Paradox Tuesday Multiplayer Thread

[Groogy]

Alright so we are back on playing our weekly multiplayer sessions on Tuesday and like I did before I'm going to report on the progress of the game. Right now I don't think we are going to be streaming the game. Anyway let's start with the list of players and starting positions.

Aerie - Sweden
Yonaz - France
r_lazer - The Hansa
Trin Tragula - Portugal
Wiz - Milan
Chainsaw - Timurids
Grekulf - Ottomans
Johan - Holland
Forzaa - Brandenburg
LittleFido - Muscowy
Birken - Castille
mrop - Hungary
Emalia - Tunisia
Jakob - Poland
DDRJake - Venice
Beuschov - England
TheLetterZ - Austria
Groogy - Bohemia
JohnWordsworth - Denmark
Da9L - Lithuania
xazaz - Mamelukes

First session - Year 1478 of our Lord

####################
## STATS FOR MP ###
####################
Current Score

1. France 212 (+0.66)
2. Ming 211 (+0.53)
3. Austria 150 (+0.51)
4. Castile 109 (+0.00)
5. Hungary 99 (+0.19)
6. The Papal State 79 (+0.59)
7. England 72 (+0.23)
8. Timurids 67 (+0.00)
9. Aragon 64 (+0.00)
10. Lithuania 61 (+0.07)
11. Mamluks 56 (+0.51)
12. The Hansa 48 (+0.00)
13. Milan 44 (+0.00)
14. Venice 42 (+0.39)
15. Brandenburg 32 (+0.19)
16. Ulm 31 (+0.03)
17. Bohemia 27 (+0.00)
18. Siena 27 (+0.51)
19. Wurzburg 26 (+0.00)
20. Nassau 25 (+0.27)

Income

1. Ming 50.56
2. France 30.94
3. Aragon 25.69
4. Austria 25.50
5. England 23.59
6. Castile 21.17
7. Mamluks 20.66
8. Lithuania 20.49
9. Timurids 19.12
10. The Papal State 18.95
11. Jaunpur 17.47
12. Venice 16.68
13. Poland 15.57
14. Bahmanis 14.54
15. Persia 14.48
16. Bohemia 14.45
17. Hungary 14.32
18. The Hansa 14.06
19. Morocco 13.89
20. Muscovy 13.37

Max. Manpower

1. Austria 54,850
2. France 47,434
3. Lithuania 37,598
4. Timurids 37,324
5. Castile 30,424
6. Ming 29,841
7. Muscovy 27,860
8. Mamluks 27,142
9. Aragon 24,446
10. England 24,435
11. Qara Qoyunlu 24,337
12. Poland 23,232
13. Oirat 23,147
14. Persia 22,743
15. Sweden 22,686
16. Burgundy 21,087
17. Uzbek 21,040
18. Jaunpur 20,581
19. The Papal State 19,240
20. Bahmanis 19,066

Standing Army

1. Ming 72,000
2. France 47,000
3. Austria 45,000
4. Lithuania 41,000
5. Castile 38,000
6. Hungary 29,000
7. Poland 28,841
8. Aragon 27,000
9. England 25,500
10. Jaunpur 25,000
11. Mamluks 24,785
12. Morocco 23,631
13. Oirat 23,000
14. The Papal State 22,000
15. Timurids 19,321
16. Bohemia 19,000
17. Savoy 17,000
18. Muscovy 17,000
19. Jianzhou 16,000
20. Milan 16,000

War Fleet

1. Ming 0/20
2. Mamluks 0/16
3. Venice 0/14
4. Tunis 1/9
5. Aragon 0/10
6. Portugal 9/0
7. Sweden 0/8
8. England 7/0
9. Castile 3/3
10. The Papal State 0/6
11. Korea 0/6
12. Byzantium 0/5
13. Haasa 0/5
14. Lithuania 0/4
15. Ouchi 0/4
16. Dai Viet 0/3
17. Denmark 0/3
18. Yeren 0/3
19. Qara Qoyunlu 0/2
20. Jianzhou 0/2

Trade Fleet

1. England 16
2. Ming 13
3. Holland 12
4. The Hansa 11
5. Majapahit 9
6. Brunei 8
7. Castile 8
8. Oman 7
9. Kilwa 7
10. Brittany 6
11. Aragon 6
12. Portugal 6
13. Khmer 5
14. Sunda 5
15. Orissa 5
16. Yemen 5
17. Vijayanagar 5
18. Korea 5
19. Malabar 4
20. Mombasa 4

