minded characters who are working together for personal and mutual profit. Some Societies are perfectly legit (that’s the “Monks” part in Monks and Mystics); others are perhaps viewed with some suspicion (e.g. Alchemists) but are hardly criminal. Finally, there is the subversive kind, of which the Demon Worshippers are certainly the worst. (Such shadowy and outright evil cults can be actively combated through a new job that can be given to the Court Chaplain.)

The basic loop goes like this; you put out word that you’d like to join a specific Society. After a while (immediately, for open Societies), you will be approached and offered membership as a novice. At this lowest rank, you usually don’t get many new abilities (but if the Society is secret you can now at least see the leader and the other members.) Now and then, you will be given missions that will further the goals of the Society. If you complete them, it will give you more power within the Society, which should eventually allow you to “level up” in Rank. The new Rank will give you access to at least one new special ability. Using these abilities (they are basically just a special type of Decision) can also increase your power within the Society, and so it goes, all the way up to being the leader of the whole Society.

benedictine_mission.png


Of course, members of the same Society tend to like each other, and will sometimes (depending on the nature of the Society) even be obedient towards members of higher rank; or at least not hostile. This creates a whole new way of discouraging factions and pave the way for loyal vassals (or even a loyal Pope!)

That’s all for now. In a later dev diary I will go through the actual Societies and talk about their particular powers and abilities...

Be sure to check out the funny teaser trailer for Monks and Mystics, and remember the Livestreams later today, where Emil and Steven’s quest for the best German cookie continues, followed by the Norman adventures of Chris, David and yours truly!

devil_power.png
 
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Last screenshot is a joke, right? :D
 
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I think the GoT modders are gonna love this one.
 
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Right now, supernatural events are all questionable in nature – they might be supernatural, but other reasonable explanations are also possible. Something outright supernatural like performing magic spells is on a whole nother level. That's not to say that it's bad and a lot of people may enjoy it, but it might be a good idea to make sure that the granularity of the option settings reflect this.

I wouldn't say Immortality is questionable, for example, or Satan regrowing your limbs. But if you're ok with killing Cthulhu or being the Antichrist and rationalizing it away as madness or superstition then surely you can apply the same to casting a spell? You're just nuts, perform a useless ritual, and then find a stray cat which makes you feel better about yourself rather than summoning a demonic familiar.
 
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Interesting to see a new graphic design for that event. I wonder if all events will be changed to a new format.

Those are new Mission events, old events look the same as ever.

Remeber when Paradox said "We wont make naval warfare dlc because it would be unrealistic" but it seems they dont give a **** about realism anymore. I mean cmon devil worshipping, "summon a familiar" and all that other supernatural crap ? Yeah sure, thats "realistic" but god forbid they add something useful like naval warfare or rework the imperial system.

No one said Devil worshipers having actual powers is realistic, so no need to argue against that. I do think most people will find them fun since I can see most people keep supernatural events turned on. On the other hand, the problem with adding naval combat is neither the game or the AI is built around it and it'd be more than a DLC's amount of work to add it.

Will we be able to become demon worshippers ourselves?

Sure.
 
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I have photographic memory, I am not wrong, but I haven't got the time to dig up a single quote in tens of thousands of pages of text for you. But iff just just use your eyes here on this page you'll see the request to be able to shut the more directly supernatural events of while leaving the ambiguous ones on time and time again, now you can either listen to your customers or not that's up to you.
Also do something about you attitude, you represent a company for crying out loud.

I'm sorry that pointing out your are factually incorrect is upsetting you, but part of having adult conversations is being able to accept being wrong gracefully and move on with the conversation.
 
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- aha, and immortality potion is just a placebo effect too. Its always nice to see a developer with moderator powers that uses ad hominem, trolling and strawmen when talking to their customers in order to defend his position.

You're misunderstanding my post in several ways, please re-read the conversation.

