Nobody expects the Spanish expedition!: Part II - Africa gets Scrambled
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This is exactly what I was thinking too. Primary culture of the protectorate should be the primary culture of the nation releasing it. Reforms/decisions should be able to add natives as accepted cultures. Revolutions should replace the natives as the primary culture, depending on the revolution.
Doesn't make sense that you release a protectorate and it INSTANTLY gets to train guards and other high-end units which require cultural compatibility. Protectorates would just be too easy and a no-brainer.
Maybe so.
Purely for demonstration purposes.
I'm with you -- I always forgot to use my troops in AHD or vanilla when the bonus was present.
Great!
Exactly right!
Spain seems to be having way more fun than ever before.
That's because I've cut out the actual mechanics of getting smacked around by France; that part wasn't very fun.
1. Good question; I honestly don't know.
2. No. It has to be your territory, not your puppet's.
You got answered a bit down the line.
AFAIK, they're full states. Not sure about the tech level.
No; the soldier POP penalty is only for protectorates. As far as the actual penalty, I'm not certain. TBH, I usually upgrade to colonies ASAP.
Exactly.
It is state based; the number of provinces is irrelevant.
It would be nice, but probably won't happen.
OMG the confederation thing is cool
I like it too!
Since I gave you a thumbs up for declaring support for the Polish independence in the previous update, it's only fair if I give you a thumb down now for abandoning the poor Poles
On a serious note - the game really looks interesting. I haven't followed the DD's (though I've already pre-ordered HoD anyway): are there any major changes to the economy?
The synergy bonus is the big change, but there's been an overall economic rebalance as well. As I said in an update, a lot of the techs have been changed.
Podcat answers you later on.
It didn't make much of a difference for me in this game, but I did like to use their transports.
Exactly!
That's a good question actually. Primary culture will be the local tribal majority, the peoples who will be in charge of the government of that dominion (so it's playable as a country). Other significant tribes, as well as master country's culture will be treated as accepted, to make sure they don't get discriminated against. British culture for everyone, the way it's shown in Avi's screenshots was just a placeholder and is a thing of the past now.
For example, here's an (exclusive!) pic of a dynamic Austrian dominion in Somalia:
Very nice!
Thanks for fielding these for me, delra. I can't believe how many comments I've gotten in just a few hours!
Depends on the player.
You'd probably get a decent sized dominion covering the American northwest, I'd guess. Yes, the flags are randomly generated.
Fair enough.
Awesome work on the aar ,i love it! And if i had doubts bout buying this expansion ,you can consider them now as removed.
Excellent!
I honestly had no idea that, of all the things I've talked about it in these two updates, that the culture for dominions would be the most controversial.
They probably got sphered by somebody. As to your first question, as of this build I played (which was from April 5, a lot has changed!) the AI hadn't been taught how to release dominions or when to do it, yet. Very much work in progress.
Could very well be!
That's true.
Why are people equating primary culture with ruling class? I certainly don't: think of it as asking the question, "of what culture are most of the people?" That's how I think of it.
I'd find kind of tedious for very little benefit, myself. Your mileage may vary.
I just remembered this: because the nations of Canada, South Africa and Australia already exist in the game, they already have a defined culture, and are not affected by this new feature. The problem only arrises when you liberate dynamically generated dominions. While we won't see South Africa run by the zulus, the xhosa or the khoisan, an animist Senegal led by african minor is a possibility... a terrible, terrible possibility.
Because I don't think it's plausible that the europeans would be selfish enough to abdicate of the white man's burden. No. The white man alone must carry that burden into the heart of darkness. The natives must be spared! Their innocence can not be spoiled by the hardships of self governance. We must guide them. They must learn to speak the language of civilization, they must abandon their childish beliefs and be redeemed by the word of Our Lord, and we must bring them civilization whatever the costs. It is our duty. This noble and difficult task can only be carried by us, for if let to themselves they would quickly descend into the savagery they came from.
I'm sorry, I don't want to derail the thread any further, this is a great AAR, but please Podcat reconsider your decisions and do the right thing
See what I said earlier.
Agreed.
Well, not to steal delra's thunder, but Guards aren't the world beaters they used to be any more.
Because when you mouse over the tooltip it states "the group of people that are treated like first class citizens in your country". Primary culture is very much the ruling ethnic class.
