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This thread is awesome, and I absolutely love the addition of cartoon Józef Piłsudski giving commentary!
Go Poland, go! Take the Germans down a peg!
Go Poland, go! Take the Germans down a peg!
Hi !
I enjoy the scientifical approach you have shown in this AAR.
I even thought you have used the name Wielkopolska intentionally since the people of this part of Poland are known for solid, industrious and all around perfectly organised, even dull approach to everything they do.
Personally I have only defeated Germany once in 1939 without attacking and annexing Czechoslovakia first to break the Munich chain and get some serious boost in other areas.
Polish techteams are soooo poor in the vanilla ... who would know about the fact that the parachute doctrine was more developed in Poland than in the UK or France or that armoured forces were seen as incredibly important...
The more appreciation for You to deal with the unintentional obstacles in the vanilla !
P.S. From all the Polish armies in 1939 only actually two were cut off (Poznań and Pomorze) while one was decisively defeated (half mobilised and badly commanded Army Prusy) - the rest if didn't join the garisons of Modlin and Warsaw retreated towards the romanian bridgehead and the Soviet invasion actually contributed to their capitulation destroying any large scale coordination - only a large part of Army Karpaty crossed the border.
The trouble with mobile elements of Wehrmacht was that they were quite often too fast for their own infantry which resulted in all the trouble at Bzura (4th Panzer Div was cut off for two days) or Tomaszów Lubelski (XXIInd Panzer Corps was close to a destruction 1-2 days before the Soviets came in the area.
Unfortunatelly this major flaw of Blitzkrieg didn't matter too much until 1941-42, but it had its problems - probably more often in 1939 than in 1940.
I enjoy the scientifical approach you have shown in this AAR.
I even thought you have used the name Wielkopolska intentionally since the people of this part of Poland are known for solid, industrious and all around perfectly organised, even dull approach to everything they do.
Personally I have only defeated Germany once in 1939 without attacking and annexing Czechoslovakia first to break the Munich chain and get some serious boost in other areas.
Polish techteams are soooo poor in the vanilla ... who would know about the fact that the parachute doctrine was more developed in Poland than in the UK or France or that armoured forces were seen as incredibly important...
The more appreciation for You to deal with the unintentional obstacles in the vanilla !
P.S. From all the Polish armies in 1939 only actually two were cut off (Poznań and Pomorze) while one was decisively defeated (half mobilised and badly commanded Army Prusy) - the rest if didn't join the garisons of Modlin and Warsaw retreated towards the romanian bridgehead and the Soviet invasion actually contributed to their capitulation destroying any large scale coordination - only a large part of Army Karpaty crossed the border.
The trouble with mobile elements of Wehrmacht was that they were quite often too fast for their own infantry which resulted in all the trouble at Bzura (4th Panzer Div was cut off for two days) or Tomaszów Lubelski (XXIInd Panzer Corps was close to a destruction 1-2 days before the Soviets came in the area.
Unfortunatelly this major flaw of Blitzkrieg didn't matter too much until 1941-42, but it had its problems - probably more often in 1939 than in 1940.
i guess that in real life hitler would have never attacked poland if the poles managed to assemble and equip such a number of divisions.
indeed in 35 when pilsudsky was still among the living he had his army ready to storm berlin what he described himself in a "diplomatic" note to hitler
Nice work! I'm learning a lot about how to play a nation with few tech-teams. The whole don't research until you have the blueprint idea is genius!
Anyway...go, Pilsudski go! Show those isolationists how a REAL army deals wih the fascists!
TheExecuter
Anyway...go, Pilsudski go! Show those isolationists how a REAL army deals wih the fascists!
TheExecuter
...while the Czechs lacked all confidence. Without a reason. Those fortifications, armoured formations and general quality of Czechoslovakian army were such that a Winter War vol.2 (or 1, should it have taken placeWinner said:
) would've been possible. Polish campaign is also generally misunderstood. Too much of German propaganda has been taken as historical truth, such as the cavalry attack against tanks or infantry surrendering to aircraft... while in fact they fought valiantly and caused the Germans a good number of difficult situations and terrible tank and vehicle losses.Should've they been fully mobilized and better (=more defensively) deployed, the poles would have offered the Germans a real nut to crack.
