There are things I like about monuments, and things I dislike about them, and I think it's on the verge of being too many monuments in the world atm but in a few regions or special instances I still think there are room for monuments, especially scandinavia.
Scandinavia might be one of the most underrated region in regards to monuments, only having the Heddal stave churches, which granted are pretty cool things but are also pretty poor representation of what was going on in Scandinavia in the early modern era with limited importance.
Really scandinavia feels like it's represented like mongolia where people were nomads and stuff, only featuring an old woden church from befroe the era as the only monuments. Also as a monument it's only really useful if you plan a one faith or a religiously oriented semi-wc like doing the norwegian wood run without getting humanist
Now there are heaps of very possible monuments to represent in scandinavia. Assuming pdx hasn't already planned out a scandinavia thread or made a secret ban on new monuments this could hopefully be of some use.
My top 2 monuments to add in Scandinavia is Krogen/the sound toll and Falu coppermine/the swedish metal industry.
Funnily enough both thigns are represented as existing provicne modifiers showing how important they are.
Now an almost unique situation where small countries with low population managed to become serious contenders on the international scene in the early modern era is intimately tied to the monuments I suggest.
Let's start with Krogen (or Kronoborg) as it was later called.
Krogen was built to collect the Öresund toll and also as general protection from naval attacks. Currently the öresund toll is represented as a +20% trade power boost. This is really not what the sound toll was but since we odn't have mechanics to represent it in other ways it'll has to suffice, now that number is by no mean an exaggeration of the importance of the sound toll.
en.wikipedia.org
en.wikipedia.org
The toll accounted for 2/3 of the nation danish income in the 16th and 17th century. Just the toll, not the entire dansi htrade. I know euiv is not actually representative of reality (that'd be impossible so not meant as a critique) but in start the trade economy of denmark corresponds to 1/4 of the countries income.
this is my take on Kronoborg (which I guess would be the best name to use as it's the current name of the castle)
Next up is Falu coppermine. Now the coppermines are not just a hole in the ground, it was a massive industry employing thousands of people and at it's height producing it was responsible for 70% of the copper production in europe
en.wikipedia.org
visitworldheritage.com
By this logic it should be possible to assume that the goods produced in Falun should corresponds to 70% of all copper produced in europe, comparing with other copper provinces, but well that's not how the game works (again not a criticism) but I think it is notable that it should be a massive source of wealth as it historically was of utmost importance to sweden.
Now problem with the copper mine is the ban on new provinces which were taken after 1.31 destroyed performance for EUIV. Issue here is that the current modifier is in the wrong province. While it could simply be moved to Bergslagen where it should properly be, it messes with the area modifiers I was planning on and as it's unlikely that PDX even consider moving provicnes between areas I will keep the monument incorrectly in Dalaskogen province (Now this is intended as criticism against the developers ill-adviced decision to ban new provinces when the world map is so unbalanced, unfinished and contaisn multiple errors nadm istakes, imagine the number of mistakes globally when they don't even get thigns correct in sweden where the game was originally produced XD). Though if possible there should be a shuffling of areas with the monument placed in bergslagen rather than dalaskogen, and bergdlagen made into an area together with Närke.
Also the current event about wallonian immigrants should be changed as it is anyway kinda odd having permanent modifiers for some immigrants.
I will also assume a peasant estate will be added for scandinavian countries and some other countries as I discuss in this very poorly spelt thread https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/threads/a-case-for-peasant-estate.1405931/
Well over to the modifiers.
These are by far my main candidates to add for scandinavia, but there are many other possible monuments, some I will mention (though only gonna mention their possible level three modifiers)
So well, quite a few monuments suggested. I would hope that Falun and Kronoborg and 1-2 others are added.
