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TheMaster

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Here you have new map proposition for Poland and Lithuania from Polish players (eufi.org).

Source (map of Rzeczpospolita from 1629 A. D.)
poland-1629_202.jpg


List of provinces: (province - city)
1. Warmia - Elblag
2. Pomorze Gdanskie - Gdansk
3. Poznan - Poznan
4. Kalisz - Kalisz
5. Kujawy - Torun
6. Mazowsze - Warszawa
7. Podlasie - Drohiczyn
8. Sieradz - Sieradz
9. Krakow - Krakow
10. Sandomierz - Sandomierz
11. Lublin - Lublin
12. Chelm - Chelm
13. Rus - Lwow
14. Wolyn - Luck
15. Podole - Kamieniec Podolski
16. Braclaw - Braclaw
17. Kijow - Kijow
18. Czernichow - Chernichow
19. Smolensk - Smolensk
20. Mscislaw - Mscislaw
21. Witebsk - Witebsk
22. Polock - Polock
23. Minsk - Minsk
24. Brzeskolitewskie - Pinsk
25. Nowogrodek - Nowogrodek
26. Wilno - Wilno
27. Troki - Troki
28. Zmudz - Wornie
29. Kurlandia - Mitawa
30. Dyneburg - Dyneburg
31. Poltawa - Poltawa
32. Zaporoze - Kodak

We have hope that you agreed our proposition. We have many fans of AGCEEP Mod.

Map topic on our forum: http://eufi.org/viewtopic.php?p=59612#59612
 

Quendi

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I remind new
Holland = 10 province
England = 14 province
Scotland = 5 province
France = 36 province

According to this map

Poland = 10 province + 2 province (Teutonic 1465) + 1 Mazowsze(1525)
Lithuania = 17 province + 2 province (Teutonic 1560)

it is this historical partition
and it is this maximum size of these countries
 
Last edited:

Herr Doctor

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TheMaster said:
Here you have new map proposition for Poland and Lithuania from Polish players (eufi.org).

Source (map of Rzeczpospolita from 1629 A. D.)
poland-1629_202.jpg


List of provinces: (province - city)
1. Warmia - Elblag
2. Pomorze Gdanskie - Gdansk
3. Poznan - Poznan
4. Kalisz - Kalisz
5. Kujawy - Torun
6. Mazowsze - Warszawa
7. Podlasie - Drohiczyn
8. Sieradz - Sieradz
9. Krakow - Krakow
10. Sandomierz - Sandomierz
11. Lublin - Lublin
12. Chelm - Chelm
13. Rus - Lwow
14. Wolyn - Luck
15. Podole - Kamieniec Podolski
16. Braclaw - Braclaw
17. Kijow - Kijow
18. Czernichow - Chernichow
19. Smolensk - Smolensk
20. Mscislaw - Mscislaw
21. Witebsk - Witebsk
22. Polock - Polock
23. Minsk - Minsk
24. Brzeskolitewskie - Pinsk
25. Nowogrodek - Nowogrodek
26. Wilno - Wilno
27. Troki - Troki
28. Zmudz - Wornie
29. Kurlandia - Mitawa
30. Dyneburg - Dyneburg
31. Poltawa - Poltawa
32. Zaporoze - Kodak

We have hope that you agreed our proposition. We have many fans of AGCEEP Mod.

Map topic on our forum: http://eufi.org/viewtopic.php?p=59612#59612
I think Smolensk must be split into Smolensk and Bryansk, as here it looks really too big… Also, I see no reason why Lithuanian and Belarusian provinces should be named in polish transcription (Navagradak/Naugardukas or Vilnia/Vilnius (Bel/Lit))...
 

TheMaster

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I think Smolensk must be split into Smolensk and Bryansk, as here it looks really too big… Also, I see no reason why Lithuanian and Belarusian provinces should be named in polish transcription (Navagradak/Naugardukas or Vilnia/Vilnius (Bel/Lit))...

Yes Smolensk should be split. Provinces should have Polish translation because a few of this provinces be Polish for above 300 years and in historical sources (even non Polish) for this time Polish translation is dominant.
 

Herr Doctor

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TheMaster said:
Yes Smolensk should be split. Provinces should have Polish translation because a few of this provinces be Polish for above 300 years and in historical sources (even non Polish) for this time Polish translation is dominant.
As far as I know until 1696 the official state language of the Grand Duchy was old Ruthenian (named now sometimes old Belarusian, which is not correct). The map sources of 15-18 centuries are mostly in Latin. So?

And I personally do not remember when the lands of the Grand Duchy were under Polish suzerainty. At last the Polish-Lithuanian personal unions or the confederative Commonwealth do not prove this. I even do not speak about the ethnic side of the question.
 

unmerged(23960)

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As far as I know until 1696 the official state language of the Grand Duchy was old Ruthenian (named now sometimes old Belarusian, which is not correct). The map sources of 15-18 centuries are mostly in Latin. So?

And I personally do not remember when the lands of the Grand Duchy were under Polish suzerainty. At last the Polish-Lithuanian personal unions or the confederative Commonwealth do not prove this. I even do not speak about the ethnic side of the question.

Official, official, practic counts. Lithuanians spoke in Polish Language, almost all central europe spoke in this language, even Russian high nobility spoke in Polish language until XVII/XVIII century.

And Unions... Lithuanians de facto polonized themselves, they were different from Poles, but no a different nation, something like Ethnic group in Polish Nation. Lithuanians after I World War had to start create culture from almost nothing. Nobody spoke Lithuanian except small part of peasantry, and almost all buildings, traditions and art was Polish. It was hard to find something strictly Lithuanian:)
 

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Lukulus said:
Official, official, practic counts. Lithuanians spoke in Polish Language, almost all central europe spoke in this language, even Russian high nobility spoke in Polish language until XVII/XVIII century.

