I'd say gas warfare could be a pretty big deal in Vicky, just so long as you had it and your enemy didn't! Playing as Russia in the 1914 scenario, the moment Germany got hold of gas warfare you're armies melted away in a matter of months.
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I'd say gas warfare could be a pretty big deal in Vicky, just so long as you had it and your enemy didn't! Playing as Russia in the 1914 scenario, the moment Germany got hold of gas warfare you're armies melted away in a matter of months.
Not having played the original Victoria I can only answer for Vicky 2. Naval supremacy will never win you much warscore (blockades are worth something, but generally about 0.1% per port; I've never seen a naval battle generate more than 0.1), but France won't be able to threaten Siam's Asian possessions if it's denied access to the seas.
Gas warfare is a constant +4 modifier (reduced to +3 in 1.2) to combat rolls. That's a pretty big bonus, and combined with attacker dig-in penalties (dependent on tech, but up to -6) can pretty much guarantee a very bloody battle if on the offensive. It doesn't help that Siam lags France on army techs in general.
I think the most worrying thing about the war with France is that you also have those other wars going on. You are more evenly matched now, but need to be able to focus on the French front.
Nothing like a protracted war to draw in unwelcome visitors... 
Those French stacks put in perspective your little Baltic adventure; let's hope you can finish off the Ottoman job soon enough. And thank the fact that this is 1.1, in 1.2 France would have probably intervened on the Ottoman side... imagine if all those troops in Algeria could pay you a visit in Ottoman Africa
Those French stacks put in perspective your little Baltic adventure; let's hope you can finish off the Ottoman job soon enough. And thank the fact that this is 1.1, in 1.2 France would have probably intervened on the Ottoman side... imagine if all those troops in Algeria could pay you a visit in Ottoman Africa
The French might have intervened earlier, depends how much they like the Ottomans or the Prussians in 1.2. Though being French, shruggs shoulders ...
They've probably got all the tactical bonuses and Siam does not. That'll give them an advantage. At sea, once you have your dreadnaughts, their navy will evaporate.
Worst case scenario, the other Great Powers pile in against badboy Siam.
At least you have the hordes of Asia.
They've probably got all the tactical bonuses and Siam does not. That'll give them an advantage. At sea, once you have your dreadnaughts, their navy will evaporate.
Worst case scenario, the other Great Powers pile in against badboy Siam.
At least you have the hordes of Asia.
Just read through this in two sittings. You've done a great job, it's always interesting to read a well explained walkthrough of a game.
I'm surprised to see you in 4th place with a score of ~3000. In my current game as Denmark, I'm in 9th place with a similar score in 1922, with 2000 points between me and GP status. I wonder if they changed the scoring system for 1.2
I'm surprised to see you in 4th place with a score of ~3000. In my current game as Denmark, I'm in 9th place with a similar score in 1922, with 2000 points between me and GP status. I wonder if they changed the scoring system for 1.2
I'm playing 1.2 also, and by the 1920s the GPs were locked in at several thousand score each, and 9th on was thousands of points behind that. Of course by that point the game had slowed to the point where I could only run it on speed 2 without crazy mouse lag, so I'm starting again with the Age of Colonialism mod which I've heard helps with that late game slow down.
It really does help. And it prevents the ridiculous amount of colonial troops problem that someone mentioned about the French raising troops in Africa. I think it's the best mod out at the moment. Makes 1.2 very fun.
And yes, 1.2 does seem to have a different scoring method than 1.1. Maybe industry is worth more points in 1.2.
First, a Welcome to Farecoal, who I forgot to welcome in my brief earlier reply!
Yeah, that's the fun stuff! But it all depends who you're fighting, right?
Ahh, yes... A good assessment on all sides, I figure! If I can prize the Arabian provinces away from them, I'll let that be my terms. Otherwise, White Peace I suppose. Whatever I can get.
Prussia is scraps for dividing at this point in this alternate history, but yes -- she's been rescued by events, and will live to fight another day!
It's possible, I suppose, but their ambition will always be tempered by its big neighbor France. I doubt they'll be able to expand while France remains the big cat in the litter.
Yeah, France is a monster (like she is in most Paradox games). You'll see me scout their African colonies, like I did in the last war, but you may expect that I'll also find similar opportunities and success.
You'll see me find a couple chinks in their armor, though... Next update, I think.
