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I recently made a thread on yazidis, suggesting an implementation of their religion and a political set up. The thread was decently well researched and IMO a good thread, I kept reading about yazidism and kurdish history though, focusing on the kurdish minority religions of ahl-e-haqq (yarsanism) and alevism. Improving my knowledge on these three religions and an improved overview on general kurdish history prompts me to make a new, better suggestion. Sorry for the spam but I think this is some good content I'm suggesting.

This thread will be fairly long, with some discussions on the interpreting the source material to make this thread.

Let's look at some general changes:
Kurdish tags (except possibly hasn keyf) and luristan now starts as tribal federation, this is much more appropriate government forms for those tags

Kurds should get unique mission branch focusing on uniting kurdistan,

I'm thinking kurdish ideas should also have religious unity in them to deal with the very diverse lands they rule.

Understanding religion:


The area in question Kurdistan was extremely religious diverse, in 1500 maybe as little as one third of the population would be orthodox sunni muslims with the rest being either assyrians/syriacs, jews or belonging to some of the cults in the region, Yazidism, Ahl-i-haqq, alevi-kilizbash or smaller sects like shabaki etc,

Assyrians/syriac were in decline at this time but it's still likely that they do deserve having a few provinces with their culture and religion, particular population centres would be mosul and surrounding plain, southern hakkari, around batman and siirt, around mardin, midyat and nusaybin. To keep myself from loosing it when making this suggestion I'm not including assyrians in it. What makes it difficult to make conclusive statements on demographics is of course the lack of exact data and population censuses, which will be something I'm trying to consider when making this suggestion.

Setting aside assyrians* and jews, and focusing (primarily) on kurds they were within themselves a religiously diverse group. Understanding their different religions and finding reliable sources needs some work, as the topic is generally under researched (until around 2010 foreign sources still refers to yazidis as devil-worshipper for example) , the ahl-i-haqq are famously so secretive that there are no contemporary sources of their founder (sultan sohak) and their beginnings as a religion.

*EDIT august 2021: After reading more about the region, but some general mentions in litterature and articles I came across + two books This one https://www.amazon.se/Forgotten-Genocide-Eastern-Christians-Arameans/dp/1593330774 which I got a swedish translation off from my library and a swedish language book "Korset och Halvmånen" by Ingmar Karlsson I'm convinced of the accuracy of the set up with Mardin beign coptic assyrian/syriac and Hakkari/Tyare being independent nestorian assyrian in the mountains

Another difficulty on researching this topic is the bias or understanding of religions like ahl-i-haqq and alevism and their relationship to islam. So for example there are contemporary movements to distance these religions from islam and make a case for them, together with yazidism being surviving forms of pre-islamic kurdish religion (often refered to as yazdanism or cult of angels).


Reading from page 137 in this book https://books.google.ro/books?id=I9...ce=gbs_ge_summary_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q&f=false discusses the cult of angel from a perspective I find dubious and claims yazdanism to be thousands of years old and the modern variations of it being a result of yazdanism “swallowing” other religions (shiism in particular). It is the style of writing, and how easily the book makes large statements about kurdish history, which while not necessarily untrue, are far from being backed up by historical sources and mainstream historical academia which makes this book and a lot of books and articles of similar style dubious, though still to some extent useful.


To mention a few other things I read that shows how sceptical I can be reading about this topic: A phd thesis I skimmed suggests that ahl-i-haqq is mithraism that basically replaced mithras name with Ali and added some influences from islam. Another articles claims that the avestani language, in which zarathusta wrote the core theology of zoroastrianism is actually an early form of kurdish.

On the other hand we have books like https://books.google.ro/books?id=WY...Q6AEwAHoECAQQAg#v=onepage&q=yarsanism&f=false
Edit: as compelte pdf http://hindiurduflagship.org/wp/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/Extremist-Shiites.pdf

Which discusses most of these religions as ghulat (exaggerated) sects of shia islam. While these sects (in the book discussing alevis-qizilbash-bektashi, ahl-i-haqq, alewites in syria and several smaller sects) have a lot in common and all deify Imam Ali, have syncretic elements with paganism/folklore and christianity at it's core a sects of shia islam, although exaggerated to the point there it can be discussed if they're still muslims. I guess a comparison would be to ask whether christianity is it's own religion or a jewish sect. Christianity started out as a jewish sect but developed into it's own religion deviating theologically and in terms of identity from judaism and because of it's large success was able to do so. These heterodox shia beliefs have never reached the influence of christianity and mostly remains minorities in the larger muslim world and thus haven't been able to take the step up form being an islamic sect to becoming it's own religions (very debatable statement, many members of these religious groups do not consider themselves muslims, nor do a lot of muslims consider them muslims, but it's not unanimous in either camp). There were thus many ways to interpret the source material to make up a representation good for the game and not wholly inconsistent/erroneus from the source material.

My conclusion is to make two new religions for the game, one is yazidism which will be part of the iranian religion group. They're the sect which are the most distinct from islam. The other groups, will all be put together into a religion which have no common name, though possibilities include Ghulat (meaning exaggerator/extremist and is not used by the groups themselves), batini/battiniyya (concept within islam focusing on more esoteric aspects of the religion), alevi (as all groups deify ali) which have been used as an exonym for all groups in my suggestion + some groups I do not includei n my terminology https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aleviler.

EDIT: I have started to lean towards using the term Alevi, I think it's adequate, it doesn't really risk being mixed up with other religions, unlike batini which could also be used to denote ismaili groups.
maronites.1194552/

I think it might be a point to adress, there are many similarities between ismaili groups (especially certain sub-sects) and my alevi group, but ultimately the ismaili fall within islam and have a different bakcground/path.
However there are a few points to address.
Ismaili at the time was in steep decline after the end of the fatimid caliphate and the nizari state of Alamut (the assasins).
In game there are a handful tag using the ismaili school (about 5). 2 of them use ismaili not because they were ismaili but rather ismaili is used as any exaggerated/esoteric shia religion, I'm talking specifically about qara qoyunly and mushasha.
Qara Qoyunly was one tribe ruling over a vast any multi-religious realm, the religion of the QQ themselves are relatively unknown but have been described as some form of shia twelverism although not very advanced, i.e. religion were not very formalized, there could be an argument for making this into alevi, but afaik the QQ don't ft the other concepts that unite my alevi groups, i.e. deification of Ali, belief in reincarnation, the relationship to certain saints and holy people, so I would make QQ jafari.

Mushasha is really it's own sect of shia islam, with the mushasha (Muhammed Ibn Falah) declaring himself the Mahdi (the messiah basically). So while being an exaggerated shia sect, they also (to my extent) do the other things that categorize my Alevi fate, so I would have them as Jafari as that's where their origin as a group is, or make them there own sect



Also the druze religion which developed out of ismailism is distinct and I do not believe fit in in my group, I have a suggestion of it's own on how to treat lebanon's and it's unique religious nature https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/threads/lebanon-druze-and-
It does share certain traits such as the belief in reincarnation, but also since the group wouldn't actually be the majoirty in a province, but rather share a provicne with other shia groups it's enough to implement my suggestion (or similiar) to represent them in vanilla game

EDIT august 2021: I'm suggesting renaming the ismaili school to batini to make it less specific and allow it to represent more broadly esoteric shia islam that is still within the limits of shia ´druze

Let's start with the new map set up:
Skärmbild (111).png

Nothing radical with only 4 new provinces added to the game and the hakkari wasteland made into a new province with some tweaks to existing
Redrawn provinces (purple):
Sinjar get's a little big bigger and now have kurdish culture and yazidi faith, belonging to the OPM Dasini that follows yazidi religion
1: Hakkari is no longer a wasteland but belongs to Bitlis, culture kurdish or assyrian nowstarts as assyrian OPM Hakkari/Tyare
2: Khoy have now been moved west, losing land to tabriz (3) but eating up remaining wasteland. Khow now starts with kurdish culture and yazidi religion, it belongs to the Donboli tag which follows yazidi religion

New provinces (Black)
1: Efrin province, kurdish culture and yazidi religion, belongs to mamluks but have Kilis as a releasable tag
2: Cizre province, kurdish culture and sunni religion, belongs to Bohtan (starts independent)
3: Dohuk province, extremely diverse province but for this suggestion I go kurdish culture, yazidi religion, center of religion modifier and belongs to bitlis but have a core for Dasini*
4: Tunceli province, kurdish culture Alevireligion, belongs to AQ but has core for Bingöl**