And Unions... Lithuanians de facto polonized themselves, they were different from Poles, but no a different nation, something like Ethnic group in Polish Nation. Lithuanians after I World War had to start create culture from almost nothing. Nobody spoke Lithuanian except small part of peasantry, and almost all buildings, traditions and art was Polish. It was hard to find something strictly Lithuanian:)
I advice you to adress to the work of Henrik Wisner or other academic Polish historians working at the “Lithuanian” field, instead of the Polish 1920-1930s propaganda. :) Without offensive, really. ;)
 

unmerged(23960)

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I advice you to adress to the work of Henrik Wisner or other academic Polish historians working at the “Lithuanian” field, instead of the Polish 1920-1930s propaganda. Without offensive, really.
No it is not propaganda, but truth. Henrik Wisner... O gosh... You must be kidding:)
 

unmerged(34273)

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To aboid this quarrel bout names and languages it has been ruled and accepted that all names are to be present day english. Take a lokk at finland. Was definatly ruled by sweden the entire period and most cities founded and inhabited by swedes and yet I have heard no swede complaining about the names being on finnish and it should. Every city and county has several names and if we dont one language for all this will become a reason for quarrel among us. Bet the belo russians the lithuanians and the poles all have a different names and good reasons for theirs being the right ones.

CAnt we just agree the english will be the only one. And thereby let Åbo be called Turko..... (yiek sounds really wrong)
 

chegitz guevara

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Stupid, pointless arguments like this are the reason why all names are written in English. So we don't have to wade through a million different posts as to why their nationalist BS is the way and the truth and everyone else's nationalst BS is the greatest heresy ever to defile humanity.

All names are in English in AGCEEP.
 

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BueDigre said:
To aboid this quarrel bout names and languages it has been ruled and accepted that all names are to be present day english. Take a lokk at finland. Was definatly ruled by sweden the entire period and most cities founded and inhabited by swedes and yet I have heard no swede complaining about the names being on finnish and it should. Every city and county has several names and if we dont one language for all this will become a reason for quarrel among us. Bet the belo russians the lithuanians and the poles all have a different names and good reasons for theirs being the right ones.

CAnt we just agree the english will be the only one. And thereby let Åbo be called Turko..... (yiek sounds really wrong)
Good point. So how you will name 24-26 provinces in English? :) it’s still no constant spelling of these historical provinces in English as far as I know. And that’s a problem from what language to make such transcriptions to English. :)
 

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Herr Doctor said:
Good point. So how you will name 24-26 provinces in English? :) it’s still no constant spelling of these historical provinces in English as far as I know. And that’s a problem from what language to make such transcriptions to English. :)

Quite easy take a look in britannica or a english atlas. Those are the nam,es we will use wether or not the origin in this or that language. As stated in my example above Turko is the present day english name for the finnish city in the west. This name of course comes from the finnish language and not the english or the swedish but since its the name used in english then it will be the name we use
 

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TheMaster said:
Yes, but when province don't have Latin name authors used Polish.
not always. Look for example on some Blaeu's atlases.


However, may be it was mistake from my side to raise this flame war. ;)
 

TheMaster

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Final map version (most historical and practical [for peace events etc.]):

mapafinal.jpg


List od provinces:

1. Warmia - Elblag
2. Pomorze - Malbork
3. Poznan - Poznan
4. Kalisz - Kalisz
5. Kujawy - Torun
6. Mazowsze - Warszawa
7. Podlasie - Drohiczyn
8. Sieradz - Sieradz
9. Krakow - Krakow
10. Sandomierz - Sandomierz
11. Lublin - Lublin
12. Chelm - Chelm
13. Rus - Lwow
14. Wolyn - Luck
15. Podole - Kamieniec Podolski
16. Braclaw - Braclaw
17. Kijow - Kijow
18. Czernichow - Chernichow
19. Smolensk - Smolensk
20. Mscislaw - Mscislaw
21. Witebsk - Witebsk
22. Polock - Polock
23. Minsk - Minsk
24. Brzeskolitewskie - Pinsk
25. Nowogrodek - Nowogrodek
26. Wilno - Wilno
27. Troki - Troki
28. Zmudz - Wornie
29. Kurlandia - Mitawa
30. Dyneburg - Dyneburg
31. Poltawa - Poltawa
32. Zaporoze - Kodak
33. Chelmno - Chelmno
34. Gdansk - Gdansk
35. Belz - Belz
36. Nowogrod Siewierski - Nowogrod Siewierski
37. Lower Prussia - Masuren (Szczytno)
38. Upper Prussia - Koenigsberg (Królewiec)
39. Zytomierz - Zytomierz

If (only if :) ) Danzig (34) is too small you can merge it with Pomorze (2).
 
Last edited:

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Yes, i know - it is a problem with rivers. But in a some polish voivodships (wojewodztwa) like Masovia (with Warsaw) or Lesser Poland (with Cracow) the river goes through the centre of province.

You want to partition this prowince for 2 parts? - litlle strange results...
You want to merge parts of diffrent provinces? Terrible...
You want to change the rivers route? The bad idea...
;)
 

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chegitz guevara said:
That's an awful lot of provinces.
really it's not. If it goes to Poland, Baltic region and Western Lithuania - there are rather rich and populated regions. So, I see no reason why this region cannot be represented historically.

The other problem is indeed rivers :)