Hmm... I think a couple other people answered your question, too, but in my judgment naval supremacy is just as important in both. It was major in V1 also, though in both V1 and V2 there are ways of avoiding the enemy supremacy if you're clever (and the AI can't really do this -- only a human player). I'm thinking back to Fire Warms, where in early wars Prussia had to sneak around the seas, then eventually a kind of stalemate was reached against the British Royal Navy. Then, late in the game Prussia had to deal with the USA, which had overwhelming superiority, and it was back to sneaking around again. To be honest, I don't remember gas warfare in the original. I never played V:Revolutions, and the only patch I played was 1.04c I think, and so gas may have been in one of those, but I don't think it was in the version I played. Gas is a pretty big deal in this one, but only for that brief period of time when there's an imbalance between one side that has gas and the other side that can't defend. If a country stagnates and never makes it to gas defense, they're pretty much screwed.
Maybe that's why I don't remember gas from V1 -- by the time gas was a factor (the old V1 ended in 1920) a dominant country would already be pretty dominant, and I only played major powers (well, okay.... I did play Afghanistan once, but I didn't finish that game).
Ahh, you recall to my mind Quirinus' The World is Not Enough, where he played out some hideous WW I battles with unbelievable slaughter! I don't know why these naval battles -- even major ones -- never generate more than +.1 warscore. I hope they fix that in the new patch (did I see that the new patch was out for open beta, or did I imagine that? -- can anyone tell if this is fixed?).
Well, yes, but... Here's the thing that makes it not matter much. The fields of potential battle against France are so limited that I can take my time. I can't do anything to them except in limited quarters, and they can't get past my navy to do anything to me, except in those same limited quarters, so...
And there you've clenched it -- what other mayhem may my Badboy have stirred up? I do worry about this. But only once a week. In-game time. Yeah, it sounds like 1.2 is more realistic in the intervention aspect. No sense starting a new war when there's one already underway, and then it would have changed things completely and I'd have to settle for scraps.
If that happened, I'd definitely NEED the hordes of Asia!
Thanks, Salik! Welcome! Sounds like the score is a versional mismatch, as you suggest.
Welcome, Quetzilla! I don't notice the lag so much, because I play on low speed anyway. Sometimes even I find it frustrating, but I'm just determined to get to the end, so I plow on through.
The colonial troops are realistic in a way -- you have large numbers of conscriptable masses in the colonies (here, as well as in colonies), but the quality of those troops was not always as high as that of home-grown troops. Seems like that was represented in V1 by having a colonial unit type, but I don't remember for sure.
All right... Thank you again, everybody, for your readership and comments! I'll be working on an update over the next couple of days, so be on the lookout!
Rensslaer
Yeah, that's the fun stuff!
But it all depends who you're fighting, right?Perhaps your Dutch expedition will fare better in defensive positions, letting the French break themselves against the Siamese firestorm. Or perhaps you need to pull out those troops before they get overwhelmed.
Naval supremacy is good: if nothing else, it should keep those 150,000 French troops in Algeria - I'm assuming that's not an area you want to be fighting in, anyway.
So, now that the French have jumped you (and have been jumped by half of Asia in turn, it seems), what will be your goal in this war? Simply a white peace, or something more ambitious? The game is almost over, now is the time to start thinking of Siam's legacy.
Ahh, yes... A good assessment on all sides, I figure!
If I can prize the Arabian provinces away from them, I'll let that be my terms. Otherwise, White Peace I suppose. Whatever I can get.And so Prussia is once again enjoying a DeuxExMachina (like in 1762).
Prussia is scraps for dividing at this point in this alternate history, but yes -- she's been rescued by events, and will live to fight another day!
It's possible, I suppose, but their ambition will always be tempered by its big neighbor France. I doubt they'll be able to expand while France remains the big cat in the litter.
Yeah, France is a monster (like she is in most Paradox games). You'll see me scout their African colonies, like I did in the last war, but you may expect that I'll also find similar opportunities and success.
You'll see me find a couple chinks in their armor, though... Next update, I think.
Hmm... I think a couple other people answered your question, too, but in my judgment naval supremacy is just as important in both. It was major in V1 also, though in both V1 and V2 there are ways of avoiding the enemy supremacy if you're clever (and the AI can't really do this -- only a human player). I'm thinking back to Fire Warms, where in early wars Prussia had to sneak around the seas, then eventually a kind of stalemate was reached against the British Royal Navy. Then, late in the game Prussia had to deal with the USA, which had overwhelming superiority, and it was back to sneaking around again.