Technologies

1. Castile 18
2. Austria 18
3. Aragon 18
4. France 17
5. Perm 17
6. Norway 17
7. Brabant 17
8. Switzerland 17
9. Naples 17
10. Ottomans 17
11. Denmark 17
12. Pomerania 17
13. Savoy 17
14. Holland 17
15. Portugal 17
16. Wurzburg 17
17. Cologne 17
18. The Papal State 17
19. Brandenburg 17
20. Pskov 16

Events in the Year 1478 of our Lord

Venetian-Mamluk Intervention against Ottoman Imperialism
The Venetian War Fleet secures and establishes a beachhead in the country of Albania to protect them from the rapid expansion of the Ottoman Empire. With help secured from the Slave Mercenaries of Egypt total victory was guarranteed and the Caliph eventually succumbs to the invasion both in Anatolia and Greece.

The Princes Coalition
Various Princes of the HRE banded together to bully other princes within the empire. First to be punished by this unholy alliance was Bohemia who ended up being forced to release his overlordship of Wurzburg and Silesia. After that they banded together to fight Holland, 3 times.

Imperial Defense against Danish Incursions
The Danes after having lost both Sweden and Norway decides to expand into the Empire but the Kaiser, Archduke of Austria, puts his foot down and occupies all of Jylland.

Polish Invasion of Hungary
The Hungarians and Bohemians are defending against Poland however with great success defeating their eastern neighbor. However the conflict is not yet over and what ever can happen.

 

[Wizzington]

An event that our chronicler missed: At the height of the Ottoman war, a coalition of Italian states attacked the Venetians, whose army had been severely weakened. The Duke of Milan made the Doge an offer he could not refuse: Return Brescia and be defended by Milan, or have Milan join against the Venetians.

The Doge chose wisely.

 

[Wizzington]

While I'm glad to see these MP games back, I can't help but find it a little boring that all of you are playing as a significant nations, mainly in or around Europe. Personaly, I'd find a MP game where you're all playing non-European minors much more interesting to read about.

If we were all playing non-european minors there would be very little player conflict.

 

[Wizzington]

Wiz backstabbing DDRJake

It wasn't exactly backstabbing. I had warned him previously that we'd come to blows over Brescia if he insisted on holding on to it, so the knife was very much in plain view (and never even had to be used).

 

[Groogy]

How in the world did Bohemia manage to take 1 province from Silesia does it no longer start as a vassal or did something happen?

Me and Holland got each coalition to oblivion by every single AI Prince in the HRE, that's why. I lost Wurzburg and Silesia as Vassals.

 

[Groogy]

How did you manage this in the first place? Please tell me AE was ramped way up and taking Wurzburg caused unending coalition chains!

No I took Wursburg peacefully. There was just a balance issue and it generated way too much AE for the smallest thing, so I got screwed over by that.

 

[DDRJake]

Venetian reconquest of albania?

Please, I was simply bringing them into my protective fold, saving them from the unjust Ottoman tyrant.

 

[Johan]

From the look of the map Holland has only gained one province, exactly how big did they get before they were shot down? Also doesn't Holland start in PU to Burgundy now? how did he get free or more of who helped him get free?

French+castillian help.

Taking Utrecht caused 3 large coalitions against me.

 

[Johan]

Haha, looks like the 'peasant rabble' at Paradox offices are taking revenge against their supreme commander Johan ingame yet again. Last time I watched a dev MP stream (which, admittedly, was eons ago), Johan's Bohemia got partitioned during the first session.
How were the intermittent games? Does everyone bully Johan these days?

Previous game i obliterated ddrjake

 

[Wizzington]

Annexing An OPM caused a grand coalition? I am worried about that the next patch...

A number did not scale properly to the new development system. It has since been tweaked.

 

[Johan]

From previous Dev MP games, it seems like Wiz and Forzaa are probably the best MP players, with Johan close behind. Is that what you all think as well? Don't know how DDRJake compares yet. Wiz seems like the best diplomat, with Forzaa the best technical player....

Yonaz is better than me, and so is the witch king.

 

[Groogy]

Yonaz is better than me, and so is the witch king.

Yonaz is kind of the quiet Tiger, he crawls silently through the grass until he is close enough to pounce on you and sink his teeth into your neck.
Every game he sits in his corner of the world and grows... and grows.... and grows until he is a horde that can't be stopped. Somehow he always gets away with it.

 

[Johan]

How long does it take to get a good feel for the skill of a new player? Do you have a good feel for Jake's skill yet? I'd bet it's fairly easy to get a feel for technical skill, but diplomatic skill is much more deep and subtle. (I've never played MP).