EDIT august 2021: Not only Donboli but also the Mahmudi tribe was yazidi, in this particular point in time they'd briefly taken over the area of the emirate of hakkari, a significant stretch of land to the southeast of van city, I would have this represented as Van province, enlarged with parts of the hakkari mountains (my assyrian province should shrink in size a bit) belong to donboli tag (cultureremains armenian)
Also become more certain of the having Efrin as yazidi

*Dohuk province would in the 15th century host both a yazidi principality, Sheikhan based in lalish and dohuk, and a muslim principality, Amadiya, as well as many subject assyrian tribes. I would let Amadiya have yazidi religion but be ruled by kurdish sunni muslims as they just been razed by them quite heavily, though sheikan wouldn't be annexed until 16th century
**I would rename this province to Cemisgezek and have it start as an independent kurdish emirate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emirate_of_Çemişgezek
state religion be shafi sinnism, but provincial religion alevi, as the province is home to alevis and qizilbash and would join Shah Ismail

Additional provinces that will have Alevi religion:
Sivas, divrigi, Ardabil, Ilam, Kirmanshah, Tarabulus al-sham, ardalan, khoramabad and teke (teke was a center of shiism/bektashi movement)
Ardabil now starts with the Alevi faith. Ardalan and Luristan will have easy option to covnert to Alevi, though AI won't do this.

I would also suggest adding a Turcoman culture in central anatolia (primary tag Karaman)

I will discuss my choices in upcoming spoilers.
Because I don't think alevis in anatolia and alawites in syria are controvertial (they're already represented as such/shia in game) I will only write about, the ahl-i-haqq and the case of the safavid order in Ardabil


Additional source on safavid-qizilbash: https://core.ac.uk/download/pdf/52925088.pdf Discusses more in detail the religious development of the safavid sheiks, the influence form folk islam and bektashism and the cultrual set up in anatolia in the 15th century
The Safavid order was an exaggerated shia sect. They venerated Ali and deified their own leader, Shah Ismail claimed divinity and to be the mahdi https://books.google.ro/books?id=ZUB-FEpPHsoC&pg=PA23&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q&f=false and their cult members became known as Qizilbash, they were closely connected with the sufi bektashi order (which became popular in the balkans and are still dominant form of islam in albania) and share an origin with them in the teachings of Haji Bektashi.
They were not twelver muslims. Shah Ismail converted to twelverism as a way of making his conquest of Iran easier. They started out as a sufi sect, probably sunnite (there's no evidence of shite beliefs in the early safavid order) and in the 15th century (probably) developed into a ghulat twelver sect. So while they did believe in the 12 imams and all that they would have exaggerated beliefs that did not fit normal shiism. Part of this is because a large part of the safavid-qizilbash-bektashi base was originally christian, especially a lot of the kurdish qizilbash were of armenian origin.
Now the time perspective is a little awekward, 1444 is not the best date to represent the safavids in, they didn't start becoming a real political and military power until sheik junanah (r. 1447-1460) and the major spread of qizilbash primarily happened under sheik haydar (r. 1460-1488 although probably the name qizilbash originaes with shah Ismail who was the safavid grandmaster1488-1501 when he captured tabriz.

Brief explanation of safavids from wiki https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Safavid_order otherwise the book I link about ghulat sects explains it in more detail.

So the point is that Ardabil, both tag and province should start as Alevii. In order to represent the shia shift that Ismail did, they should have a short mission tree (also kind of railroading them).
Mission 1: gather the qizilbash; have 100% forcelimit and 80% manpower:
Grants +3 professionalism and the modifier 'qizilbash followers' giving +10% moral and +20% manpower recovery speed for 20 years and a claim on tabriz

Mission 2: control tabriz, if mission is triggered they immediately annex tabriz with core,
and get an event with two options
1. (ruler) is the Madhi and we shall follow him to the end of time. Get modifier (ruler title and name) is the mahdi until ruler death giving +5% disciplin, +10% land morale +20% manpower modifier, -20% cost to enforce religion -3 tolerance of heretics, -20% improve relations +access to the deus vult casus beli
Once the ruler dies, a new modifier happens called "The Legacy of the Mahdi" giving +5% land morale and +10% manpower recovery speed for 20 years
Removes the qizilbash modifier
2. Proclaim Shah of Iran, moves capital to tabriz, converts the country to Shia islam of the jafari school, gives permanent claim on iran region and spawns a shiite center of reformation in Tabriz for 50 years. Get's the modifier "Shah of Iran" for 20 years giving +1 yearly legitimacy and -10% core creation cost
In order for the center of reformation to make sense, Iran should start majority sunni in 1444, as it historically was, Shah Ismail and the safavids force converted most of Iran and Shirvan to shiism.

Because the religious set up in the middle east is extremely anachronistic. At the time most of persia was sunni (some exception like qom) and the safavid spent 200 years making shia islam the majority religion in the country persecuting sunnis.
Likewise shirvan should start sunni, not shia. On the other hand shia islam should be more prominent in arabia, mecca, medina and al-haasa (which should be split in two tags) should all be shia

This then would make a lot of sense for ardabil to want to embrace shia islam to conquer persia

Alevi provinces in western Iran marked with green circle
Skärmbild (111) - kopia.png

A religion of many names, often known as yarsanism and very diverse with several subsects and generally quite obscure.
Figuring out their exact demograpics today, not possible, in 1444, not possible. Some sources are very careful talking about ahl-i-haqq, while other sources do so biggly, I seen sources claim that ardalan was officially ahl-i-haqq and that the lurs were all ahl-i-haqq. Maybe a bit of an overstatement but the sect seemed to have been dominant among the gurani kurds which made up the population of ardalan which prompts me to put ardalan province as Alevi, but keep the tag as sunni. However there should be a decision for players to make Alevi state religion, as it seems the ardalan emirs if not members of the sect tolerated the sect. Kirmanshah and Ilam also seems to have had possibly an ahl-i-haqq plurality/majority. Lak kurds in the area seems to have been adherents of ahl-i-haqq before converting to sunni, likewise portion of the lurs as well

Additional source on Ahl-I-Haqq presence among kurds in the area https://www.tirsik.net/danegeh/pirtuk/DavidMcDowall/A Modern History of the Kurds_DavidMcDowall.pdf
also note that ardalan controlled at least suleyman province (should be renamed as the city was foudned much later) and possibly kirkuk in 1444, at time both before and after 1444 ardalan would rule territories as far north as amadiya
It is also speculated that Ardalan might have professed Ahl-e-Haqq as state religion/religion of the ruling class at some point.

My decision to make khoramabad (and in theory this might extent to the rest of nothern luristan) Alevi and give luristan tag a similiar decision as Ardalan stems from well, it's clear that ahl-i-haqq were present among the lurs especially in the north, but religion in Luristan was heterodox with our without ahl-i-haqq. And we know very little about religion in the area from early modern era with most knowledge coming from 19th century sources
Because of the nomadic nature the lurs were not integrated in mainstream islam but lived without mosuqes and kept there religion closely tied to their folklore and superstition, local religious leaders etc to the point that in 19th century the persian government sent missionaries to "re-convert" lurs to proper shia twelver islam.
This looks more like syncretic and heterodox "Alevi" than shia islam.
Source https://www.iranicaonline.org/articles/luristan-05-religion-beliefs

So in short both ardalan and Luristan are sunni countries, but have Alevi provinces and both tags have decisions that let them convert state religion without having to start rebellions or so (though not used by AI)




To elaborate on my idea of allowing ardalan and luristan convert to Alevi I came up with the idea of allowing any tag with turkish, azerbaijani, kurdish or luri culture do the conversion (once again AI should not do this).
Maybe syrian culture should also be included here for alawites, but I'm not sure, it makes more sense with tribal kurds and lurs and turkmens jumping on the train but for an independent syria tag I don't know

It could be made as a decision or if possible in the convert religion tab.
The decision would require the owner to have at least one Alevi province, and a mysticism of 50 (tentative number) and stability of at least 1 and no more than 7 provicnes in total
Enacting will cost 1 stability but give a modifier giving +3% missionary strength against heretics and +20 religious unity for 20 years (representing that while these religions became closed at certain pointsi n their history they did have an initial proselytization phase.

