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pls fix Turkey - its beyond stupid.

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marcelo r. r.

marcelo r. r.

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Mar 26, 2019
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In every Its keep joining allies, and then declaring war on romania or iran by 1943...
That time Soviet Union still exists, after thousands of USA lend-lease to keep it alive, just to be in a war with it LOL.

This just become extremely ridiculous we can't have a balance game without a mess or these ridiculou slugish fronts.
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I think it rather feels bland that you can not really change Turkey's stance in the war, which had fairly good interactions with Germany while still maintaining neutrality, it is known that Turkey had offensive preprations against USSR for in case Germany manages to take Stalingrad, which is not really unpredictable since Stalin would probably attack Turkey to found some kind of a Soviet Republic there if there were no that great power clashes, as those two countries were hostile too each other at that era (after 39)

There must be some kind of a neutrality mechanic like Switzerland and Netherlands that would be unlocked via the Kemalist Neutrality focus, and joining the factions focuses would require an amount of difference between influence tokens just like Netherlands', I mean high German influence should prevent the focus of joining Allies and vice versa. The power balance of the World War should also matter, as I said Germany gaining control over the Eastern front should increase the German influence whilst a succesful D-Day or Operation Red Dragon should greatly increase the Allies' influence and reduce German influence, which irl made Turkey to join the Allies at least on the page. And there could be some special decisions regarding the real meetings with Turkey: Adana Conference, where Britain accepted to lend-lease infantry and other equipments to Turkey to persuade them to join. The Turkish alliance focuses from each branch should also increase or decrease the power balance of influences and etc.

As a summary there were really great capabilities for Turkish Neutrality Mechanic to be made but I see that devs did not really strive for it even if there are precedents like Netherlands and Switzerland, I hope to see such a mechanic to be added with the War Effort patches free for all BftB owners, otherwise Turkey would just use its AI path that forcefully makes them join a side, always to the Allies if it is a historical game.
 
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MacroWarrior said:
I think it rather feels bland that you can not really change Turkey's stance in the war, which had fairly good interactions with Germany while still maintaining neutrality, it is known that Turkey had offensive preprations against USSR for in case Germany manages to take Stalingrad, which is not really unpredictable since Stalin would probably attack Turkey to found some kind of a Soviet Republic there if there were no that great power clashes, as those two countries were hostile too each other at that era (after 39)

There must be some kind of a neutrality mechanic like Switzerland and Netherlands that would be unlocked via the Kemalist Neutrality focus, and joining the factions focuses would require an amount of difference between influence tokens just like Netherlands', I mean high German influence should prevent the focus of joining Allies and vice versa. The power balance of the World War should also matter, as I said Germany gaining control over the Eastern front should increase the German influence whilst a succesful D-Day or Operation Red Dragon should greatly increase the Allies' influence and reduce German influence, which irl made Turkey to join the Allies at least on the page. And there could be some special decisions regarding the real meetings with Turkey: Adana Conference, where Britain accepted to lend-lease infantry and other equipments to Turkey to persuade them to join. The Turkish alliance focuses from each branch should also increase or decrease the power balance of influences and etc.

As a summary there were really great capabilities for Turkish Neutrality Mechanic to be made but I see that devs did not really strive for it even if there are precedents like Netherlands and Switzerland, I hope to see such a mechanic to be added with the War Effort patches free for all BftB owners, otherwise Turkey would just use its AI path that forcefully makes them join a side, always to the Allies if it is a historical game.
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I played Turkey and several other "flavor" minors, I notice a "team tired" pattern in the design of these focus trees.

From the beginning to the middle there is a well-crafted work.

But in the end, there is only distribution of declarations of war without any criteria, as if the design team got tired.
 
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This is whole BfB DLC in a nutshell to be fair, its simply that Turkey is the worst of the bunch. and desperately needs more checks, and stop-gaps to stop Turkey derailing every historical game into a WW2.5. Greece can be particularly bad as well if its not killed by Italy in time sometimes.

I'd also argue that there should be an event that asks for UK and German guarantees Turkey gets from its focus. It does this for Soviet Nonaggression pact (that Turkey then breaks a few months later....), Romania has an event asking about Guarantees. But Not Turkey, Turkey just gets free magic guarantees that neither UK or Germany know anything about
 
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I've had it happen to me a couple times in regards to Greece. They randomly declare war on one of its neighbors and all hell breaks loose. Its really silly. Cause it takes a 2-3 hour game session and tosses it in the trash. I hope they address it.
 
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I forget to say it's still happening with Switzerland, is just more later(1947~1948) than before(wich generated lots of complaints, SWZ joining allies in 1944 lol).

Its seems the only DLC countries thats isn't ruining historical run is Portugal/Spain.

This make me have fear of a nordic DLC just bringing up a "Sweden Front" LOL.
 
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Yes, Turkey acted weird in my current game as well. It dragged a bit out, Turkey joined the allies and then at some point declared war on Iran, which had been attacked and puppeted by the SU before. Result: Allies, Axis and Comintern are now fighting each other...
 