To be honest, I don't remember gas warfare in the original. I never played V:Revolutions, and the only patch I played was 1.04c I think, and so gas may have been in one of those, but I don't think it was in the version I played. Gas is a pretty big deal in this one, but only for that brief period of time when there's an imbalance between one side that has gas and the other side that can't defend. If a country stagnates and never makes it to gas defense, they're pretty much screwed. Maybe that's why I don't remember gas from V1 -- by the time gas was a factor (the old V1 ended in 1920) a dominant country would already be pretty dominant, and I only played major powers (well, okay.... I did play Afghanistan once, but I didn't finish that game).
Ahh, you recall to my mind Quirinus' The World is Not Enough, where he played out some hideous WW I battles with unbelievable slaughter! I don't know why these naval battles -- even major ones -- never generate more than +.1 warscore. I hope they fix that in the new patch (did I see that the new patch was out for open beta, or did I imagine that? -- can anyone tell if this is fixed?).
Well, yes, but...
Here's the thing that makes it not matter much. The fields of potential battle against France are so limited that I can take my time. I can't do anything to them except in limited quarters, and they can't get past my navy to do anything to me, except in those same limited quarters, so...Nothing like a protracted war to draw in unwelcome visitors...
Those French stacks put in perspective your little Baltic adventure; let's hope you can finish off the Ottoman job soon enough. And thank the fact that this is 1.1, in 1.2 France would have probably intervened on the Ottoman side... imagine if all those troops in Algeria could pay you a visit in Ottoman Africa
And there you've clenched it -- what other mayhem may my Badboy have stirred up?
I do worry about this. But only once a week. In-game time. Yeah, it sounds like 1.2 is more realistic in the intervention aspect. No sense starting a new war when there's one already underway, and then it would have changed things completely and I'd have to settle for scraps.If that happened, I'd definitely NEED the hordes of Asia!
Thanks, Salik! Welcome! Sounds like the score is a versional mismatch, as you suggest.
Welcome, Quetzilla! I don't notice the lag so much, because I play on low speed anyway. Sometimes even I find it frustrating, but I'm just determined to get to the end, so I plow on through.
The colonial troops are realistic in a way -- you have large numbers of conscriptable masses in the colonies (here, as well as in colonies), but the quality of those troops was not always as high as that of home-grown troops. Seems like that was represented in V1 by having a colonial unit type, but I don't remember for sure.
All right... Thank you again, everybody, for your readership and comments! I'll be working on an update over the next couple of days, so be on the lookout!
Rensslaer
I started reading this AAR back when you started it, but for some reason lost track of it some time ago. Two days ago I found it again and have caught up by now. I must say that i'm really impressed by your playing style, coming so far with a minor country. Plus, this AAR is indeed a source of knowledge, like others said before. Great work, Rennslaer!
In the war with France, the same pattern continued -- we were outnumbered on land, and quite helpless with regard to offensive moves against most of their territory. But at sea we held the advantage, though not an overwhelming one.
A fleet of French cruisers caught an ironclad fleet off Arabia, and we were forced to withdraw them quickly, or risk losing some or all of them. They sheltered in Oman.
Around the world, we were probing for French vulnerabilities. In the French colony of Pondicherry, in India, we found they had an unassailable garrison. We scouted the Gold Coast of Africa, and found large armies guarding their colonies there, and occupying the Dutch enclave there.
At al-Ahsa, in Arabia, the French had advanced upon our first siege line, where we had moved into their desert. We'd thought, "Who would have massive armies in Arabia? And besides, haven't we advanced in technology enough to compete now?" These thoughts were foolish, and we would soon be pushed out.
Of course, our thought was to get out of one or both of our wars, as quickly as possible. Primarily because of our blockades -- our naval superiority -- the French had a negative warscore against us. But not enough so to convince them to give up their war -- they knew they had the upper hand overall.
The Ottoman war was going very much in our favor, of course. But we had asked for alot -- had significant wargoals -- and so we were not yet to the point where we could demand what we needed from them to avoid embarrassment. Still, I did not consider this a mistake -- we would have our demands met, eventually. I was convinced of it.