The difference between Bektashism and Alevism is primarily a social distinction. Alevi-qizilbash were the rural/tribal followers of the ideology of Haj Bektashi, while Bektashis are the urban and institutionalized group. Bektashi islam became populaar in parts of the balkan and to this day is the dominant form of islam in albania, and was the religion of the janissaries, I consider it possible to add events for conversion ofbalkan provinces to Alevi, especially provinces a lot of janissaries are recuited from ,if this is possible to achieve

I am tempted to include possibilities for ottomans to convert to bektashism/alevi through janissary coups but I guess that should also force change the tag.

Alevi religion:
Alevism.png

Icon of Alevi religion

What are the common religious denominators to hold on to when making a religion for Alevi? Using islamic mysticism meter is entirely pointless as these groups are already hardcore mystics. There are a lot of interesting concepts to work with and I tried several different approaches, trying to rework existing religious mechanics to make it work for the Alevi (to keep it simple for paradox developers). I considered giving them harmony mechanic, a mechanic like protestant church power or orthodox patriarch authority, in the end I came down to something much more simple, cults/deity mechanic like the hindus.

Why this? Alevi groups have traditions of deifying various figures aside from allah/god and venerate a variety of beings, many which are historical figures in their religion.

So like Hinduism, The Alevi select a cult every time there is a new leader and follows it until they die and choose again. So let's look at the cults of the Alevi:

Numbers are suggestions
Alevi modifiers:
+3 tolerance of heathens (representing their syncretic beliefs)
-15% stability reduction cost
-1% missionary strenght (most groups are closed and don't accept converts)

they have halfed relationship penalties with shia muslims, as they're considered exaggerated shia muslims.

All Alevi provinces receive -2% local missionary strength.


Available cults, I needed to make these cults strong and make the religion on par with other Islamic religions, I don't want choosing to play Alevi to nerf the country except possibly in terms of diplomacy as well as making ardabil a strong country


I'm trying to keep the cults wide to fit the different groups that uses them.

Cult of [Ruler_name]: A cult that venerates it's leader as divine
The ruler of state get's +1 monarch point to their strongest attribute
+10% manpower recovery speed
+1 yearly legitimacy/corresponding


Cult of Angels: A cult that venerates angels/divine emanations (babs) that guide mankind
+10% manpower in true faith provinces
-10% development cost


Cult of Saints: A cult that venerates important saints like Haji Bektashi
+3% missionary strength against heretics (negating it's existing penalty and the natural penalty of muslim religons)
-10% idea cost


Cult of the Sun: A cult that venerates the sun and fire as representations of the holy
+10% goods produced
-10% aggressive expansion


Cult of the Imams: A cult that venerates Imam Ali and his successor imams
+10% morale
+20% defensiveness


Cult of Trinity: A cult that venerates a trinity of divine figures usually including Muhammed and Ali
+50% religious unity
+2 diplomatic reputation

I can't say all Alevi groups followed all these cults, but at least some of them! Which makes it IMO appropriate enough.

Except for the mechanic itself I haven't gotten around much to create more content for Alevi.
One idea for a kind of event I have is to play on the syncretic practices and beliefs of Alevi groups.
So when Alevi meets a Christian country, they can get an event about celebrating mass and communion which will increase relations with target country, if they meet hindu country, they will get an event about reincarnation being common denominator giving relationship bonus. Maybe in the future I'd be able to get back to this and focus on writing some events or flavor content but for now this is what I have on the Alevi


Let's move on to yazidism. I recently made a thread on the matter, I mostly reuse my content from that thread but updated it a bit.


Politically we see an improved situation for the yazidis with two independent tags Dasini based in Sinjar and Donboli based in Khoy. As well as an additional two provinces professing yazidi beliefs, Dohuk in northern iraq (also their religious center and a core of Dasini) and the province of Efrin over in Syria.
Besides a lot of articles (most of them sourced in my previous thread) I found this book and while not able to read all of it, I read the parts covering yazidi history in the relevant timeline.
It's with help from this book I made my calls for yazidi provinces and tags. Primary sources from around the time describes 6-7 main yazidi areas, Dasini/Sheikan in the north of mosul (this time around I let the area be ruled from dohuk/part of bitlis because their are so many emirs and tribal leaders in the area all can not be represented)
Sinjar as a yazidi stronghold is not clearly documented before 17th century but seems to have hold up to that before.
There are some pockets of Yazidis in southeastern turkey, Bohtan might have professed yazidi religion at some point before 1415, I saw a mod have yazidi in the province but I didn't see evidence for that later on. The remaining pockets in anatolia, primarily around batman and southeast of van are too small to represent
The Donboli principality https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principality_of_Donboli which now starts as an OPM vassal of QQ would be yazidi until later 16th century and are thus represented as such
Further west we see an isolated pockets of kurds in the kurd mountain centered on the cities of Efrin and Kilis, still to this day yazidis survive in the area. From sources we can't say if the majority of the population was yazidi or muslim, but even when ottomans conquered the area yazidi tribes were among the most powerful, making it possible.

For Dasini @fredrikslicer designed a set of national ideas (with some modifications by myself)

Trigger = Dasini
Traditions:

+15% Local defensiveness
+5% production efficiency

1. al-Yazīdiyya
A common misconception is that the Ezidi faith was created by the holy sheik. This is false
we were reformed by him and our rites purified by his wisdom. Yet we have existed since
the life of Adam.
+15% manpower recovery speed
+0.1 monthly purity

2. Zawiya
Sheik Adi not only formed the center at Lalish but also created an order of dervishes.
This order though dedicated to the Sunni Muslim faith remains a point of pride for the
community and brings us together with our neighbors.
+10% Institution Spread

3. Tough, rough men
The lands of northern mesopotamia are dry or mountainous, often both. It has given rise
to a breed of men that can survive even when deprived of nourishment and faced with the
danger of the elements.
-10% Land Attrition

4. Civata Ruhani
The descendant of Sheikh adi, sheikh Hassan, created numerous reforms to preserve our
community and carry on its practices. One of the most long lasting is the coucil known as
Civata Ruhani which still stands guard over our traditions and wellbeing.
-0.05 corruption

5. No mercy for blasphemers
To mention the name of the devil, or blaspheme on the name of Sheikh Adi or commit other sinful acts there shall be no mercy.
-33% harsh treatment cost

6. Yazidi marksmanship
Yazidis are renowned for their marksmanship, all Yazidi are armed with a rifle and capable of hitting a sparrow's eye at distance
+10% land fire damage

7. Line of Mir Mihammad Batini
Through a long series of trials and tribulations the Ezidi have been brought back together
under the Qatini faction. Their line will provide us with leadership well into the future.
Leader cost -33%


Ambitions +0.5 yearly army tradition


mostly copied from my previous suggestion https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...rities-in-the-cradle-of-civilization.1440923/

Introduction of Yazidi religion:


Yazidi belongs to the iranian religious group together with zoroastrianism. As yazidism is syncretic between old iranian religions and Abrahamitic religioins, due to being so different from islam and persecuted by muslims I find it to be the most suited placement,

Yazidism already exist in CKII converter so it actually already have modifiers and icon:


  • +1 Possible Advisors
  • -20% advisor cost with rulers culture
  • +3 Tolerance of the true faith
  • −1% Missionary strength
  • −1 Tolerance of heathens
  • −1 Tolerance of heretics
−1% Local missionary strength
As we can see Yazidis don't like non Yazidis getting negative tolerance and negative missionary strengths. The benefits of the religion though is very slim though, so I'm replacing the +1 possible advisor that is originally in converter games with something more more adapted to the Yazidi playstyle, tall and isolated! reduced cost for advisors with rulers culture (reduced cost for rulers religion would be better but I don't think that's an existing mechanic yet)
Edit: I found it unnecessary that yazidis would be less tolerant than other groups, thus penalizing them so heavily

The idea is that Yazidi religion should compensate for their poor expansionist playstyle with strong bonuses

Inspired by Zoroastrianism getting it's own mechanics finally! by reworking coptic holy sites I got inspired to do a similar thing for Yezidism, namely take the reformed fervor mechanic and rename it purity!