I really think there is an ice idea with monuments, as it makes incentives to play along certain provinces as countries historically did. As now terrain, trade goods, starting dev and other modifiers makes those incentives, but monuments were quite an interesting addition to that. It's a nice idea to have natural places to develop into naval bases (karlskrona) or strongholds (danevirke) but the stiffness of the current system of monuments are kinda unbalancing it. Since monuments are so expensive, only the good ones are really worth investing in, while some of the good ones are so good due to crazy global modifers (Alahmbra especially) that it becomes th most important provicne in the world basically. I tihnk there should be more variation to monuments, more monuments focusing on local/areal effects and cheaper to upgrade would make more nice flavor for regions and role playing for example
Anyway, tagging @fredrikslicer and @Entrone for feedback
Scandinavia might be one of the most underrated region in regards to monuments, only having the Heddal stave churches, which granted are pretty cool things but are also pretty poor representation of what was going on in Scandinavia in the early modern era with limited importance.
Really scandinavia feels like it's represented like mongolia where people were nomads and stuff, only featuring an old woden church from befroe the era as the only monuments. Also as a monument it's only really useful if you plan a one faith or a religiously oriented semi-wc like doing the norwegian wood run without getting humanist
Now there are heaps of very possible monuments to represent in scandinavia. Assuming pdx hasn't already planned out a scandinavia thread or made a secret ban on new monuments this could hopefully be of some use.
My top 2 monuments to add in Scandinavia is Krogen/the sound toll and Falu coppermine/the swedish metal industry.
Funnily enough both thigns are represented as existing provicne modifiers showing how important they are.
Now an almost unique situation where small countries with low population managed to become serious contenders on the international scene in the early modern era is intimately tied to the monuments I suggest.
Let's start with Krogen (or Kronoborg) as it was later called.
Krogen was built to collect the Öresund toll and also as general protection from naval attacks. Currently the öresund toll is represented as a +20% trade power boost. This is really not what the sound toll was but since we odn't have mechanics to represent it in other ways it'll has to suffice, now that number is by no mean an exaggeration of the importance of the sound toll.
Sound Dues - Wikipedia
Kronborg - Wikipedia
The toll accounted for 2/3 of the nation danish income in the 16th and 17th century. Just the toll, not the entire dansi htrade. I know euiv is not actually representative of reality (that'd be impossible so not meant as a critique) but in start the trade economy of denmark corresponds to 1/4 of the countries income.
this is my take on Kronoborg (which I guess would be the best name to use as it's the current name of the castle)
Starts at level 1
Noteworthy level:
Provincial modifier:
+20 local trade power
+50% hostile disembark time
+1% hostile fleet attrition
+10% garrison size
Significant Level:
Provincial modifier:
+30 local trade power
+100% hostile disembark time
+2% hostile fleet attrition
+20% garrison size
Area modifier:
local trade power +5% (representing that denmark also took tolls in other islands in the different sounds they controlled)
when upgrade gain 2% crown land (representing how the sound toll made the danish king relatively independent from the aristocracy in order to funtion)
Magnificient level
Provincial modifier:
+40 local trade power
+200% hostile disembark time
+5% hostile fleet attrition
+30% garrison size
Area modifier:
+10% local trade power
When upgraded gain +5% crown land
In short, it's focused on being a powerful trade center and a naval defence.
The trade is powerful but not insane considering the cost to get it, copenhagen gets +40 provincial trade power +10% provincial trade modifier (applying to the entire area)
The naval defense bonuses are on paper powerful but very niche considering the unimportance of a lot of naval play, but considering the position of Själland as a province it could have some use. I'm also considering adding blockade force required, but I think that be stacking too many modifiers on the province (though still not really making the monument that much more powerful. I updated it to include garrison size aswell as it had a signficant garrison stationed at the castle. Basically all these defensive bonuses are so situational, I wouldn't really mind stacking even more of them as they're only useful in keeping the ccity form being conquered.
I'm also considered giving it some smal global trade bonus (1/2/5). Let me know what you think if you are reading this.
