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Owen

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Because of the way the EU2 combat engine works, rivers either follow province borders or are absent. You therefore need to decide whether to shift river courses to the edge of a province or to just remove them.
 

Mad King James

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If a river isn't itself a province border, it probably isn't a big enough river to affect movement and combat to that degree anyways.
 

TheMaster

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Because of the way the EU2 combat engine works, rivers either follow province borders or are absent. You therefore need to decide whether to shift river courses to the edge of a province or to just remove them.

Now rivers cross only 7 provinces (9, 10, 6, 13, 32, 22, 21).
 

Mad King James

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Do provinces 3, 4 and 5 really have to be seperate provinces?

Ditto for 6&7, 11-12&35, 1-2&33 and 15-16. Mazovia is a duchy, 2 provinces is fine. It does not need 5 provinces.

I can understand a 2 province Mazovia (for each Mazovian branch) and I could even be persuaded for a 2 province danzig/teutonic coast (though probably not considering they lost the whole bunch in one war) but otherwise it's just a waste.

Ideally, I'd rather Poland was divided by duchy, not modern province...
 

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Yes 3, 4, 5 should be separated. 6&7 never, 6 is Duchy of Masovia, 7 is Podlasia to 1513 A. D. this province is Lithuanian. 11 must be self province - this is Lublin (always Polish), 12 (Chelminskie) and 35 (Duchy of Belz) this is Polish - Lithuanian moot and we think that they should be self provinces. I wrote about Chelmno (33) and Warmia (1) above. 15 and 16 should be self for Polish - Turkish wars, for Cossacks wars and for partition.

Ideally, I'd rather Poland was divided by duchy, not modern province...

There are wojewodztwa not duchy, in EU 2 times Poland have modern administration partition than a few of European countries through the magnats.
 
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hildoceras

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how does a huge polish nation react to the centuries of revolts and low stab ? :confused:
If it is to see russians coming faster to the west I'd say stop, please.
 

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ahh well what the hell, might as well
I would like to hear a rationale why Lublin and its neighbors have to be their own provinces. AFAIK they're never independent during the period in question.
 

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Italia it is three times smaller and 29 provinces have.
29 province !!!
29 province !!!
29 province !!!
and cities in Africa are

and this partition of Poland and Lithuania is 100% historical because taken from maps
 

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Quendi said:
Italia it is three times smaller and 29 provinces have.
29 province !!!
29 province !!!
29 province !!!
and cities in Africa are

and this partition of Poland and Lithuania is 100% historical because taken from maps

Do you have any idea how many provinces I *could* have added to Italy and rationalized every one?

Oh about 50...
 

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U can add Bari, because there is possibility that it would be part of Poland :D
 
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I don't understand it why Polish-Lithuania Commonwealth has to have not more provinces than France? It was much bigger state in XVII centuary. I know that many people do know really little about its history especially in this period but it shouldn't be the reason for making Poland-Lithuania so few-provinces state in the new AGC-EEP version. :confused:
 
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Mad King James

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France is basically a worst-case scenario, ie even I think I have too many provinces in France right now, but I can't think of how to remove any without making the provinces over-large, removing large historical elements, or removing entire countries.

The reason I don't think it's a good idea to make a bunch of provinces around Danzig to make ONE WAR more interesting is the same reason I'm not making Metz a province just so France can grab something from Lorraine...

Provinces made only for perfectly modelling the post-partition borders similarily have only one purpose...

I want every province to have a purpose that doesn't revolve around a single war, event, or annexation.
 

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Mad King James said:
ahh well what the hell, might as well
I would like to hear a rationale why Lublin and its neighbors have to be their own provinces. AFAIK they're never independent during the period in question.
Yes Podlasia must to have province being Lithuanian land. May be it really possible to unite Chelmno and Pomorze, but Warmia must be represented for sure.

Also, I think you can divide the lands of 10, 11 and 13 a little in order to make the river more correct.

And it would be nice to have Riga (the trade center of the Lithuanian trade with Baltic and North European region) as an separate provice itself.


Finally, as TheMaster pointed the division of the Polish and Lithuanian lands was made based to the historcial administrative regions of 16-18 centuries (voivodships – this sistem was compeltle other from those in Western Europe).
 

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Mad King James said:
France is basically a worst-case scenario, ie even I think I have too many provinces in France right now, but I can't think of how to remove any without making the provinces over-large, removing large historical elements, or removing entire countries.

The reason I don't think it's a good idea to make a bunch of provinces around Danzig to make ONE WAR more interesting is the same reason I'm not making Metz a province just so France can grab something from Lorraine...

Provinces made only for perfectly modelling the post-partition borders similarily have only one purpose...

I want every province to have a purpose that doesn't revolve around a single war, event, or annexation.
Well, probably not only one war. These lands were a real stumbling-block during all 17 century at the relations between Poland-Lithuania, Sweden and Brandenburg-Prussia.
 

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Danzgi - was almost independent from Poland for long time.
 

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jozi02 said:
Danzgi - was almost independent from Poland for long time.
At last I remember it was war between Danzig and Poland at the time of King Stefan Bathory in 1570s?
 
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Let's face it many parts of Poland-Lithuania were areas of pernament battles and border disputations between P-L, OE, Moscow (Russia), Sweden since the second half of XVI till beginning of XVIII centuary. There are only few other regions of Europe that in the timeline of EUII were as much permanent
war theater as Poland-Lithuania. So it should have as much provinces as it was proposed by The Master. Also don't forget people that France from XVI centuary is only today France but Poland-Lithuania from the end of XVI centuary and from the beginning of the next centuary is nowadays: most of Poland, Bellorusia, big part of European Russia, most of Ukraine, Lithuania, Latvija...
 

Owen

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TheMaster said:
Now rivers cross only 7 provinces (9, 10, 6, 13, 32, 22, 21).
You need to redesign your map so that number is zero.

The only criterion for inclusion of rivers is their strategic impact on combat. Any river that is too strategically important to leave out that currently crosscuts one of your provinces, you need to readjust your map by either moving the province boundary or the river.
 

Quivis

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I don't think that 32provinces for a ~1/11th of Europen territory is too BIG :wacko: (even more we don't have Urals etc in Eu2) There were lots of battles in most of this provinces and some of them were rich too.