So reformed fervor is filled up as follows:

+1as Reformed country (base) yazidi country
+1for being at peace
+1for each step of positive stability
+1for having luck (AI only)
up to +1from religious unity
−1+1from prestige
−1+1from Clergy depending on influence and loyalty
−2for being bankrupt

Yazidi purity fills up the same way with the addition that converting costs 5 purity
Additionally religious idea 4 gives +0.25 monthly purity
You can also gain purity from the pilgrimage event I talked about before and there could be more events that give or cost purity.


just like the reformed faith you can choose three "venerations" namely the three holy figures of yazidism:

Telek Maus: +1 legitimacy (or corresponding RT, De etc) and +1 yearly prestige
Sheik 'Adi: -20% stability cost and +10% goods produced modifer
Sultan Ezid: +20 foreign spy detection and +10% land morale

choosing venerations work the same way of choosing a focus with the reformed faith

Each active focus veneration cost 5 fervor purity points a month. It is possible to activate any combination. If the stored fervor purity points are depleted then the foci veneration will become inactive until there are enough positive points again. The foci venerations will deactivate in the opposite order they were implemented.

So this way yazidism is a self-serving religion, as bonuses circle around, activating sheik adi will make it cheaper to increase stability which gives purity, activating telek maus will give prestige which increase purity, don't conquer too many provinces, keep religious unity high and don't convert too many provinces, restore the sheik adi tomb and establish a liturgical canon (below) and you will easily sit on all 3 venerations at the same time

Yazidis also have decisions and missions unique to them (see spiler below)

They have two decisions:
"Establish liturgical canon"
The decision requires you to have +2 stability, loyal clergy, 100% religious unity as well as having a theologian advisor active and costs 200 diplomatic points. It grants a country specific permanent modifier which gives +0.25 monthly purity and +5% clergy loyalty equilibrium.

"Restore the Tomb of Sheikh Adi"
Own Dohuk and have it be yazidi religion, it costs 50 administrative points and will give Dohuk province a permanent modifier called "The Tomb of Sheikh Adi which gives +1 tolerance of true faith, +0.5 yearly prestige and +0.25 monthly purity it will also enable a semi-regular event to go on pilgrimage to lalish for ALL yazidi countries, which would enable a few pulse events similiar to the muslim event about the hajj (could maybe be turned into a mission)

Two unique missions also exists for Yazidis
Unite the Yazidi emirs:
Own at least five provinces with kurdish culture
Giving all kurdish provinces that doesn't have yazidi religion a province modifier for 20 years: "Yazidi emirs uniting under [ROOT] banner" +4 missionary strenght (to negate the negative modifier inherent in yazidism, in islam and + 1 to make it easier) and +20 manpower modifier

For this mission I decided not to make a scope around historical yazidi areas as it got too picky, they were spread out all over kurdish areas so I just made it generic like this

Cult of Angels:
Own, Dohuk, Sinjar, Tunceli and Ardalan as core provinces
All kurdish provinces get's +4% missionary strenght for 20 years
Gain permanent country modifier "Cult of Angels" Giving +10 manpower in true faith provinces and +5 maximum absolutism
Plays on the idea of the cult of angels pre-islamic fate mentioned before, Ardalan representing the Ahl-i-haqq and tunceli the alevi kurds

There are no yazidi missions giving claims on provinces, the idea is that there should be a kurdish mission tree giving that, and then based on religion the kurds should have extra missions for that (hisn kayfa having their own unique)

I think this was all, tagging @Groogy for good measures again, sorry for the spam. I might update this thread with some more flavor content, there are some more ideas I haven't fleshed out yet, but nothing major and would come as events or maybe decisions

One of the main reason middle east needs a revisit is the lack of mission trees for countries other than ottomans. Mamluks, persia, arab tribes/formable all need their own mission trees and in general there are other flavor content that needs to be done. Anyway to the main point:
I have sketched out some mission here, for ardabil and dasini so far. My idea is that there would be a persian mission tree coverign 3-4 rows, that all tags with iranian culture share, and then 1-2 rows of unique missions for tags or cultures (such as azeri, kurdish, persian, afghan/pashtun, Mazandari as well as having religious specific missions. Taking into consideration also timurid mission trees it can be a bit of a mess to design all this, but it's something that really should be done.
I also think that the Kurdish and Azerbaijani mission trees respectively would give them the option to change name (not tag) to Kurdistan and Azerbaijan respectively, both names are used in historic records for the respective people and regions

So for example Dasini would have mission tree combining three different elements, kurdish missions, yazidi missions and iranian missions. I would also suggest that Yazidi tags have the option to choose Yazidiya as dynamic name for their state isntead of kurdistan

Sunni tags get the sword of islam and custodian of the holy cities missions,
shia tags get the Najaf and karbala mission (and one more or so presumably)
Yazidi get's the unite yazidi emirs and cult of angels mission


I might get my hand to designing some of these trees myself, but that would be a suggestion of it's own. Anyway I have been carried away by my studies of the region which also led to my recent thread on badakhshan-afghanistan area.

Added august 2021
Alevi:
Since my Alevi group really encompasses 3 different religion, which are internally diverse and prone to changes there are many options for how to do this.

For a simple center of religion modifier (-5 missionary strength) Tunceli province with it's Munzur valley is a good fit. http://www.munzurvalley.com/ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Munzur_Valley_National_Park

Kermanshah province with it's holy sites for Yarsani/Ahl-I-Haqq https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yarsanism#Holy_sites is a second option,

Furthermore there could be a province triggered modifier for owning both of these places, something along the lines of "Uniting the Alevi communities" which would grant which would grant +1 tolerance of true fate and +0.5 yearly prestige


Yazidi:

For yazidi I already did some suggestion for Lalish but taking itno consideration the new monument mechanic I'm expanding on that suggestion:

Dohuk province starts with a Religious center, giving -5% missionary strength. Furthermore it now has a monument which starts at insignificant level, can only be used by Yazidi religion and have the following levels modifiers:

Noteworthy level:
Provincial modifier:
+5% manpower

Global modifier:
0.25 yearly prestige
0.25 monthly purity
+1 tolerance of true fate

Starts the lalish pilgrimage events that create a semi-regular pulse event for ALL yazidi countries

Significant level:
Provincial modifier:
+5% manpower
+10% defensiveness

Area modifier:
+1% missionary strength

Global modifier
0.5 yearly prestige
0.5 monthly purity
+1 tolerance of true fate

Magnificent level
Provincial modifier:
+10% manpower
+15% local defensiveness


Area modifier:
+2% missionary strength

Global modifier:
+1 yearly prestige
+1 monthly purity
+2 tolerance of true fate

I love achievements so let's brainstorm some new.

All Saints Eve: As an Alevi country ally a Christian nation and go to war together

The Angels of Mons: As a yazidi country win a battle in the province of Hainaut
 

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AirikrStrife

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I have been working on adding a lot of detail to this thread, as well as added link to a full pdf of the book "Extremist shiite sects" which been one of my main sources.

My update now includes a lot of tweaks across the bords, some more detail as well as two missions for ardabil fleshed out.

There could still be a lot of stuff done, like designing the pilgrimage event for yazidis, writing some flavor texts and doing some extra flavor events, but I think all relevant political context is more or less finished, as long as not better sources are provided with more detail.

I would not mind writing out more flavor content but atm not planning on doing it as it would be a lot of work (it's already been a lot of work, but I enjoyed it and learning about the region)

EDIT september 2021-ongoing: while the ban on new provinces will make it unlikely that any of my ideas here be considered to be implemented, I'm still so interested in these topics that I'll drop some tidbits here more for myself than for a game related purpose,
This old book discusses heterodox tribes in asia minor i nthe 19th century https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9c/Heterodox_Tribes_of_Asia_Minor_by_Frederick_William_Hasluck_(1922).pdf
Gives some population estimates, this together with soem other sources and improved understanding and interpretation of the alevi-qizilbash religion makes me believe it's likely that Alevi would be larger than in my OP and cover the entire Rum area aswell.

Phd thesis on the history of the last safavid sheiks https://core.ac.uk/download/pdf/52925088.pdf and the development of their ghulat beliefs

Book on Nurbakshia islam. Suggests Lurs were Ahl-I Haqq

List of tribes that are claimed to be/have been Ah-I Haqq
Possibly Ardalan
Gurani
Hawraman
Possibly kurds of Kermanshah
Kalhur
Sanjabi
Kerindi
Zangana
Jalalvand
possiby fayli kurds
Possibly Bajalan
Possibly majority of Lak, at least some

Lurs?
Zand tribe joining Qizilbash
 
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Holy sites and monuments

AirikrStrife

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Adding possible holy sites and monuments for the two religions.