Getting some crown lands is nice-ich but kinda marginal (7 in total)
Noteworthy level:
Provincial modifier:
+20 local trade power
+50% hostile disembark time
+1% hostile fleet attrition
+10% garrison size
Significant Level:
Provincial modifier:
+30 local trade power
+100% hostile disembark time
+2% hostile fleet attrition
+20% garrison size
Area modifier:
local trade power +5% (representing that denmark also took tolls in other islands in the different sounds they controlled)
when upgrade gain 2% crown land (representing how the sound toll made the danish king relatively independent from the aristocracy in order to funtion)
Magnificient level
Provincial modifier:
+40 local trade power
+200% hostile disembark time
+5% hostile fleet attrition
+30% garrison size
Area modifier:
+10% local trade power
When upgraded gain +5% crown land
In short, it's focused on being a powerful trade center and a naval defence.
The trade is powerful but not insane considering the cost to get it, copenhagen gets +40 provincial trade power +10% provincial trade modifier (applying to the entire area)
The naval defense bonuses are on paper powerful but very niche considering the unimportance of a lot of naval play, but considering the position of Själland as a province it could have some use. I'm also considering adding blockade force required, but I think that be stacking too many modifiers on the province (though still not really making the monument that much more powerful. I updated it to include garrison size aswell as it had a signficant garrison stationed at the castle. Basically all these defensive bonuses are so situational, I wouldn't really mind stacking even more of them as they're only useful in keeping the ccity form being conquered.
I'm also considered giving it some smal global trade bonus (1/2/5). Let me know what you think if you are reading this.
Getting some crown lands is nice-ich but kinda marginal (7 in total)
Next up is Falu coppermine. Now the coppermines are not just a hole in the ground, it was a massive industry employing thousands of people and at it's height producing it was responsible for 70% of the copper production in europe
Falun Mine - Wikipedia
Mining Area of the Great Copper Mountain in Falun, Sweden | World Heritage Journeys of Europe
A tour of the Falun mine is a trip through history - it was once one of the world’s most important mining areas. The mine dates back over 1,000 years and at its peak in the 17th century, it accounted for 70% of the western world’s copper production. As the major producer of copper, Sweden...
Now problem with the copper mine is the ban on new provinces which were taken after 1.31 destroyed performance for EUIV. Issue here is that the current modifier is in the wrong province. While it could simply be moved to Bergslagen where it should properly be, it messes with the area modifiers I was planning on and as it's unlikely that PDX even consider moving provicnes between areas I will keep the monument incorrectly in Dalaskogen province (Now this is intended as criticism against the developers ill-adviced decision to ban new provinces when the world map is so unbalanced, unfinished and contaisn multiple errors nadm istakes, imagine the number of mistakes globally when they don't even get thigns correct in sweden where the game was originally produced XD). Though if possible there should be a shuffling of areas with the monument placed in bergslagen rather than dalaskogen, and bergdlagen made into an area together with Närke.
Also the current event about wallonian immigrants should be changed as it is anyway kinda odd having permanent modifiers for some immigrants.
I will also assume a peasant estate will be added for scandinavian countries and some other countries as I discuss in this very poorly spelt thread https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/threads/a-case-for-peasant-estate.1405931/
Well over to the modifiers.
