Why did France lose a research slot?
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They seem to be doing extremely well in currently game. Is that only because of the forts?
I'd guess people disagree with the idea France "lost a research slot" because technically the country still winds up with 5 slots like the others, just takes it more time to get there than some other major powers who start with one slot more (but only get one +slot NF)
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Whatever the icons, when it is written "extra research slot" it means exactly that, when it's not written "extra research slot" it means it's not that, that's something else.
EDIT: As of june 4, it was revealed that the Scientist Haven US focus is really a 6th research slot ! My apologies because you were right about that one.
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France still could be good in 1940, it will lack some inteligence techs and doctrines, but on gear side it could be good enought.
If France is too good 1940 Germany will get wrecked and there will be not much game.
What could be done is to make French national focus tree deeper.
Like 10 more foci.
So if France somehow survives till 1942 it could be proper colonial superpower.
That could create interesting balance. France would like to postpone conflict as long as possible. Germany would like to strike before it is too late.
If France is too good 1940 Germany will get wrecked and there will be not much game.
What could be done is to make French national focus tree deeper.
Like 10 more foci.
So if France somehow survives till 1942 it could be proper colonial superpower.
That could create interesting balance. France would like to postpone conflict as long as possible. Germany would like to strike before it is too late.
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but they should have way worse organisation and a retarded AI they maybe were superior in numbers and equipment, but they still lost the war in 1 month.
and could have lost it in a shorter time without hitlers idiotic orders-
France starting with only three slots does make for some more interesting decisions on what focuses to take. Before I would have gone straight for the focuses that remove the land doctrine and political points penalties before trying to get a fifth research slot. Now the decision is little less clear cut, but I will probably still try to get rid of the penalties first and live with the reduced research capability.
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Make France too strong and MP balance goes out the window. It would be a very different WW2 if France does not fall to Germany. I guess delaying their tech for precious PP is another nerf to them to keep the war interesting.
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The names have no effect. Some NFs have flavour names, others don't. The only way to be sure is the tooltip. The content designers seem to have been consistent with the new artwork, to use icons which indicate the effect. Which one do you think is wrong?
The problem with France arguments is that HoI IV is supposed to be a sandbox game with historical 1936 and 1939 scenarios; it is not supposed to mirror the historical WW2 step-by-step once you unpause.
If France surviving in 1940 is going to ruin your MP game, then you need to think of some house rules. The solution is not for the devs to cripple France to the extent that it is never able to survive. If the intended result is the 1940 Armistice in every game, why even bother with a National Focus tree?
If France surviving in 1940 is going to ruin your MP game, then you need to think of some house rules. The solution is not for the devs to cripple France to the extent that it is never able to survive. If the intended result is the 1940 Armistice in every game, why even bother with a National Focus tree?
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True, but you also want France and Germany fight to be in Germany's favour. France should neither be pushovers nor should they be impossible to defeat. You have to find some balance between uselessly crippled and impossible roadblock. My guess is that the real numbers are heavily in favour of a more balanced outcome than happened historically, so when you give France the full extent of their pre-war capacity in the hands of someone with the knowledge of hindsight it could prove nigh impossible to defeat, and that would be just as bad as them being pushovers.
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Maybe they didn't lost a research slot... maybe they just don't remember where they left it...
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The only evidence we have to go on so far (AFAIK) is the WWW Red France co-op game, in which the German AI has been throwing several hundred thousand troops at the Maginot Line, rather than attempting to go through the Ardennes and encircle the French troops stationed along the Line. This demonstrates an issue with the German AI, not that France is too powerful in 1936 or has the potential to be too powerful by 1939. Even when controlled by the best player in the world (Daniel, for now
) Germany still outclasses France in pretty much every department.We need to be very careful when it comes to threatening France with the nerf stick. We already have such issues with Italy...
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And the third choice to go for ideology change, delays both of these other choices. In the co-op we didn't see the research screen very often, but I'm fairly sure they had three slots for a long time because they chose to use NFs to become communist as early as possible. Instead they could have done one of the choices you mention first, while still converting ideology without using the NFs. But using an Adviser costs 150 PP and is slower than the NF.
All these choices to develop France delay the diplomatic choices, to the point where you could find that something like the Little Entente is no longer possible.
France has many interesting and genuinely varied ways it can be played.
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It is truly exhausting this topic. Throughout the development of the game he said that this version would be much more disparate / sandbox than before. If in the end will always be the same that France always makes the same stupid things and have to lose the war in a month im not really understand anything that is both insisted that as would be the game. If the approach and the fun of the game focus on the precipitous fall of France again by the nerf of their doctrines, troops, etc. It seems to me a railroad again to Barbarrosa and the battle of England / Atlantic again and again and once again. It does not convince me. I want different outputs everytime i start a new game , I want a France that sometimes win the war, another lose them, other not even fight, others whatever. But without any prepared subterfuge.
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The ideology change focus branches have later focuses that allow removal of the Disjointed Government spirit that you need to remove Victors of WWI. It is no faster getting to "Defensive Stratagems" for Democratic France then it is to get "National Mobilisation" for Communist France (or "Army of Aggression" which I assume removes the spirit for Fascist France).
In what way have they crippled France?
Who is threatening that?
France is not ahistorically crippled. It has the research slots to pretty much improve it's industry and equipment to the same extent as Germany. But not it's doctrines.
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Do you want Austria or Turkey to sometimes win the war?
This isn't Stellaris or CIV with a random set-up that should provide fairly balanced starting positions.
Maybe someone will make a mod where all countries are "equal". But the base game has variation between the majors, with an attempt to simulate some of the very real differences between their strategic situations. This is partly to give interesting variation in gameplay between them, and partly to encourage historic outcomes.
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I don't really see a problem with 3 research slot France. The point is, that axis faction is basically encircled by either Brits and France to the west and USSR to the east. If there is suppose to be any fight in the game (you know, world war) then the Germany needs to win in the west to be able to withstand the USSR.
Historically France wasn't that weak, and had comparable army and equipement to Germany. Germas however deployed their tanks on mass and managed to break through the French defenses, cutt off their supplies and ecircle them. This however, could have ended very badly for Germany as well.
Now since this is a game, the maulus to political power and doctrines research makes sense. The 3 research slots are just a nerf to balance things out. As we have seen from the last WWW stream, human player can easily reform France to be a comparable power to the combined forces of Spain, Italy and Germany, at least in the defense. AI however, would do worse and in most cases fall to the Germans.
It might need further balancing, but for that we'd need to see both Germany and France controlled by human players.
Historically France wasn't that weak, and had comparable army and equipement to Germany. Germas however deployed their tanks on mass and managed to break through the French defenses, cutt off their supplies and ecircle them. This however, could have ended very badly for Germany as well.
Now since this is a game, the maulus to political power and doctrines research makes sense. The 3 research slots are just a nerf to balance things out. As we have seen from the last WWW stream, human player can easily reform France to be a comparable power to the combined forces of Spain, Italy and Germany, at least in the defense. AI however, would do worse and in most cases fall to the Germans.
It might need further balancing, but for that we'd need to see both Germany and France controlled by human players.
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what any of this has to do with Austria or Turkey. I am talking about France and its possibilities in a war against Germany ... or England ... whatever. if 100% of the time will be war against Germany and defeat in a month .. what a crap of sandbox game.
I dont play those games and i dont care about those games and his setups.
I do not want "equal" countries. I want a France to do others things than what she did in reality what is according to global circumstances or its neighbors actions and not in any way artificially worsened or nerfed because Germany has to win the Battle of France yes or yes.
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