I think jake is good, definitely top 8 at the office. Probably better than me...

competetive mp has 3 skills that you need.
- mechanics knowledge, to build up your nation as optimal as possible.
- diplomatic skill, to get allies, to survive.
- military skill. To fight wars when the clock is ticking.

 

[Groogy]

What house rules do you guys follow?

No Mercy

 

[Groogy]

Don't you still have a house rule that if somebody is sick (or was it at a meeting) then you cannot jump him that session?

Yeah of course

I bet there are a few rules to nerf DDRJake. Have to keep it fair or otherwise Jake will find a way to turn Europe into a shinto republic.

No we don't really have anything like that. We play these games not just because its fun but because its work and if DDRJake would find a way to make a Shinto Republic in Europa, that's just good.

 

[yonaz]

I think the diplomatic skill is probably the most important of those 3 for multiplayer. Look at Daniel who got destroyed because he didn't bother to talk to his neighbours And he knows the game mechanics well.. and he can use his Dota skills for microing armies in war
But that doesn't help that much when you are outnumbered..
EU4 requires some serious APM though in certain moments on speed 3, when you are occupied in war on several fronts and events popping up/manage colonies etc etc.
It's even more hectic than Starcraft 2..

 

[Wizzington]

You put 15+ people in the game as non-European minors, and within 100 years borders will still be very, very tight unless you spread them max distance.

I'm operating on the assumption that at least most of you know what you're doing, but I believe that to be a fair assumption (more like an understatement). It's not that hard to unite India with Naguar by 1600, if you have 10 people in a game that can do this it really doesn't matter who you play.

By 1600 sure, assuming by 'non-European' you mean 'Asian'. We want early game conflict though, not just late game blobs smashing together.

 

[grekulf]

He is Grekulf?

Yup. I am. I didn't want to do pre-game diplomacy, but rather wanted to see what would happen. Besides, it gets a bit boring if there's no challenge, doesn't it? I quite enjoy being massively outnumbered, it feels more rewarding when I execute my maneuvers as best I can.

I'm also kind of bad at diplomacy because I'm too much of a dominant player. It also doesn't always help to be viewed as a threat.
In terms of "military skill" I'd probably count myself as the best by quite a large margin. Sounds boastful, I know, but well...
Mechanics is harder to say, I would still rate myself very high, although I expect Jake to have better knowledge about the more rare situations than I do at this point


Overall was kinda fun, I managed to hold off quite well, but sadly I just cant do anything with the starting disparity in fleet size

Since they won't let me play Ming I'll most likely try one of the Jurchen tribes.

 

[Groogy]

České království
Königreich Böhmen​

The heinous acts by the Princes Coalition will not be forgotten! They will pay for the crimes they did towards this most Serene Kingdom. Our dear subjects of the Prince-Bishopric of Wurzburg and the Duchies of Silesia taken out of our fold for no reason other than what I can see as malicious intent. Wurzburg joined the Kingdom on their own with no use of the Bohemian Army and the Silesians we inherited from our time as King of Poland. They are part of our blood and as King of the Bohemian Crown Lands I shall not rest until our own people are returned back!

Hledaj pravdy, slyš pravdu, uč sě pravdě, miluj pravdu, prav pravdu, drž pravdu, braň pravdy až do smrti.

- Jaromír I Czernín, Král český, Kurfiřt Svaté říše římské, Markrabě moravský, Markrabě Horní a Dolní Lužice, Protektor Slezských knížectví, Protektor Kníže-biskupství würzburského.

 

[Groogy]

Second session - Year 1502 of our Lord
####################
## STATS FOR MP ###
####################
Current Score

1. France 454 (+0.96)
2. Austria 318 (+0.40)
3. Ming 311 (+0.03)
4. Castile 277 (+0.86)
5. Venice 213 (+0.45)
6. The Hansa 143 (+0.30)
7. Arabia 135 (+0.15)
8. Lithuania 134 (+0.41)
9. The Papal State 124 (+0.00)
10. Milan 120 (+0.45)
11. Timurids 118 (+0.20)
12. Muscovy 112 (+0.71)
13. Hungary 101 (+0.00)
14. England 94 (+0.00)
15. Holland 86 (+0.50)
16. Bohemia 86 (+0.96)
17. Aragon 64 (+0.05)
18. Brandenburg 61 (+0.06)
19. Nassau 59 (+0.00)
20. Liege 51 (+0.00)