Starts at level 1 (could have mission to upgrade it to level 2)
Noteworthy level:
Provincial modifier:
+5 goods produced
+5% goods produced
Significant Level:
Provincial modifier:
+5 goods produced
+10% goods produced
Area modifier:
+0.2 goods produced
Global Modifier:
+5% peasant estate loyalty
+5% peasant estate influence
OR if no peasant estate is added:
-10% cost to promote mercantilism
Upon construction grants +5% peasant loyalty OR +1 mercantilism
Magnificient level
Provincial modifier:
+5 goods produced
+20% goods produced
Area modifier:
+0.5 goods produced
Global Modifier:
+10% peasant estate loyalty
+10% peasant estate influence
OR if no peasant estate is added:
-20% cost to promote mercantilism
Upon construction grants +10% peasant loyalty OR +2 mercantilism
So this was a bit harder for me to balance, as I'm not that hardcore of a numbers guy, and since the peasant estate has not been designed though I imagine a peasant estate would probably have %goods produced as one of it's modifier. Though basically falun copper mine gives a constant of +5 goods produced (which is what it currently does as well) which is really good (corresponding to 25 base production or 5 manufactories) with upgrading it increasing the percentage of goods produced
(see wiki if you want to see the math https://eu4.paradoxwikis.com/Trade_goods#Base_goods_produced )
though also giving a small areal bonus of 0.5 goods produced (corresponding to 2.5 base production)
I was considering having higher numbers but it really comes down also to how the peasant estate would be made. I also considered adding some trade bonus to the provinces but alas, there are so many modifiers to play withchoices has to be made and I imagine it to be rather well balanced atm)
Noteworthy level:
Provincial modifier:
+5 goods produced
+5% goods produced
Significant Level:
Provincial modifier:
+5 goods produced
+10% goods produced
Area modifier:
+0.2 goods produced
Global Modifier:
+5% peasant estate loyalty
+5% peasant estate influence
OR if no peasant estate is added:
-10% cost to promote mercantilism
Upon construction grants +5% peasant loyalty OR +1 mercantilism
Magnificient level
Provincial modifier:
+5 goods produced
+20% goods produced
Area modifier:
+0.5 goods produced
Global Modifier:
+10% peasant estate loyalty
+10% peasant estate influence
OR if no peasant estate is added:
-20% cost to promote mercantilism
Upon construction grants +10% peasant loyalty OR +2 mercantilism
So this was a bit harder for me to balance, as I'm not that hardcore of a numbers guy, and since the peasant estate has not been designed though I imagine a peasant estate would probably have %goods produced as one of it's modifier. Though basically falun copper mine gives a constant of +5 goods produced (which is what it currently does as well) which is really good (corresponding to 25 base production or 5 manufactories) with upgrading it increasing the percentage of goods produced
(see wiki if you want to see the math https://eu4.paradoxwikis.com/Trade_goods#Base_goods_produced )
though also giving a small areal bonus of 0.5 goods produced (corresponding to 2.5 base production)
I was considering having higher numbers but it really comes down also to how the peasant estate would be made. I also considered adding some trade bonus to the provinces but alas, there are so many modifiers to play withchoices has to be made and I imagine it to be rather well balanced atm)
These are by far my main candidates to add for scandinavia, but there are many other possible monuments, some I will mention (though only gonna mention their possible level three modifiers)
Having a significant history as sweden's major naval base and having been designed for this explicit purpose it was a very unique city at it's times, The naval city of Karlskrona in Blekinge would be a worthy addition
en.wikipedia.org
Starts at level 0
Magnificient level
Provincial modifier:
+250 sailors
-20% ship cost
+20% ship repair
Global Modifier:
+1 yearly navy tradition
+10% national sailor
problem with designing a naval monument is that usually the modifiers are quite easy to get by on their own.
Blekinge already has naval supplies as trade goods (+0.5 naval forcelimit, and get's double benefit from impressment offices (500 sailors)
Just on it's own with the right building (grand shipyard, drydock and impressment offices) it would get
+500 sailor
+100% sailors
-50% shipbuilding time
+50% ship repair
+4.5 naval force limit
So adding modifiers to that is kinda tricky as it's jsut more of what it already is and in general I'm kidna sceptical about powerful global modifiers from monuments. So really just throwing in basically the same modifiers again.
Karlskrona - Wikipedia
Magnificient level
Provincial modifier:
+250 sailors
-20% ship cost
+20% ship repair
Global Modifier:
+1 yearly navy tradition
+10% national sailor
problem with designing a naval monument is that usually the modifiers are quite easy to get by on their own.