Since my Alevi group really encompasses 3 different religion, which are internally diverse and prone to changes there are many options for how to do this.

For a simple center of religion modifier (-5 missionary strength) Tunceli province with it's Munzur valley is a good fit. http://www.munzurvalley.com/ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Munzur_Valley_National_Park

Kermanshah province with it's holy sites for Yarsani/Ahl-I-Haqq https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yarsanism#Holy_sites is a second option,

Furthermore there could be a province triggered modifier for owning both of these places, something along the lines of "Uniting the Alevi communities" which would grant which would grant +1 tolerance of true fate and +0.5 yearly prestige

For yazidi I already did some suggestion for Lalish but taking itno consideration the new monument mechanic I'm expanding on that suggestion:

Dohuk province starts with a Religious center, giving -5% missionary strength. Furthermore it now has a monument which starts at insignificant level, can only be used by Yazidi religion and have the following levels modifiers:

Noteworthy level:

Global modifier:
0.1 yearly prestige
0.1 monthly purity
+1 tolerance of true fate

Starts the lalish pilgrimage events that create a semi-regular pulse event for ALL yazidi countries

Significant level:
Provincial modifier:
+10% defensiveness

Area modifier:
+1% missionary strength

Global modifier
0.25 yearly prestige
0.25 monthly purity
+1 tolerance of true fate

Magnificent level
Provincial modifier:
+15% local defensiveness


Area modifier:
+2% missionary strength

Global modifier:
0.5 yearly prestige
0.5 monthly purity
+1 tolerance of true fate
 
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Donlad

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you're suggestions are always great. would love to see this in game. only way to make it even better would be adding Nestorianism and the Druze
 
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gronak

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I'd like for there to be more wasteland, it makes gameplay a lot more fun and strategic. Is there a way to incorporate the wasteland you removed while keeping the new provinces?
 
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AirikrStrife

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I'd like for there to be more wasteland, it makes gameplay a lot more fun and strategic. Is there a way to incorporate the wasteland you removed while keeping the new provinces?
I was skimmin a bit in my sources, and while historical sources don't think in EUIV terms it's difficult to be certain (also EUIV are very inconsistent with wastelands). It is possible to make some small wasteland to remvoe access between van and khoy, but otherwise all provinces should touch each other, so not sure it's worth the effort
 
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Also alternitavley one could use church power for alevis and have a hidden effect of pulling them closer to jews, muslims, christians or jews depending on what you do?

Also feel the ahl-i-haqq should have a unique malus for missionary strength either applying to outside the main area or outside their primary culture since they did convert people (either traditionally or by people jumping on a bandwaggon) initially at least stopping when they were forced to become more isolationist
 

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Time has come to talk more about KURDS!

Kurd majority region according to Martin van Bruinessen
qAXzOMf.png


Some names
w7ldaPz.png


Qaraqoyunlu rule, Persia rule and between two borders Kurd region
J438N0e.png


Location of some emirates (over time)
mSA6ptO.png


First, Kurdish was one of the most underrepresented nations in the game, somewhat fixed with latest patches. I have tried to find source about them and there are 3 somewhat legit sources I am gonna use.
1. Şerefname by Şeref Han (1597)
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/22886794-erefname?ac=1&from_search=true
He was Kurd ruler of Bitlis, he wrote a book about all Kurdish families, mostly following their independence level.
2. Agha, Shaikh, And State: The Social And Political Structures Of Kurdistan by Martin van Bruinessen
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/2007272.Agha_Shaikh_And_State
3. Selçuklular devrinde doğu anadolu'da türk beylikleri by Faruk Sümer
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/34378656-sel-uklular-devrinde-do-u-anadolu-da-t-rk-beylikleri

Şerefname mentions Kurds by 3 section:
1st section is about independent ones. (Noone survived until EU4 timeline)
2nd section is about autonomous (vassal) ones.
3rd section is about just dependent emirs.
4th section is about Bitlis emirs.

I will mostly try to mention 2nd group:
1. Ardalan (its already in game)
2. Hakkari
3. Bahadinan/Bahdinan/İmadiye
4. Bohto/Cizre (Aziziye, Gurgıl, Fınık)
5. Hisnkayfa (its already in game)

Some quotes from the books:
"Around 1450 most Kurdish emirates (principalities) were under Qaraqoyunlu sovereignty, although towards the west (Bitlis, Siirt, Hasankeyf) the Kurdish mirs' vassalage to the Qaraqoyunlu rulers was nominal at best.^"
"In 1467 the army was defeated, and Jihanshah was killed in fight. In the following years the Aqqoyunlu subjected most of Kurdistan. The Jazira district was taken in 1470; the fortresses of Bitlis and Cholemerik (capital of the Hakkari Kurds) followed in the same or the next year."

Hakkari:
"The history of this emirate is interesting because its territory remained much longer under Safavid influence; it was always to remain a frontier province desired by both empires. Although natural conditions gave it effective protection against foreign invasions, the mirs often needed much political skill to retain their independence. Among the population of the emirate was a large number of Assyrians (Aramaic-speaking Christians, following the Nestorian rite). Half of these were peasants subjected to the Kurdish tribes, as Christians elsewhere; the other half, however, were tribally organized and were redoubtable fighters.'*" We shall see that they also played quite an active role in the emirate's politics. The ruling family claimed descent from the Abbasid caliphs; at one time or another they had their own money minted and their names read in the khutba. In earlier times Kurds were mentioned in a more southerly direction,''^ but at the period under consideration they resided at Van and Cholemerik (the latter town is now called Hakkari). The mirs ruled over a territory consisting of the present Turkish provinces of Hakkari and Van, and stretching south into northern Iraq.
At the arrival of Tamburlaine (1387) Mir Izzeddin Sher mled over these dominions and firmly resisted Tamburlaine's incursions. But seeing how he harassed the non-military population, Izzeddin Sher at last surrendered. A relative, Nasruddin, barricaded himself in the nearly impregnable fortress of Van and continued a desperate fight against Tamburlaine's troops; only with great difficulty could this resistance be broken, which is probably why Tamburlaine contented himself with making Hakkari a nominal vassal state. He gave Izzeddin Sher who after all had recognized his sovereignty his patrimonial dominions as a fief, and left administration and govemment fully in his hands, ensuring the family's loyalty to his successors as well. When Tamburlaine's son Shahrukh led a campaign against the rebellious Qara Yusuf (the founder of the Qaraqoyunlu dynasty see above), Izzeddin's son Mellik Muhammad went (together with the mir of Bitlis, Shamsuddin) to the former's camp to pay his respects and to receive a renewal of his investiture.
The Sharafname remains silent on the period of Qaraqoyunlu domination. It is highly probable that the family submitted itself to these new rulers, in spite of their profession of loyalty to the Timurids. The author, a great friend of the Hakkari family, may have preferred to leave this unmentioned.
The Aqqoyunlu ruler Uzun Hasan sent his Turkish generals against Cholemerik, the capital. They managed to take it, due to the extreme negligence of its ruler, another Izzeddin Sher, who put up no defence in spite of entreaties by all his counsellors. The mir was killed (and with him, probably, many others who might have led future resistance against occupation), and the district was placed under the control of the Kurdish Dumbili tribe, a fierce lot, probably originating from Cizre.
The Dumbili used the good relations of their chieftain Shaikh Ahmad with Uzun Hasan to effect some conquests of their own, in the name of the Aqqoyunlu. The eastern subdistricts of Hakkari were placed under control of the Mahmudi. These were a confederation of Kurdish tribes of diverse origins, formed around a certain Shaikh Mahmud (from whom their name derived), who had entered the service of the Qaraqoyunlu. Qara Yusuf had granted him the districts Ashut and Khoshab, which had at times belonged to Hakkari.

There are even more information about Hakkari in Şerefname but I don't post cause my source is Turkish.