There were, in fact, areas where we could make small territorial gains against the French, even if Arabia seemed a tough nut. The Belearic Islands off the coast of Spain were ungarrisoned, and so we landed there. Immediately, we separated off other troops to go occupy other islands, such as Corsica.
We also targeted the small island off the coast of Madagascar they called Bourbon, just as in the last war. The French garrison there was small, and we hoped we might prevail.
Though we were pushed back, out of Arabia, the battle was not so one sided as to make us fear greatly. To the north, we defeated the Turks at Mendeli, in a decisive battle which gained much warscore.
Edessa and Salonika, in Balkan Macedonia, were two of the battles which still raged fiercely against the Ottomans. They outnumbered us, but they were taking higher casualties. It was only a matter of time. But how much? Our occupations were going slowly, because the Ottomans had enough armies to tie our forces down, preventing sieges from proceeding. We finally moved on to siege the Turkish capital at Istanbul. The battle at Ankara still smoldered.
At sea, we were really wearing the French transports off Gabes down, and would soon see some sink.
Utrecht proved a disaster, as you might have expected. It was also badly managed by us, in that we should have retreated before being forced to -- that would have allowed us to retreat to safety, rather than into the hands of another French army.
Could we win in battle against the French? It seemed hopeless, but then.... Perhaps we had just faced bad odds at Utrecht, and that was not the seal of our fate.
The French met us in the Omani deserts, and again we were taking significant casualties. But with reinforcements nearby, we felt all was not lost. We, perhaps, could wear them down.
The French also moved against us from the other direction, out of Arabia. Into Palestine they surged, and began taking provinces. This was not good. We brought troops in from Irak to try to build up a defensive line at Amman, or perhaps Jerusalem. Where could we stop them, we wondered?
We also discovered the light bulb -- a major development! This would allow us to build electric gears, which were desperately needed for our high-tech ventures (including telephones, I think).
Not until late October were both battles in Macedonia decided in our favor. Both were utter slaughters for the Turks. But they had served the purpose of keeping our armies distracted, and preventing provinces from falling to occupation. Now we could finish off their armies and begin to occupy, but our need to finish this war was dire!
It seemed we had built up enough victories to force them to the peace table, but they seemed obstinate, still.
Keep plugging, I said. Keep wearing down their armies. Keep gaining control over their lands. It was now only a matter of weeks, and then...
A fleet of French cruisers caught an ironclad fleet off Arabia, and we were forced to withdraw them quickly, or risk losing some or all of them. They sheltered in Oman.
Around the world, we were probing for French vulnerabilities. In the French colony of Pondicherry, in India, we found they had an unassailable garrison. We scouted the Gold Coast of Africa, and found large armies guarding their colonies there, and occupying the Dutch enclave there.
At al-Ahsa, in Arabia, the French had advanced upon our first siege line, where we had moved into their desert. We'd thought, "Who would have massive armies in Arabia? And besides, haven't we advanced in technology enough to compete now?" These thoughts were foolish, and we would soon be pushed out.
Of course, our thought was to get out of one or both of our wars, as quickly as possible. Primarily because of our blockades -- our naval superiority -- the French had a negative warscore against us. But not enough so to convince them to give up their war -- they knew they had the upper hand overall.
The Ottoman war was going very much in our favor, of course. But we had asked for alot -- had significant wargoals -- and so we were not yet to the point where we could demand what we needed from them to avoid embarrassment. Still, I did not consider this a mistake -- we would have our demands met, eventually. I was convinced of it.
There were, in fact, areas where we could make small territorial gains against the French, even if Arabia seemed a tough nut. The Belearic Islands off the coast of Spain were ungarrisoned, and so we landed there. Immediately, we separated off other troops to go occupy other islands, such as Corsica.
We also targeted the small island off the coast of Madagascar they called Bourbon, just as in the last war. The French garrison there was small, and we hoped we might prevail.
Though we were pushed back, out of Arabia, the battle was not so one sided as to make us fear greatly. To the north, we defeated the Turks at Mendeli, in a decisive battle which gained much warscore.
Edessa and Salonika, in Balkan Macedonia, were two of the battles which still raged fiercely against the Ottomans. They outnumbered us, but they were taking higher casualties. It was only a matter of time. But how much? Our occupations were going slowly, because the Ottomans had enough armies to tie our forces down, preventing sieges from proceeding. We finally moved on to siege the Turkish capital at Istanbul. The battle at Ankara still smoldered.
