TheMaster

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News Flash: Poland will not have more provinces than France
In fact, at best poland will have 10

Why? This provinces are historical and few of it have been richer and have more population than French provinces. France have now 43 provinces and this is only one country. In here we have more than one country: Poland, Lithuania, Teutonic Order, Inflants (Kurland etc.), Ukraine, and few of this provinces in past will be Russian.
 

Mad King James

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Well alright, but I'm merging the really really small ones that don't absolutely need to be in for gameplay reasons for the same reasons as France and Spain.

A lot of the really small additions to France wouldn't have been added if it wasn't for the fact that there are good reasons for their existance (Calais, Foix, Nice, etc)

More provinces for the sake of more provinces isn't what I'm going for, I want every province to count so to speak.
 

Czajna

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_tr said:
1385r.
Poland - 244,000 km2, 9 persons/km2 = about 2,2 mln poeple
Lithuania - about 1 mln km2, 3 persons/km2 = about 3 mln people

1582 r.
Poland+Lithuania - 815,000 km2, 8 mln people

1634 (represented in TheMaster's map) - 900 000 km2, 11 mln people
 

TheMaster

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Well alright, but I'm merging the really really small ones that don't absolutely need to be in for gameplay reasons for the same reasons as France and Spain.

A lot of the really small additions to France wouldn't have been added if it wasn't for the fact that there are good reasons for their existance (Calais, Foix, Nice, etc)

More provinces for the sake of more provinces isn't what I'm going for, I want every province to count so to speak.

But Italy and North Africa have many small provinces.

Look, in our proposition small provinces are: Kiev: this is very important for peace treatry in Polanów and Andruszów and for Cossacks wars but it can be merged with Poltava (31); Danzig: this province is important for Polish-Teutonic conflict, for pecace in Torun (1466), for Swedish Invasion and for partition of Poland (Danzig have free city status), but it can be merged with Pomorze (2); Warmia in here place is strategical province; Chelmno is basic historical reason of Polish-Teutonic conflicts.
 

TheMaster

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My rivers proposition.

Blue - this rivers are in EU 2.
Green - this rivers should be added.

mapafinalwrivers.jpg
 

N Katsyev

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I Killed Kenny said:
too many provinces...

Bloody west-centred ideology, this was what hurt Poland and all of Eastern Europe in the original game.

I rather like the new map, all except for the giving East-slavic lands Polish names. :p
 

N Katsyev

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I Killed Kenny said:
At least I am not Ultra-nationalistic in this matter... I think Portugal should have just one more province.. 2 max...

And this works too. Portugal's territorial representation is not as mechanically important (value can just be distributed in larger quantities) as that of Poland's which has the potential to be involved in different wars on different fronts and eventual partitioning. Now, while i'd agree that some of the provinces on the above map could be merged - I just thought the flat statement, "Too many provinces" gave the wrong impression.
 

Arturro

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Could I say something as a polish nationalist? :D Every one like to add as many provinces fot their country, as possible, but EU2 is not a place for national propaganda :). It is a game! And game balance is more important than anything. IMHO there is no reason to add more than 60-80 provinces at all. Not only in Europe, but on world map. Remember - adding one province means somebody has to rewrite all events for that province. Small provinces - poor provinces, and so slower tech increase. IMHO some provinces should be even removed - like that in siberian corridor.
There is 9 polish cores - and it is enought. Some of them should be renamed and/or reshaped, but there is no need to split any one of them. With maybe one exception - if there will be hanseatic city-provinces, Danzig should be one of them.
That should be in Bohemian topic, but Silesia must be splited into Lower and Upper. Silesia was wery important and rich province, and never was realy one (not before prussian conquest). Large parts of Silesia (upper) was a personal domain of polish/swedish Wasa dynasty, for example.
Lithuania - 2 provinces should be added - Ukraine should be splited in two, Zmudz must be added (created from parts of Courland, Memel and Lithuania provinces). And there is no rational (in game balance terms) reasons to adding any more provinces in that region. But almost all lithuanian provinces has to be reshaped and renamed.
Of course anybody could make his own map now :).

As for names - use english ones. Or latin names for catholic/protestant part of Europe, greek for orthodox. Do not use "national" names for any province in Central Europe, cause we will never go to any conclusion. There country, language and culture borders has changed too many times.

Do you know difference between nationalism and nazism?
Nazi - my nation is most important, and so we have "rights" to crush, kill and conquer.
Nationalist - my nation is most important for me, but I have to show respect for other nations, if I like to expect respect from others.

PS. Sorry for mistakes :)
 

TheMaster

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This is not nationalism. Why 5 countries (Poland, Lithuania, Ukraine, Teuton, Baltics and there can be more) sholud have less provinces than one (France)?

I think that events is no problem.

Poland should has many provinces like France etc. because this provinces is very important for wars, peace etc., and this isn't be one country! I think that our proposition (represented on the map) with small correction should be added.
 
Last edited:

Herr Doctor

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TheMaster said:
My rivers proposition.

Blue - this rivers are in EU 2.
Green - this rivers should be added.

mapafinalwrivers.jpg
what about Bug?
 

jozi02

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This map is a necessary minimum. In XV-XVI centaury Poland was one of the most powerfull countries in the Europa, and you can't change it.
 

Rythin

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Arturro,
You have probably never played any MP game in EU2, have you? Because you should know that problems with huge Wielkopolska, Ukraine and Lithuania are topics of constant complains. You should look at other countries' map propositions - why Poland should have fewer provinces than Spain? I bet that one single Polish province have seen more battles than all Spanish altogether, so that is the issue. Also, I don't think how increasing the number of province could affect the game in unbalancing way as everyone is adding new terrains everywhere - manpower and tax settings will be reduced to keep proportions, of course.
 

Herr Doctor

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TheMaster said:
I try to draw rivers on provinces borders but some provinces (9, 10, 6, 13, 32, 21, 22) should be crosscuted by river.
also may be it has sense to unite the north of Troki province (Upite region) with Samagotia (Zmudz). It's unhistorical but this will allow not to cut Troki province with Nemien.
 

TheMaster

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OK, here is map after some fixes:

mapfinalrivers.jpg


List of provinces:
1. Warmia - Elblag
2. Pomorze - Malbork
3. Poznan - Poznan
4. Kalisz - Kalisz
5. Kujawy - Torun
6. Mazowsze - Warszawa
7. Podlasie - Drohiczyn
8. Sieradz - Sieradz
9. Krakow - Krakow
10. Sandomierz - Sandomierz
11. Lublin - Lublin
12. Chelm - Chelm
13. Rus - Lwow
14. Wolyn - Luck
15. Podole - Kamieniec Podolski
16. Braclaw - Braclaw
17. Kijow - Kijow
18. Czernichow - Chernichow
19. Smolensk - Smolensk
20. Mscislaw - Mscislaw
21. Witebsk - Witebsk
22. Polock - Polock
23. Minsk - Minsk
24. Brzeskolitewskie - Pinsk
25. Nowogrodek - Nowogrodek
26. Wilno - Wilno
27. Troki - Troki
28. Zmudz - Wornie
29. Kurlandia - Mitawa
30. Dyneburg - Dyneburg
31. Poltawa - Poltawa
32. Zaporoze - Kodak
33. Chelmno - Chelmno
34. Gdansk - Gdansk
35. Belz - Belz
36. Nowogrod Siewierski - Nowogrod Siewierski
37. Lower Prussia - Masuren (Szczytno)
38. Upper Prussia - Koenigsberg (Królewiec)
39. Zytomierz - Zytomierz