Martin van Bruinessen mentions this emirate more:
Çemişgezek:
Nowadays, Chemishkezek is an underpopulated district of Dersim, (Tunceli, in Turkey), one of the least accessible and least explored parts of Kurdistan. The Sharafname describes its ruling family (which is probably of Seljuk descent)''^ as one of the most illustrious of Kurdistan, and its dominions are said to have been so extensive that they were often simply referred to as 'Kurdistan'. Many large and small tribes obeyed this family; they were the master of thirty-two fortifications. All these belongings remained in the family's hands during the turbulent periods when Jenghis Khan, Tamburlaine and Qara Yusuf the Qaraqoyunlu conquered these parts of the world. However, the family's rule ended abruptly with the emergence of Uzun Hasan.
The Aqqoyunlu ruler strove to eliminate all native Kurdish dynasties, especially those that were attached to the Qaraqoyunlu, if we can believe the Sharafname. He sent the Kharbandlu, one of the Aqqoyunlu tribes, to the emirate of Chemishkezek in order to subdue it. They did, in fact, conquer it, but the young mir Shaikh Hasan energeticallyorganized an army from among his subjects and managed to expel the occupying Turks. He and his descendants then held these possessions until the time of Shah Ismail. The family's attitude towards this monarch was very friendly, probably because they had Qizilbash, or at least Shiite, leanings.''^ When Ismail sent Nur Ali Khalife Rumlu, the military commander and governor of Erzincan, against Chemishkezek, the mir, Haji Rustem Beg, gave up all his belongings without any resistance."


So my suggestion add 2 more Kurdish emirates as vassals, 1. Hakkari and 2. Bahdinan:

from wiki:
Bahdinan or Badinan (1376–1843) was one of the most powerful and enduring Muslim Kurdish principalities. It was founded by Baha-al-Din originally from Şemzînan area in Hakkari in sometime between 13th or 14th century CE. The capital of this emirate was Amadiya for a long time. The rulers of the Bahdinan emirate claim descent from the Abbasid Caliphate, an early dynasty in Islamic history.
It was centered in the town of Amadiya (or Amêdî) in the present-day Dahuk province in Iraqi Kurdistan. The principality also included Akra to the east and Zakho to the west. The principality reached its peak during the reign of Bahram Pasha the Great (re. 1726–1767).
Threatened by the expansionist and centralizing efforts of the Ottoman and Safavid empires, Bahdinan princes were drawn into prolonged confrontations with these two rival powers.

Turkish source Şehname for Bahdinan:


About others:

Cizre was ruled by 3 different branches and they nearly all were conquered, they all had harsh times according to Şerefname (I can cite these but its in Turkish), It says they somewhat could stay on their feet for short time under Emir Şeref ibn Emir Bedir. He revolted against Aq Qoyunlu, got independence, and even stood against Persia: (Then they accepted Ottoman authority after him)

Turkish source Şehname for independent Cizre (called Cezire):



So I want to suggest Cizre as revolter state around here. (Not sure if it can be also added as vassal)

I added Çemişgezek because mention was rather detailed, but I don't think its that important as Aq and Qara qoyunlu had high authority over there.

This is representational map about ruling families in region for the time (Just as reference to redraw map, there were overlords not mentioned here)
(It calls Ardalan as independent, Bohti/Cezire as half independent, Ziriqi as vassal so not very very accurate)
hUSnnf8.png
These were information I found about Kurds from various sources,
My suggestion was to add 2 more Kurdish emirates as vassals, 1. Hakkari and 2. Bahdinan
And Cizre as revolter tag cause well they briefly revolted.

I also think Alevis should be in game but I really can't imagine how, there aren't much sources.

By the way I think Bektashi should be added as religious order to Turks here I explained
After seeing Iberian sufi orders added into game, I just considered we may add Anatolia sufi orders here in this thread with quotes from various sources:

Several mystic sects were prominent in the Ottoman Empire, including the Bektaşi, Halveti, Mevlevi, Rifai, Qadiri, Naqshbandi and Bayrami. Of all of these, the Ottoman rulers were probably closest to the Mevlevis, undoubtedly from the time of Osman. It was the Mevlevi Sheik Edebali who girded him with a sword that became known as the Sword of Osman and every sultan after that had to be girded with it on his accession to the throne. The Mevlevi sheik who was leading the tariqa at the time would be summoned to Istanbul from Konya especially for that purpose.

1. Mevleviye (Mawlawiyah)
https://www.britannica.com/topic/Mawlawiyah

Mevleviye, founded by Jalal al-Din Rumi (d.1273). This was an élite tarikat, which numbered ulema, senior bureaucrats and even sultans among its members: the early Ottoman rulers and princes wore the woollen Mevlevi (‘Hurasani’) cap,while the reforming Selim III (1789-1808) was an enthusiastic member and patron of the order. A small number of disciples were authorised to perform the devrân, the famous slow turning rite on account of which European travellers styled them the ‘Whirling Dervishes.’ Intellectually and aesthetically inspired by the poetry of Rumi, the Mevlevis produced some of Turkey’s finest musicians and calligraphers, and also the Turkish language’s most sophisticated religious poet, Gâlib Dede of Galata (d.1799), whose brilliant extended poem Beauty and Love (Hüsn ü Ask) belies the stereotype of Muslim ‘cultural decline’ during that period. Another feature of the later Mevlevis, as with many Halvetis, Bayramis, and some others, was a strong devotion to the family of the Prophet, an attitude which some of them pushed beyond the point usually reached in Sunni piety, so that pilgrimages to Karbala, commemorations of the death of Imam Hüseyin and other devotional emphases more usually associated with Shi’ism became widespread. However, this ‘devotional Shi’ism’, a characteristic of Turkish piety even outside the tarikats, almost never stepped over the dividing-line into ‘sectarian Shi’ism’. As the Mevlevi poet Esrar Dede (d.1797) expressed it:
I am the slave of the lovers of the Prophet,
Neither a Kharijite nor a misled Shi’ite am I;
I am the bondsman of Abu Bakr, ‘Umar and ‘Uthman,
And I travel upon the path of ‘Ali, God’s saint.

Mevlana Jalaladdin Rumi, taught “unlimited tolerance, positive reasoning, goodness, charity and awareness through love.”


2. Bektashi
Its founder, Haci Bektas, was an immigrant who came to Anatolia from Khurasan at some point in the late thirteenth century. A work reliably attributed to him, the Makalat, shows him to have been a learned Sufi who recognised the necessity of adherence to the sari‘at. He describes the forty ‘stations’ of the Sufi path, ten under each of the classic heads of Sari‘at (the Law), Tarikat (the Way), Hakikat (the Truth), and Ma’rifat (Knowledge). The stations of Tarikat, for instance, are: repentance (tevbe), aspiration (iradet), dervishhood (dervislik), mortification (mücahede), service to the brethren (hidmet), fear of God (hawf), hope in Him (ümid), the special dress code and regalia of the Bektashi way, love for the absent Beloved (muhabbet) and passion upon experiencing Him (ask).[x]

Despite the seemingly mainstream origins of the Bektashis, the process which had subverted the Safavis was soon at work, and subsequent generations of rural Turks introduced the ghulat beliefs which are said to characterise the tarikat to this day. But despite the hostility of the ilmiyye institution, the staunch loyalism of the Bektashis offered the sultans a means of harnessing the Alid piety of the Turcomans in the service of the state. The Janissaries, the slave-infantry which made up the core of the Ottoman army until the early nineteenth century, were usually affiliated to this tarikat.

the Bektaşis were the official sect of the Ottoman army’s famed Janissary corps. They also were popular in the southern Balkans where there are still followers.


3. Naqshbandi
The Naqshbandi order is the only Sufi sect that can trace its origins back to the first century of the Prophet Muhammad, making it the oldest tariqa. Today it still has followers in the millions around the world. As a sect it and the Halvetis were particularly popular among theologians and government officials.

The second type of Ottoman Sufism is represented by a range of more solidly orthodox tarikats. Among the most conspicuous of these was the Naksibendiye, founded by Baha’ al-Din Naqshband of Bukhara. Within a century of its founder’s death in 1389, the first Naksibendi tekke (dervish lodge) had been established in Istanbul by Molla Abdullah Ilahi, an itinerant scholar from the Anatolian town of Simav who had received the Naksibendi initiation from Khwaja ‘Ubaydullah Ahrar in Samarqand. After his return to Turkey, Molla Ilahi launched a large-scale mission among the Turks, calling them to orthodox Islam. His literary legacy in three languages includes works such as the Way of the Seekers (Maslak al-TalibIn), and his famous Travelling-fare of the Lovers (Zad al-Mushtaqin). A ‘second founder’ of the Naksibendi order in Turkey was Mawlana Khalid Baghdadi (d.1827), a Kurd who brought the Naksibendi-Mujaddidi order from Delhi and worked to ensure its diffusion throughout the empire.