At sea, we were really wearing the French transports off Gabes down, and would soon see some sink.
Utrecht proved a disaster, as you might have expected. It was also badly managed by us, in that we should have retreated before being forced to -- that would have allowed us to retreat to safety, rather than into the hands of another French army.
Could we win in battle against the French? It seemed hopeless, but then.... Perhaps we had just faced bad odds at Utrecht, and that was not the seal of our fate.
The French met us in the Omani deserts, and again we were taking significant casualties. But with reinforcements nearby, we felt all was not lost. We, perhaps, could wear them down.
The French also moved against us from the other direction, out of Arabia. Into Palestine they surged, and began taking provinces. This was not good. We brought troops in from Irak to try to build up a defensive line at Amman, or perhaps Jerusalem. Where could we stop them, we wondered?
We also discovered the light bulb -- a major development! This would allow us to build electric gears, which were desperately needed for our high-tech ventures (including telephones, I think).
Not until late October were both battles in Macedonia decided in our favor. Both were utter slaughters for the Turks. But they had served the purpose of keeping our armies distracted, and preventing provinces from falling to occupation. Now we could finish off their armies and begin to occupy, but our need to finish this war was dire!
It seemed we had built up enough victories to force them to the peace table, but they seemed obstinate, still.
Keep plugging, I said. Keep wearing down their armies. Keep gaining control over their lands. It was now only a matter of weeks, and then...
You'd think the Turks would be willing to call for peace after having most of their country occupied and their armies massacred in battle.
The war against France is not looking pretty. Those casualty figures, particularly the Battle of Utrecht, show you're not really capable of hurting them, and overwhelming them with numbers isn't really an option against one of the big European states.
Naval dominance should see you through the worst of it, but I'm wondering if that cliffhanger you've left us with is due to someone else jumping in against you. A containment war against Russia would be nasty, one against the UK potentially disastrous.
Naval dominance should see you through the worst of it, but I'm wondering if that cliffhanger you've left us with is due to someone else jumping in against you. A containment war against Russia would be nasty, one against the UK potentially disastrous.
How is that French troops can march through Ottoman territory? Have they military access? Unless they have, they have no business being there.
Siam needs dreadnaughts.
Invade France itself.
Siam needs dreadnaughts.
Invade France itself.
The cliffhanger is troubling... let's hope nothing too serious o
Try to get some dreadnoughts to blockade France, and perhaps wear down its colonies...
oTry to get some dreadnoughts to blockade France, and perhaps wear down its colonies...
Thanks, Sactwu! Welcome! Great to have you back. I've been having a blast with the playing style. Much more excitement to come!
Well, what else am I supposed to do with my troops!
In all seriousness, I think I have sufficient concentration where I need it. In many places I'm beyond my Support Limit because I need to be, but to go too far past, I'm not sure how much I would gain.You know... As I'm looking at the screenshots -- all of them, not just the ones I've shown you -- I realize that I'm not sure I have even 50% of their land occupied, and many of their major cities remain free. Plus, they seem to have large armies in a number of places. I don't even know how that's possible, as successful as my war has been, but there they are!
Yeah, I'm not at all confident about the war with France. Not yet, anyway. Not likely to be.
I don't even want to think about an expansion of my war. I should be expecting it, surely, but then again my intent was to test the boundaries of the Infamy AI, right?
Yes, indeed. Need dreadnoughts. Now! Actually, I think you may be seeing a province that Siam (blue) has taken from the Ottomans and thinking the French have come through there (like it's French blue, which it looks like too). No, the French are coming into Siamese territory through their colony in Hedjaz.
Oh oh, sounds like the other shoe dropped.
No comment!
Yeah. If the Brits come in, it will get a bit sticky.
The cliffhanger is troubling... let's hope nothing too serious
Try to get some dreadnoughts to blockade France, and perhaps wear down its colonies...
You should see reasonably soon -- update is more or less on the way this weekend! As for the dreadnoughts, I don't have them yet. I have plenty of ironclads and cruisers, and they're going against the French cruisers. But my dreadnoughts are still waiting on telephones, of all things.
Like I said, I'll get an update up this weekend. Should be relatively soon.
Rensslaer