Blekinge already has naval supplies as trade goods (+0.5 naval forcelimit, and get's double benefit from impressment offices (500 sailors)
Just on it's own with the right building (grand shipyard, drydock and impressment offices) it would get
+500 sailor
+100% sailors
-50% shipbuilding time
+50% ship repair
+4.5 naval force limit
So adding modifiers to that is kinda tricky as it's jsut more of what it already is and in general I'm kidna sceptical about powerful global modifiers from monuments. So really just throwing in basically the same modifiers again.
Kinda used on and off for centuries from the viking age, not that important but still the danes would try to use it as late as the second schleswig war in 1864, it is kind of interestign as a key defence point reaching into denmark/scandinavia fro mthe continent, but definitly lower priority than places mentioned already. Starts in schleswig at level 1
en.wikipedia.org
Noteworthy level (only throwing in this level as it's supposed to start at it)
province modifier
+1 hostile attrition
-10% hostile movement speed
Global modifier
-10% fort maintenance on border with rival
Magnificient level
province modifier
+1 hostile attrition
+20% defensivness
-20% hostile movement speed
area modifier
+0.5 hostile attrition
global modifier
-30% fort maintenence on border with rival
-0.3% army tradition decay
Kinda ok if you want to make schleswig a defensive point, combine those numbers with forts and ramparts and local edicts and for sure danevirke be pretty annoying for any invader. I added the army tradition decay because I felt it needed something to make it a bit more, and having badass army fortification stretching across a peninsula can be something cool I guess keeping the military occupied. I also toyed with some other minor modifiers
Danevirke - Wikipedia
Noteworthy level (only throwing in this level as it's supposed to start at it)
province modifier
+1 hostile attrition
-10% hostile movement speed
Global modifier
-10% fort maintenance on border with rival
Magnificient level
province modifier
+1 hostile attrition
+20% defensivness
-20% hostile movement speed
area modifier
+0.5 hostile attrition
global modifier
-30% fort maintenence on border with rival
-0.3% army tradition decay
Kinda ok if you want to make schleswig a defensive point, combine those numbers with forts and ramparts and local edicts and for sure danevirke be pretty annoying for any invader. I added the army tradition decay because I felt it needed something to make it a bit more, and having badass army fortification stretching across a peninsula can be something cool I guess keeping the military occupied. I also toyed with some other minor modifiers
Or Soumenlinna in finnish, but since it was built by swedes and controlled by sweden until 1809 it should be called Sveaborg (or have dynamic names)
Very important naval base for both the later days of the swedish rule in finland and during russian rule In Nyland province starts at level 0
en.wikipedia.org
Magnificient level
Provincial modifier:
+100% blockade force required
Area modifier:
Global Modifier:
+30% naval force limit
-10% admiral cost
Again a bit difficult to make decent modifiers, it is a castle built to defend both from sea and land, from sea makes sense for baltic domination but form land it's not in an ideal fortress position, so adding defensivness feels redundant. So mostly focused on naval bonuses, again local naval bonuses (shipbuilding time, repair) are rather small and can be covered by shipyards. So very tentative numbers (again I don't like too many powerful global modifiers for monuments)
Very important naval base for both the later days of the swedish rule in finland and during russian rule In Nyland province starts at level 0
Suomenlinna - Wikipedia
Magnificient level
Provincial modifier:
+100% blockade force required
Area modifier:
Global Modifier:
+30% naval force limit
-10% admiral cost
Again a bit difficult to make decent modifiers, it is a castle built to defend both from sea and land, from sea makes sense for baltic domination but form land it's not in an ideal fortress position, so adding defensivness feels redundant. So mostly focused on naval bonuses, again local naval bonuses (shipbuilding time, repair) are rather small and can be covered by shipyards. So very tentative numbers (again I don't like too many powerful global modifiers for monuments)
Located on a small island in the white sea, being part of Soroka province, this island with it's fortified monastery sports quite an interesting history and would be an interesting addition to the game, though bit weird https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solovetsky_Monastery
Starts at level 1 but I'll only run through magnificent level
Magnificient level
Provincial modifier:
+5% hostile navy attrition (fortified monastery on an island)
Area modifier:
+10% local tradepower (representing monks trading and holding land)
+1% hostile attrition (representing fortifications and anyway karelia be really high on attrition, just makes sense for the area
Global Modifier:
0.5% yearly patriarch authority (I considered making this orthodox exclusive, but by making patriarch authority one of the main modifiers it becomes rather redundant for anyone else.