Partly because their staunch orthodoxy recommended them to the ulema, the Naksibendiye were among the most widespread and politically and socially influential Ottoman tarikats. Their impact today on many Turkish religious politicians is said to be considerable.


These 3 were probably biggest sufi orders.

Summary:
The Anatolian Sufism

In general, Sufism, and especially the Anatolian Sufism, is so contemporary that even hundreds of years ago it implied that enlightenment was not possible through static instruments such as organized religions, fanaticism, dogma and unconscious beliefs. Trying to understand infinity with finite means is impossible. So, we have two options: We shall be mystics by going after our essence given to us from infinity (from the “infinite energy ocean” as it is called today) or we shall be atheists by accepting our doom as a nihilist. The ancillary roads between these two are synthetic and compulsive adaptations which try to reconcile existence and non-existence, infinite and finite. Mental laziness and an ignorant acceptance remain for many people who accept such synthetic and simple ways without thinking. Without being conscious enough, going from the material to the spiritual or the reverse is not an intelligent solution. As Mevlana pointed out, “A bird with one wing will not be able to fly.”

Anatolian Sufism succeeded in a very important way never achieved in any other place: It maintained a broad tolerance, did not care about tiny differences between beliefs, displayed no conflict with established belief systems, and sometimes even receive benefits from these and gave good news that the individual will be enlightened through time.



ALSO
I have talked about Ahis in this thread couple of times.

Here is more information about Ahi republic:


there was the self-financing but officially sanctioned network of guilds (esnaf). These, which evolved more complex forms in Ottoman society than elsewhere in the Islamic world, grew from informal fraternities of young men, often bachelors known as ahis, who subscribed to the canons known collectively as fütüvvet, a principle which may lie at the source of the chivalric ideal in the West. Mutually supportive, morally upright, and devoted to the ideal model of fütüvvet that was the caliph Ali (r.a.), these groups had by the fifteenth century evolved into formal guilds which probably included almost all urban craftsmen. The governing documents of these guilds, known as fütüvvet-nâmes, detailed not only the religious and moral duties of the guild members, but also the degrees of rank which stretched from the humble grade of apprentice up to the headship of the guild. Often each apprentice (nâzil) would be allocated a ‘senior on the path’ (yol atasi) and, from among more senior apprentices, two ‘brothers’ (yol kardesleri) to assist and counsel him. The organisation of some vocations was much more hierarchically rigid than others, and the leatherworkers, in particular, came to recognise one universal ‘guide’, the Ahi Baba, whose grand lodge was at the Anatolian town of Kirsehir, and whose authority was often acknowledged by other guilds as well.

More info in Turkish:

>Foreign language link removed by moderator<


It was dervish-guild republic similar to Middle Age Italian republics according to Yılmaz Öztuna.
 

fredrikslicer

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Here is my take on the Alevi

Alevi bonuses
+2 Tolerance Heretics
-10% Stability cost
-1 Missionary strength
-1 Missionary strength against other cultures

Church power and church aspects

Alevi aspects:

Permit wine drinking + 1 Christian
+10% Goods produced

Admiration of St Francis +1 Christian
+1 Advisor pool

Itthiad +1 Christian
+1 Tolerance heathens

Bektashi officals + 1 Muslim
+1 Diplomatic reputation

Friends of Ali + 1 Muslim
+1 Tolerance heretics

Qzilibash brotherhood + 1 Muslim
+5% Army morale

Kaysinite ancestry: +1 Own
+1 Legitimacy, etc.

Formalize the 12 services: + 1 Own
+1 Tolerance own

Kitab-Al-Haqq: +1 Own
-10% Idea cost

Once you achieve 3 aspects you gain a unique modifier depending on the combination of points

2-3 points own: The fourth path
+1 Prestige
+2 Missionary strength against own culture
+1 Ruler administration skill

2-3 points christian: Dede patriarchy
Misguided heretic: Christians
+2 Missionary strength
+2 Tolerance heathens

2-3 points muslim: Qzilibash Tariqa
Misguided heretic: Muslims
Gain Shia religous schools

1 point each: Waḥdat al-wujūd
+20% Religous Unity
+2 Tolerance Heathens
+0.5 Diplomatic reputation

Its a bit weighted in favor of the latter two for historical reasons

Flavor event exemaples:

Insan-I-Kamil
+1 Tolerance own, +1 Diplomatic reputation, +1 Prestige, +1 Legitimacy, etc.

Vigilant doorkeepers
-2 Local missionary strength

Mourning of Muharram
-10 Unrest

@withche.07 Your thoughts? Since you are the expert on everything turkish here on the forum.
 
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AirikrStrife

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Also alternitavley one could use church power for alevis and have a hidden effect of pulling them closer to jews, muslims, christians or jews depending on what you do?

Also feel the ahl-i-haqq should have a unique malus for missionary strength either applying to outside the main area or outside their primary culture since they did convert people (either traditionally or by people jumping on a bandwaggon) initially at least stopping when they were forced to become more isolationist

Replying to both your posts:

It's a plausible idea, there are a few reasons why I would prefer my version with the deity mechanic.

First of, maybe it is an issue that I call it Alevi, rather than something more general as the religion I designed is based not only on Alevis,, but also alawites/nusayris, the safavid/qizilbash and Ahl-E-Haqq/yarsani.

The church aspect mechanic focuses a lot on the rituals of the fate and also on the syncretisism. The deity mechanic I came up with explores the beliefs of the fate,

For example Cult of trinity showcases the Alawite trinity of Ali, Muhammed and Salman Al-Farsi, and the Alevi trinity of Allah, Muhammed and Ali.

The cult of leader shows that leaders (thinking Ismail and some of the Ahl-E-Haqq leaders) are seen as divine figures.

The Cult of Saints (which can also include past leaders like Hajj Bektashi and Soltan Sohuk) shows the importance of certain figures in the development of ritual and beliefs.
Cult of saints is also designed to be used for conversation of muslims, as it gives +3 missionary strenght against heretic, representing the times then this religions were proselytising and putting the mechanic on the saints as they're often shared by, or possible to hsare with other muslims.

ETC

I would definitly like to have more events tied to Alevism, especially with relationship to christianity, I thought about adding an Alawi tag (haven't found a name for any Alwi principality yet, though there are mentions of Alawite strongholds) with national ideas and some flavor events.
 

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First of, maybe it is an issue that I call it Alevi, rather than something more general as the religion I designed is based not only on Alevis,, but also alawites/nusayris, the safavid/qizilbash and Ahl-E-Haqq/yarsani.

I think that in that case you might want to call it ghulat since that is a pretty common view of some of the excentric shia cults


You can see that the Alewites at least go under that description also if they are called "Alevi" and it includes these four then its going to be confusing.

The yarsanis does kind of exit the norm for the other 3 and I would honestly put them under the yazidis since they seem driven by similar things and essentially being pagan-muslim syncretic religions

The church aspect mechanic focuses a lot on the rituals of the fate and also on the syncretisism. The deity mechanic I came up with explores the beliefs of the fate,

I included a fair mix of ritual and theology but I can see what your going for

I would definitly like to have more events tied to Alevism, especially with relationship to christianity, I thought about adding an Alawi tag (haven't found a name for any Alwi principality yet, though there are mentions of Alawite strongholds) with national ideas and some flavor events.
if they go under the same tag then I events could be designed with a primary culture and religion in the trigger thereby distinguishing them
 

AirikrStrife

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I think that in that case you might want to call it ghulat since that is a pretty common view of some of the excentric shia cults
It's one of the possible names I discuss in OP. Reason I don't like Ghulat is that it's a word used by other muslims to describe groups that exaggerate. Bateni (or version of that word) is another alternative, but as that could also possibly include ismaili and druze I wasn't sure about that either.

There is a precedence of using Aleviler as a word for a bunch of this groups, again mostly an exonym, but I found it more representative of the groups as it focuses on their worship of Ali rather than calling them exaggerators.


The yarsanis does kind of exit the norm for the other 3 and I would honestly put them under the yazidis since they seem driven by similar things and essentially being pagan-muslim syncretic religions

I used the book extremist shites and some other sources to establish the boundaries for this proposed new religion.
http://hindiurduflagship.org/wp/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/Extremist-Shiites.pdf
It's a very good read :) and does place ahl-e-haqq as an exaggerated shia sect, though this is ofc a bit controversial. However sicne I designed yazidism very specifically around the yazidi religion (refering to yazidi figures in the mechanic) and alevi to be general around all these groups the book talk about and IMO the respective mechanics working for the the groups as I distinguish them.