Good AAR anyways, hope you succeed! I shall follow.
so the czechs were right in not defending. if it would've been compareable to the winter war, losses on their side would've been great too...
squalleke123 said:
To quote the Duke: "Better die on your feet than live on your knees."
which is what the poles did... I think it's kind of senseless in losing men in a conflict you can't win (winter war is different I suppose as weather was the crucial factor in keeping finish losses to a minimum in the early stages, while maximizing russian losses). Better save them for a conflict you can win...
Edit: and by the way, czechoslovakia didn't really have a choice, because through munich agreements it was clear that they would stand alone if they decided to not honor them and try to keep Sudetenland
Edit: and by the way, czechoslovakia didn't really have a choice, because through munich agreements it was clear that they would stand alone if they decided to not honor them and try to keep Sudetenland
Ugh, I am certainly not a fan of the decision not to defend ourselves, but...
Incomplete...
What formations? Czechoslovak military used the tanks like the French did (i.e. wrongly) - as infantry support.
Czechoslovak military was good in terms of equipment and morale, that's correct, but it was developed based on the French model, which didn't worked very well, as it turned out. Plus, we had too little man to protect 2000 km border. The vital industry was close to the German border and our airforce was seriously underpowered compared to the Luftwaffe. Bohemia and Moravia were effectivelly surrounded.
Not at all. Finland faced the Russians on long, but straight border. They took advantage of the hard terrain and insane weather conditions. Czechoslovakia is in the heart of Europe. Our border mountains are just a nuisance for any modern military and back in 1938, there were roads everywhere - a terrain fit for blitzkrieg. The best we could have achieved was some symbolic resistance and withdrawal to Slovakian mountains. Our historic cities would have been bombed, our civilians would die by tens of thousands and the Westerners would just sit on their butts, drink tea/wine and complain how unfortunate it is that the Czechs didn't accept the reasonable Munich proposal. Wonderful.
The decision not to fight was rational from our gov. point of view, the people who made it had little choice. They didn't know that it would cause much more evil in the future, that it would destroy the morale and confidence of the population and eventually our democracy.
Not really. Polish military was too old-fashioned to deal with blitzkrieg tactics. The Germans just exploited the doctrinal weakness of their enemies and defeated them with numerically inferior force.
I hope it won't happen in this AAR too
Kasakka said:
Incomplete...
What formations? Czechoslovak military used the tanks like the French did (i.e. wrongly) - as infantry support.
Czechoslovak military was good in terms of equipment and morale, that's correct, but it was developed based on the French model, which didn't worked very well, as it turned out. Plus, we had too little man to protect 2000 km border. The vital industry was close to the German border and our airforce was seriously underpowered compared to the Luftwaffe. Bohemia and Moravia were effectivelly surrounded.
were such that a Winter War vol.2 (or 1, should it have taken place
Not at all. Finland faced the Russians on long, but straight border. They took advantage of the hard terrain and insane weather conditions. Czechoslovakia is in the heart of Europe. Our border mountains are just a nuisance for any modern military and back in 1938, there were roads everywhere - a terrain fit for blitzkrieg. The best we could have achieved was some symbolic resistance and withdrawal to Slovakian mountains. Our historic cities would have been bombed, our civilians would die by tens of thousands and the Westerners would just sit on their butts, drink tea/wine and complain how unfortunate it is that the Czechs didn't accept the reasonable Munich proposal. Wonderful.
The decision not to fight was rational from our gov. point of view, the people who made it had little choice. They didn't know that it would cause much more evil in the future, that it would destroy the morale and confidence of the population and eventually our democracy.
Not really. Polish military was too old-fashioned to deal with blitzkrieg tactics. The Germans just exploited the doctrinal weakness of their enemies and defeated them with numerically inferior force.
I hope it won't happen in this AAR too
trekaddict said:
Easier said than done. We're talking about the survival of the whole nation. Czechs were loathed by the Germans, but since they were so docile in 1938/39, they we're not considered as such a threat as Poles or other nations. If they had been considered a threat, the Germans would have deported the population and settle the whole country with their own population. Just look at the ethnic map - Czechs were surrounded by Germans from 3 sides. The best strategy was to do what they were used to do - wait until the time is right and then shake off the oppression with minimum casualties and damage.
trekaddict said:
Well I was was just guessing. But maybe my guess said something similar, who knows?
The line seemed familiar, and I associated with Leto Atreides, who is also Duke.