Starts at level 1 but I'll only run through magnificent level
Magnificient level
Provincial modifier:
+5% hostile navy attrition (fortified monastery on an island)
Area modifier:
+10% local tradepower (representing monks trading and holding land)
+1% hostile attrition (representing fortifications and anyway karelia be really high on attrition, just makes sense for the area
Global Modifier:
0.5% yearly patriarch authority (I considered making this orthodox exclusive, but by making patriarch authority one of the main modifiers it becomes rather redundant for anyone else.
Riga and Tallin were both major cities in northern europe, part of the hanseatic league. I think one of them deserves to be a monument/great work, so I desing the modifier a bit loosely for either city. Start at level 1-2 but only covering magnificent level
Magnificient level
Provincial modifier:
+20% local trade power (maybe more relevant if tallin is choosen as riga is already a CoT)
Area modifier:
-0.2 monthly autonomy
-50% state maintainence
-50% province governing cost
Global Modifier:
+10% burgher loyalty
Designed to make the area it is placed in more lucrative to maintain, as in game the baltics are negligible, but in history was very sought after by surrounding powers. The local trade power given from the province is not enough to make it that powerful, but making it so much easier to maintain either as a state or in a trade company + bit of burgher loyalty is nice.
Edit: I come to consider Riga the most relevant city to be the monument. It's the bigger and more important city and it syncronize well with Riga being a CoT
Magnificient level
Provincial modifier:
+20% local trade power (maybe more relevant if tallin is choosen as riga is already a CoT)
Area modifier:
-0.2 monthly autonomy
-50% state maintainence
-50% province governing cost
Global Modifier:
+10% burgher loyalty
Designed to make the area it is placed in more lucrative to maintain, as in game the baltics are negligible, but in history was very sought after by surrounding powers. The local trade power given from the province is not enough to make it that powerful, but making it so much easier to maintain either as a state or in a trade company + bit of burgher loyalty is nice.
Edit: I come to consider Riga the most relevant city to be the monument. It's the bigger and more important city and it syncronize well with Riga being a CoT
Really just to round of the list.
Bryggen, Norway, hanseatic trade dockyard in Bergen. Would give naval and trade bonuses. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bryggen
Thingvellir, place of the parliament in iceland where laws where made. Would give bonuses to thigns liek republican tradition and managing the area of iceland (so yeah rather worthless)
Bryggen, Norway, hanseatic trade dockyard in Bergen. Would give naval and trade bonuses. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bryggen
Thingvellir, place of the parliament in iceland where laws where made. Would give bonuses to thigns liek republican tradition and managing the area of iceland (so yeah rather worthless)
So well, quite a few monuments suggested. I would hope that Falun and Kronoborg and 1-2 others are added.
I really think there is an ice idea with monuments, as it makes incentives to play along certain provinces as countries historically did. As now terrain, trade goods, starting dev and other modifiers makes those incentives, but monuments were quite an interesting addition to that. It's a nice idea to have natural places to develop into naval bases (karlskrona) or strongholds (danevirke) but the stiffness of the current system of monuments are kinda unbalancing it. Since monuments are so expensive, only the good ones are really worth investing in, while some of the good ones are so good due to crazy global modifers (Alahmbra especially) that it becomes th most important provicne in the world basically. I tihnk there should be more variation to monuments, more monuments focusing on local/areal effects and cheaper to upgrade would make more nice flavor for regions and role playing for example
Anyway, tagging @fredrikslicer and @Entrone for feedback
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