Why did France lose a research slot?

[kviiri]

Per title, I'd like to hear more about this. Also, have there been any other changes to research slots?

EDIT: How does one even disagree with a question?

 

[grandad1982]

After to much cheese and wine at lunch the researchers had to have a nap, hence the reduction in slots....

My actual guess is that the German AI was finding them to tough so they changed the balance to get a more WW2 like outcome. France is often hit with the nerf bat in these situations.

 

[CzechKronner]

After to much cheese and wine at lunch the researchers had to have a nap, hence the reduction in slots....

My actual guess is that the German AI was finding them to tough so they changed the balance to get a more WW2 like outcome. France is often hit with the nerf bat in these situations.

I think France is still way too powerful. They lost WW2 pretty badly in a short time period. One less research slot makes perfect sense.

 

[barny]

I think France is still way too powerful. They lost WW2 pretty badly in a short time period. One less research slot makes perfect sense.

But that was more due to very bad leadership, outdated doctrines, lacking organization and abysmal moral of the troops. Their planes, tanks and so on weren't so bad.

 

[Victor Cortez]

But that was more due to very bad leadership, outdated doctrines, lacking organization and abysmal moral of the troops. Their planes, tanks and so on weren't so bad.

Yes, they were probably better than the Germans at that point.
As far as I know, what France (and the UK) really lacked would be well represented in Doctrines. At that point of the war, Germany has a doctrine edge and had perfected it during the Polish campaign, but maybe this is hard to balance (giving a malus to French doctrines might not be enough).

 

[Chrescerya]

Yes, they were probably better than the Germans at that point.
As far as I know, what France (and the UK) really lacked would be well represented in Doctrines. At that point of the war, Germany has a doctrine edge and had perfected it during the Polish campaign, but maybe this is hard to balance (giving a malus to French doctrines might not be enough).

France does have the "Winners of The Great War" debuff that increase doctrine cost by 75% if remember well, so doctrine limitation is present...
But 3 tech slots doesn't mean France will have bad tanks or bad infantry, what it means is that France will have to chose it's focus from 5 possibilities (Infantry, tank, air, industry and naval) and will be unable to compete tech wise from the start with Germany that had a high emphasis on innovation pre-war already

 

[kviiri]

I wonder if anyone else but France lost slots. Are the other majors still at 4 slots + 1 unlockable through the NF tree?

 

[Denkt]

It is possible that they have done the same with the other democratic major nations.

 

[Chrescerya]

I wonder if anyone else but France lost slots. Are the other majors still at 4 slots + 1 unlockable through the NF tree?

I think Germany was one of few that actually starts with 4 slots + 1 unlockable

 

[kviiri]

I think Germany was one of few that actually starts with 4 slots + 1 unlockable

Well earlier they said (or at least hinted) that all seven majors would have 4+1, while minors would have 3+2. All focus trees for majors, except the French one we saw in the latest WWW, have just one extra research slot reachable. It's still possible they changed it for others, of course, and the trees we've seen have been updated since.

 

[Ivan_W_S]

In the end, France will still end with 5 research slots, like everyone else, just that it will need to go through a lot NFs to unlock the 2 locked researched slots, Britain starts with 4, at least that was in the 1st WWW 6 months ago, who knows what changed after all these time.

 

[kviiri]

In the end, France will still end with 5 research slots, like everyone else, just that it will need to go through a lot NFs to unlock the 2 locked researched slots, Britain starts with 4, at least that was in the 1st WWW 6 months ago, who knows what changed after all these time.

Back then, France started with 4 too, so it's hardly indicative.

 

[Mirage2k]

USA has +2 research in their focus tree, you can see it in the screenshot from Dev Diary. Maybe that too has changed, who knows.

 

[kviiri]

USA has +2 research in their focus tree, you can see it in the screenshot from Dev Diary. Maybe that too has changed, who knows.

I only see one there, as I told you in the other thread. Are we looking at a different version of the page or something?

 

[kviiri]

Here's the focus tree shot from the DD, there's only one extra research slot (War Propaganda --> Prepare Intervention --> The Giant Wakes --> Limited Intervention --> Extra Research Slot)

Spoiler: USA DD

 

[Chrescerya]

I only see one there, as I told you in the other thread. Are we looking at a different version of the page or something?

http://www.hoi4wiki.com/United_States#/media/File:United_States_focus_tree.jpeg from here I see 1 extra research slots and identical symbol for Scientist Haven, so would assume both give 1 extra research slot meaning USA starts with 3, otherwise icons are confusing. @BjornB could you confirm and check with @Meneth to update wiki some more regarding research trees... Thanks a lot

 

[kviiri]

http://www.hoi4wiki.com/United_States#/media/File:United_States_focus_tree.jpeg from here I see 1 extra research slots and identical symbol for Scientist Haven, so would assume both give 1 extra research slot meaning USA starts with 3, otherwise icons are confusing. @BjornB could you confirm and check with @Meneth to update wiki some more regarding research trees... Thanks a lot

Why would you assume an identical symbol means identical bonus? It's just a beaker, it could be anything science-related. Those old versions of focus trees in particular have a very small amount of symbols (you can see more recent ones like Minor NF tree and Polish Tree for more symbols).

 

[Chrescerya]

Why would you assume an identical symbol means identical bonus? It's just a beaker, it could be anything science-related. Those old versions of focus trees in particular have a very small amount of symbols (you can see more recent ones like Minor NF tree and Polish Tree for more symbols).

cause that is exactly what an icon should do

 

[xtfoster]

But that was more due to very bad leadership, outdated doctrines, lacking organization and abysmal moral of the troops. Their planes, tanks and so on weren't so bad.

Little of which would hinder the AI. Going from 4 to 3 base research slots (they can still get to 5 through NFs) means 1 for Industry, 1 for Air, 1 for Land, and 0 for Doctrines so they can't get ahead in those.
As far as time goes back (OK, so not that long, just as long as HOI has been in existence) 2 of the overriding rules have been: 1) Germany must win the battle of France >75% of the time (AI vs AI AND in roughly the same time frame) 2) Japan must not be so bound up in China that they can't concentrate on the USA (again AI vs AI, and this one seems to have slipped some based on the WWW)

 

[xtfoster]

Why would you assume an identical symbol means identical bonus? It's just a beaker, it could be anything science-related. Those old versions of focus trees in particular have a very small amount of symbols (you can see more recent ones like Minor NF tree and Polish Tree for more symbols).

Everything I have seen and heard says he is right:
The Beaker means extra research slot (regardless of the name. Example: The USSR have 3 Extra Research Slot NF (2 are mutually Exclusive) the one in the Purge Branch is called "Closed City" or something like that.)
The Beaker with shaking hands under it means research bonus