I agree with the others on this thread that I wouldn't release a dominion if it inherited a native culture as a primary culture, and not my culture as primary... I really wanted to make a dominion empire as well spreading my culture as first-class
I agree with the others on this thread that I wouldn't release a dominion if it inherited a native culture as a primary culture, and not my culture as primary... I really wanted to make a dominion empire as well spreading my culture as first-class
That, of course, is your decision, but I beg you not to judge based on this beta AAR.
Have they exported the relationship factors that play into accepting agreements like right of passage and alliance to a text file? I don't think they're moddable atm. Like -50 for "has alliance with another great power" and the such.
I get pretty perturbed that the league of the three emperors or the triple entente just breaks days after making it, and I'd like to be able to adjust these variables to allow them to perpetuate in reasonable conditions. This assumes that the reasons they break alliances are related to those that they make alliances.
I figure with the crisis system, alliances between great powers means much more than it did before. I'd rather appreciate if Prussia wasn't constantly crapping on it's bro Austria in these events.
I get pretty perturbed that the league of the three emperors or the triple entente just breaks days after making it, and I'd like to be able to adjust these variables to allow them to perpetuate in reasonable conditions. This assumes that the reasons they break alliances are related to those that they make alliances.
I figure with the crisis system, alliances between great powers means much more than it did before. I'd rather appreciate if Prussia wasn't constantly crapping on it's bro Austria in these events.
Just to complement on that, look at the following cases:
South Africa, primary british, accepted boer, both minorities
Ethiopia, primary Oromo, majority amhara
Liberia, primary afro american, majority kru
Belgium, primary wallonian, majority flemish
Bolivia, primary south andean, majority quechua
Peru, primary south andean, majority quechua
Paraguay, primary platinean, majority guarani
Primary culture was never intended to be the culture of the majority, it's the culture of the elite. Pops assimilate to the culture of the elite, because they want to be considered first class citizens and have the same privileges. Now consider this, if the liberated dominions have the native culture as primary, it means that under residency policy the citizens of the master's nationality are not allowed to vote. Her Majesty's subjects are not allowed to vote. In Her own dominion.
For me the whole primary culture issue is not a huge deal.
I am more interested in the crisis mechanic than anything else.
I guess you could RP as a benevolent civilising force if you want.
I am more interested in the crisis mechanic than anything else.
I guess you could RP as a benevolent civilising force if you want.
Thanks!
No idea; you'd have to ask somebody with knowledge of modding.
You and others have made your positions on this quite plain. I am certain that the devs are looking into this, and may have already adjusted things for the eventual release.
You certainly could.
Just to be clear, the reason that the culture thing is being noted is because its the only thing that we notice that isn't what we expect it to be. Everything else looks great and was well covered by the AAR. The culture thing is a minor bit too, as at least there is now an actual purpose to making dominions. So overall a positive change, even if we disagree about some points of the implementation.
Edit: Also, I would have loved if the game had a religion map mode, as religion and culture are two massive parts of colonisation for me. Didn't want to start a new thread for that observation, so thought I'd mention it somewhere where the devs may eventually see it. Not a biggie, but would add a little flavour.
When you turn a colony into a state, do you just spend colonial points, or does the process also require the 1% of primary culture bureaucrats we have had so far?
Avindian said:
you must be new to these forums
It also require primary culture bureaucrats. So even with a lot of points you cant rush it much faster
Making the primary culture the culture of the coloniser doesn't just make sense in terms of game balance and the fact that IRL dominions were characterised by minority rule, but also because it helps clarify that imperialism was oppressive and unjust. Being able to create dominions in the 19h Century which are non-white majority ruled is something of a whitewash of history.
But we dont really want colonization in HoD to be oppressive and unjust for the same reason as germany doesnt build concentration camps in Hearts of Iron. We are focusing on GP conflict and competition. If you want a modifier on cultures based on skin color its just not happening.
note that this does not apply for scripted historical dominions like Canada. The added cultures is only for dynamic countries, so if you disagree that the local african minorities should be primary culture of a region you can just not release them. Do note also that they are your puppet and in your sphere, so its not like they arent ruled by your country.
I think nobody in this thread is actively promoting genocide or racism, nor are they campaigning to have you add them in the game!
The question being discussed is that of colonial politics, which should be a viable topic considering the nature of the expansion. Also, the fact of post-colonial states having a ruling class that was not of the majority was a major issue in the way those countries developed, as it was a source of major instability in many cases.
I am personally on the fence about this (and will therefore loose prestige for admitting that) mainly because the accepted, primary, and secondary culture mechanics would require a make-over for this to work properly - since you can't have movements or even revolutions to grant a culture a different status, post-colonial nations would be forced to remain as they were released.