Income

1. France 39.26
2. Castile 34.73
3. Austria 33.12
4. England 28.38
5. Milan 27.66
6. Lithuania 27.27
7. Venice 26.88
8. Aragon 25.39
9. Timurids 24.90
10. Muscovy 24.76
11. Ming 24.58
12. Arabia 24.22
13. The Hansa 22.53
14. Holland 21.41
15. Persia 18.94
16. Poland 18.88
17. Bahmanis 18.16
18. Sweden 17.65
19. Morocco 17.42
20. Wu 16.97

Max. Manpower

1. France 60,696
2. Castile 53,012
3. Lithuania 49,391
4. Austria 47,790
5. Timurids 41,684
6. Muscovy 39,425
7. Arabia 33,790
8. Aragon 32,439
9. Sweden 29,525
10. Poland 29,515
11. England 28,511
12. Milan 26,993
13. Persia 26,485
14. Manchu 24,521
15. Ming 21,015
16. Bahmanis 20,888
17. Tunis 20,650
18. Ethiopia 20,499
19. Orissa 20,376
20. Morocco 20,210

Standing Army

1. France 57,000
2. Austria 49,000
3. Lithuania 47,000
4. Muscovy 43,000
5. Timurids 42,000
6. Castile 38,000
7. Milan 37,360
8. Arabia 26,289
9. England 22,670
10. Aragon 22,000
11. Wu 22,000
12. Poland 21,102
13. Persia 21,000
14. Morocco 21,000
15. Naples 20,838
16. Venice 20,622
17. Huron 20,000
18. Tunis 19,000
19. Vijayanagar 18,690
20. Mewar 18,000

War Fleet

1. Ming 0/20
2. Venice 0/17
3. Arabia 0/16
4. Aragon 0/14
5. Tunis 1/9
6. Sweden 0/10
7. Haasa 0/9
8. England 7/0
9. Naples 0/7
10. Castile 3/3
11. Manchu 0/5
12. Yamana 0/5
13. Lithuania 0/4
14. Genoa 0/4
15. Morocco 4/0
16. Korea 0/4
17. Byzantium 1/3
18. Crimea 0/3
19. Austria 0/2
20. Flanders 2/0

Trade Fleet

1. England 19
2. Holland 18
3. France 18
4. The Hansa 16
5. Ming 13
6. Castile 10
7. Majapahit 9
8. Aragon 8
9. Kilwa 7
10. Pasai 7
11. Siak 7
12. Mewar 7
13. Morocco 6
14. Brittany 6
15. Milan 6
16. Vijayanagar 5
17. Denmark 5
18. Naples 5
19. Mombasa 5
20. Korea 5

Technologies

1. Holland 24
2. Castile 24
3. Switzerland 23
4. Cologne 23
5. Denmark 23
6. Aragon 23
7. Milan 23
8. Nevers 23
9. Lithuania 23
10. Brittany 22
11. Savoy 22
12. The Palatinate 22
13. France 22
14. Pomerania 22
15. The Papal State 22
16. Bohemia 22
17. Naples 21
18. Norway 21
19. Tuscany 21
20. Byzantium 21

Events in the Year 1502 of our Lord
Polish Invasion of Hungary
The Polish invasion of Hungary ends in a white peace as the much superior Bohemian Soldiers and Generals defeat the Polish army devastating the entire country side. The Bohemian troops advanced from the north getting little to no opposition from the Forts as there were no Polish soldiers to support them. The war ends with the Liberation of the Free City of Krakow and its inclusion into the Bohemian Crown Lands.

War of the Hungary Hungry Emperor
In an effort to alleviate the Polish King the Kaiser hears his pleas and invades the Hungarian land. The Hungarians have no soldiers left to fight them and is forced to quite quickly give up their entire border.

Venetian Opportunism
Sensing that Hungary is weak and unable to defend itself the Venetian Merchantmen pay their mercenary army to acquire the entire Dalmatian coast from the Hungarian King for the Republic.

The formation of Arabia
The Mamluk slaves in Egypt have conquered the entire Arabian peninsula and call their nation the Caliphate of Arabia, Sultan of all Arabs.

The Portuguese Integration
The King of Castile out of Boredom or greed, nobody knows, attack their smaller brother Portugal and integrate them into the much larger Kingdom violating their long history with bloodshed.

The Reconquest of the Imperial Italy
Numerous Italian City States renounced the Imperial Authority of the Kaiser these passing years and the Habsburg gave as a task to the Margrave of Milan to reacquire the Italian lands for the Empire. With this mission the former Duchy now Republic have grown immensely more than doubling their size.

The Mad King of Hungary's March
In a lash out of madness from the King of Hungary he preemptively strikes at Austria to reclaim his land forcing his troops to fight the much superior and numerous Imperial Armies. The war is over before its even started and he is forced to give up even more land.