I included a fair mix of ritual and theology but I can see what your going for

Yes it's a working proposal, both mechanics would work.
I was also thinkign we could work in some more events for 'Alevism' and also thinking about adding more cults, Hindu's getting buddha as a cult through special missions have made me consider adding some cults as well
I'm gonna go over parts of exremist shiites again, as they have some possible cults to work in,



In regard to @withche.07 s post on kurdish history I will reply in detail later, can't get into all the sources and stuff at once now.
 

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Yes it's a working proposal, both mechanics would work.
I was also thinkign we could work in some more events for 'Alevism' and also thinking about adding more cults, Hindu's getting buddha as a cult through special missions have made me consider adding some cults as well
I'm gonna go over parts of exremist shiites again, as they have some possible cults to work in,

Come to think of it you can restrict cults based upon prequisites so you could make unique once for each of them while also having some general in the mix
 
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Yeah, have like cult of imams, cult of saints and cult of trinity (I think these are the ones covering all groups, but it's been a while since I was reading the details about this) as default.
Then Cult of sun is unlocked if you own a province in Iran region (emphasizing it as a iranian element related to zoroastrianism, thus only Ahl-I-Haqq having it as default) Cult of the leader could be unlocked by a mission that is triggered by humiliating a rival (or without mission as well).
Don't remember enough of cult of angels, if it's also applicable alawites or if there should be some prerequisite.

I'm gonna look into some more cults as well
 

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Yeah, have like cult of imams, cult of saints and cult of trinity (I think these are the ones covering all groups, but it's been a while since I was reading the details about this) as default.
Then Cult of sun is unlocked if you own a province in Iran region (emphasizing it as a iranian element related to zoroastrianism, thus only Ahl-I-Haqq having it as default) Cult of the leader could be unlocked by a mission that is triggered by humiliating a rival (or without mission as well).
Don't remember enough of cult of angels, if it's also applicable alawites or if there should be some prerequisite.

I'm gonna look into some more cults as well

Suggestion for cults:

- Whadat al-wujud
-0.1 Piety
-15% Advisor cost

The concept that all things are part of god as I understand it. Seems limited to the Anatolian alevis

Preq: Turkish

- Kisilibaslik
+2 Tolerance towards the true faith
+5% Discipline

Shared doctrine with Bektashis and Qizilibash and is explained in a poem:

The doctrine of Qizilbashism is well explained in the following poem written by the Shaykh of Safaviyya tariqah Ismail I:

من داها نسنه بيلمه زه م / Mən daha nəsnə bilməzəm, // I don't know any other object,
آللاه بير محممد على́دير / Allah bir Məhəmməd Əlidir. // Allah is unique Muhammad-Ali.
اؤزوم غوربتده سالمازام / Özüm qürbəttə salmazam, // I can't let out my own essence to places far from my homeland,
آللاه بير محممد على́دير / Allah bir Məhəmməd Əlidir. // Allah is unique Muhammad-Ali.
اونلار بيردير، بير اولوبدور / Onlar birdir, bir olubdur, // They are unique, a single one, i.e. Haqq-Muhammad-Ali,
يئردن گؤيه نور اولوبدور / Yerdən göyə nur olubdur, // It's a nūr from Earth to Sky,
دؤرد گوشه ده سيرر اولوبدور، / Dörd guşədə sirr olubdur, // It's a mysterious occult secret in every corner of the square,
آللاه بير محممد على́دير / Allah bir Məhəmməd Əlidir. // Allah is unique Muhammad-Ali.
ختايى بو يولدا سردير / Xətai bu yolda sirdir, // Khatai in this tariqah is a mysterious occult secret,
سرين وئره نلر ده اردير / Sirrin verənlər də ərdir, // Those reveal their own secret are private as well,
آيدا سيردير، گونده نوردور / Ayda sirdir, gündə nurdur, // Secret on Moon, nūr on Sun,
آللاه بير محممد على́دير / Allah bir Məhəmməd Əlidir. // Allah is unique Muhammad-Ali.

Preq: Turkish or iranian culture (since the qizilibash were dervied mainly from turks but also from iranians)
 
Last edited:

EmpwessVawie

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Preq: Turkish

- Kisilibaslik
+2 Tolerance towards the true faith
+5% Discipline

Preq: Turkish or iranian culture (since the qizilibash were dervied mainly from turks but also from iranians)
Kizilbashli's in Anatolia would be mostly Kurdish, with Turkish people being split between both Bektashi's and Kizilbashli. (Especially in the provinces it could be represented in game, the Alevi's in Dersim, or what was renamed Tunceli long after the game's end-date are Kurdish).

The Safavid Qizilbash (Militants, not religious movement) came from a diverse range of backgrounds: Turkic, Kurdish but also Georgian, Armenian and the like. I don't think that should matter though as Kizilbash Alevism doesn't have a direct relation to that as the name implies. It's a label that people later on started to give the many different Alevi folk practices that were present in Anatolia/Armenian highlands.

In essence Alevism was a counter-reaction by ethnic and religious minorities to the centralized orthodox Sunni Muslim states at the time, that's why it's Bektashi's and Kizilbash Alevi's are present in the less controlled, ethnically/culturally diverse regions of the Ottoman Empire. Limiting that to a specific culture makes little sense here in my opinion and limits options for very plausible alt-history.
 

fredrikslicer

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Kizilbashli's in Anatolia would be mostly Kurdish, with Turkish people being split between both Bektashi's and Kizilbashli. (Especially in the provinces it could be represented in game, the Alevi's in Dersim, or what was renamed Tunceli long after the game's end-date are Kurdish).

The Safavid Qizilbash (Militants, not religious movement) came from a diverse range of backgrounds: Turkic, Kurdish but also Georgian, Armenian and the like. I don't think that should matter though as Kizilbash Alevism doesn't have a direct relation to that as the name implies. It's a label that people later on started to give the many different Alevi folk practices that were present in Anatolia/Armenian highlands.

In essence Alevism was a counter-reaction by ethnic and religious minorities to the centralized orthodox Sunni Muslim states at the time, that's why it's Bektashi's and Kizilbash Alevi's are present in the less controlled, ethnically/culturally diverse regions of the Ottoman Empire. Limiting that to a specific culture makes little sense here in my opinion and limits options for very plausible alt-history.
That is a wonderfully confusing history so fair enough
 

AirikrStrife

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These were information I found about Kurds from various sources,

So when you wrote this reply I never got around to getting involved in the topic so I didn't have anything to reply with
Though now, when I was in the library the other day I coincidentialy found a book on yezidis and one on kurdish history, didn't learn much relevant to the 1444 set up, though they were just really interesting and got me involved again and considering revisiting the entirety of kurdistan.
Replying to you suggestion and some thoughts:
I couldn't find your sources, though my own primary source 'survival among the kurds' uses sharafname, and also just generally seems to hold up to being one of the best books on the topic after I did some checks on it.
So by sharafname itself it's mentioned that the donboli's and Mahmudis were yazidi in the 15th century. By the map you're posting it would mean van province was at least mostly controlled by yazidis.
For the situation in dohuk, I managed a more detailed understanding, with dohuk and lalish at the time being controlled by yazidi emirs of sheikhan, though amadiya was not and they would later conquer dohuk, meaning it's really up for grabs who to give the area to.
For the emirate of hakkari, it was temporarily disbanded around the time of the game start, parts of it given to donboli and mahmud tribe as mentioned in your source as well, though I haven't figured out the exact year
also I'm very keen on those assyrian tribes of tyare and surrounding, so personally not prioritizing a kurdish province there
Im pretty confident for my call of kilis being yazidi majority.
So in regards to the yazidi parts of my suggestion, they hold up very well and there's a bit of room for possible increase of yazidi power in the region

For kurdish tags though, I'd be all for diversifying them a bit, adding some new tags from start, gonna try to see which ones were directly controlled by turcomans and which ones were not, in 1444, and make a carefully balanced suggestion about this.

Most notable I'm still struggling with the alevi part, now not alevi in my suggestion also includes qizilbash so basically all shia muslims in anatolia, and especially the area north of diyarbekir needs to be looked at in more detail, and the kizilbash presence

Also while not a kurdish formable is needed, I would see kurdistan as a dynamic name one the region is united.