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Herennius said:
Yes, Turkey acted weird in my current game as well. It dragged a bit out, Turkey joined the allies and then at some point declared war on Iran, which had been attacked and puppeted by the SU before. Result: Allies, Axis and Comintern are now fighting each other...
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In my runs(i play lots of entering war at late), they atack romania or iran,, the less worse outcome i see when once they atacked romania before its join the allies, then it get stomped by URSS and Allies, without join the Axis LOL.
 
Robosoldier1 said:
I've had it happen to me a couple times in regards to Greece. They randomly declare war on one of its neighbors and all hell breaks loose. Its really silly. Cause it takes a 2-3 hour game session and tosses it in the trash. I hope they address it.
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What does Greece do that breaks the run if it is not capitulated?
 
Lamartine said:
What does Greece do that breaks the run if it is not capitulated?
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It declares war and drags in countries early on that it isn't supposed to. Like generally attacks Turkey if you wait too long but I've seen it for some odd reason invade Albania early on. Frankly it just throws the entire set of events out of wack by setting up a theater that you didn't invoke if your an axis memeber. Specifically Italy.
 
Robosoldier1 said:
It declares war and drags in countries early on that it isn't supposed to. Like generally attacks Turkey if you wait too long but I've seen it for some odd reason invade Albania early on. Frankly it just throws the entire set of events out of wack by setting up a theater that you didn't invoke if your an axis memeber. Specifically Italy.
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I've had Greece DOW Albania once before when I massively spiked World Tension in 1936. They start the game with a claim on Northern Epirus that they will justify on if WT spikes high enough before Italy annexes Albania. But if you spike WT that much before then you're already going off the historical rails.

I've not played long enough often enough to see Greece bring Turkey into WWII, although I have seen Turkey DOW Iran after WWII
 
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Lamartine said:
What does Greece do that breaks the run if it is not capitulated?
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it generally does one of 2 things, atleasts for me, and that is it goes for Heraklion Convention, and declares war on Turkey, pulling both Allies and Axis against itself, due to Turkish magic guarantees I talked earlier about on the thread.

Alternatively it declares war on Albania, which leads to similar allies + Axis fighting against Greece.
Thirdly it sometimes, depending on national focus, declares on Bulgaria, which again, can lead to weird mystery wars that mess the AI and the flow of WW2.
 
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Turkish historical branch is pretty much accurate in game. Only thing is to make Turkish AI very undesirable to be in war. In real Turkey declared on Germany when they were clearly defeated.
 
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withche.07 said:
Turkish historical branch is pretty much accurate in game. Only thing is to make Turkish AI very undesirable to be in war. In real Turkey declared on Germany when they were clearly defeated.
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No they didn't really. Turkey joined the Allied alliance very late in the war (later than they are in the game) and they did not participate in any offensive operations. They were a member of the alliance but did not engage in offensive combat. The game has no mechanic to simulate this currently. The game needs a belligerence level mechanic to distinguish between offensive and defensive members of alliances imo. I guess you could do it maybe by nuking the AI desire but that's not a good solution.

Multiple countries in the Balkans joined the Axis but did not engage in offensive operations also. Currently Greece gets invaded by the entire Axis alliance for example which is very unhistorical.

The Balkans is a mess in general in terms of historical mode. I think it was actually better before the Battle for the Bosporus DLC. There's a lot of stuff in the game that needs to be reworked which is why HOI4 needs a Custodian Team.
 
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The worst part about the balkans is the supply in greece, I mean axis is mostly never able to capitulate greece because the ai cannot deal with the supply system other than to increase the railways but they dont build new supply hubs. In greece you only have the ports for supply and before athens there is nothing so the allies can hold there in the land of no supply until the end of the game.
Bulgaria should also dont do much in a historic game where the ai controls them, give mil access and let the germans fight greece but otherwise do nothing, not even join against the soviets. Also Finnland needs to be adressed, maybe have them declare independant and get decisions to further the german alliance, where when Leningrad is taken they fully join or such.
 
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goodcigar said:
No they didn't really. Turkey joined the Allied alliance very late in the war (later than they are in the game) and they did not participate in any offensive operations. They were a member of the alliance but did not engage in offensive combat. The game has no mechanic to simulate this currently. The game needs a belligerence level mechanic to distinguish between offensive and defensive members of alliances imo. I guess you could do it maybe by nuking the AI desire but that's not a good solution.

Multiple countries in the Balkans joined the Axis but did not engage in offensive operations also. Currently Greece gets invaded by the entire Axis alliance for example which is very unhistorical.

The Balkans is a mess in general in terms of historical mode. I think it was actually better before the Battle for the Bosporus DLC. There's a lot of stuff in the game that needs to be reworked which is why HOI4 needs a Custodian Team.
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Yeah, Turkey didn't participate but it officially declared war.

Turkish declaration of war on Germany and Japan - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
That's what I mean.

But I agree, desire of AI to join fight must be even lower.
 
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