I'm not saying they are placebos, it was me who said immortality and limb-regrowing were un-ambiguously fantasy - and immortality wasn't part of this conversation thread. I'm saying if you're ok with the possession events being seen as just crazy people I don't see why you wouldn't be ok with magic events also being crazy people. And if you don't like magic events, turn them off - it shouldn't be a problem.

And btw knowing or not knowing about that event doesnt make TheDungen any less "of an authority", as you dont have to be expert on all existing events in order to be able to distinguish high fantasy content from normal content.

When you base your argument on comparing new events to old events, actually knowing about the relevant old events is an important point. At no point have I said these are not fantasy events, so identifying them as such is not an achievement.

- second one is pure fantasy on the other hand.

Right, so not "everything we've seen", which was the specific point I was countering.
 
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I don't know, Paradox! Why are you suddenly producing all of these fantastical nonsense DLCs? Secret societies and cults exist, but it's not as if they have a commanding influence on the world in any way. That's just conspiracy stuff. Next you'll be alleging that these secret societies meddle in video game development as well. No evidence for it. Nope, none at all. Don't bother looking for it. Especially don't publish any of this supposed evidence. Our esteemed and ancient, uh, 'organisation' suggests that you quietly go back to making naval battles and Aztec invasions. Otherwise, well, any number of bad things could happen...

May the Father of Understanding guide you.
 
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No immortal isn't because that was added after the rule, as for satan regrowing your limbs I have never seen that event. Also Paradox are the ones who first said that the events weren't actually supernatural just interpreted as such. I like the old "supernatural" insanity events. But stuff like immortals and witchcraft not so much.
And there's a massive difference between a epileptic person being seen as possessed, and someone who actually runs around casting spells. The old events were written with the intention of being able to be read either way (why else did paradox hold that they weren't actually supernatural for so long?) while the new ones are totally up front about being intended to be read as actually being magic.

You've never heard of the Demon child events? I'd say they were one of the most well-known event chains, if you've missed it then possibly you are less of an authority on previous events than you think.

You also mention being possessed - when the voice of Jesus is granting you +30 Martial then either it's a crazy guy with a strong placebo effect, -in which case why doesn't the same apply to "magic"?- or there's been magic all along.

Thus far we haven't seen anything except fantasy content.

You've seen two screenshots. What's so fantastical in the first?
 
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FIRST
(sorry)
Also, the lack of anything about gnostics is troubling. I wanted to see them very badly.
 
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So why don't you? Because like I said eidetic memory I know that I am not wrong.

Please stop. Firstly, the fact that the Demon child event is unquestioningly fantasy is surely beyond dispute. Secondly, your conveniently unsourced (although shouldn't you perfectly recall where you read it, making it easy to find?) statement cannot possibly have covered said event because you stated you were not aware of it, so if it had ever been said not to have been fantasy your perfect memory would have been aware of the event .

I had not been answering the rest of your post because I tried to talk to you about where the cutoff for fantasy/questionable fantasy was earlier in the thread and you ignored it to dig in and tell me I was wrong/revisionist at various points, so I didn't see any point in trying again. However, no, we will not make a separate category for "supernatural" events.
 
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Is there any cost to being in a society? I don't think every ruler in Europe was part of one, so are there downsides?
monks might be celibates
alchemists might get lunatic
demon worshippers get burned at the stake
 
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Unless you can present a case where limb regrowth has a plausible explanation, I don't see how you can claim it word against word. The limb/maiming/castration recovery events are all in there regardless of if you're aware of them or not and are unquestionably fantasy - that is my proof, not my word. Even if you can somehow rationalize it having a mundane interrogation, we come back to my original point that if you can explain that away then surely you can do the same with "magic".
 
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Remeber when Paradox said "We wont make naval warfare dlc because it would be unrealistic" but it seems they dont give a **** about realism anymore. I mean cmon devil worshipping, "summon a familiar" and all that other supernatural crap ? Yeah sure, thats "realistic" but god forbid they add something useful like naval warfare or rework the imperial system.
Paradox never, I repeat, never, said that. They said they did not add it because it was hard to do it right. It was the forumites who debated endlessly over whether naval battles existed or not.
 
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