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chatnoir17

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roads might be static sadly as I don't really know what happens to depending building if the modifier is removed.
the importance of the road is made in this case by the use you of it : the more you develop buildings the more cash you earn. but it fails simulating competition between roads or cities on 2 different roads.

trade nodes cumulate the bonuses of the different modifiers + cumulate the building possiblities. you might also make cross requirements for buildings, making some requiring both a land and fluvial modifier.
Can I use triggers like this?
Code:
any_neighbor_province = { 
   any_neighbor_province = {
      limit = { Not = ROOT/THIS }
      has_province_modifier = X
   }
}
If it is possible, we can make a trade hub in a region, and a secondary area around it etc. and finaly a circle with a center of trade.



I'm working on a quite perveted system but it requires to disable completly boats from the map. then I changed the sprite for trade posts, made coastal (with a one dot maritime province in + adjacencies to link those) all provinces I want to be able to develop the trade post holding, then specialisation of holding with the modifiers+buildings system I described above.

http://i789.photobucket.com/albums/yy174/ArKoG/metz3_zpsb42aca33.png
Looks nice! Though I would have another idea about land provinces, since I hope there will be another way for cities than all you have to do is moving toward seas. F.e. South German cities had surely some connection with Holland or Venice, but their wealth was mainly based on products in Germany, Bohemia and Hungary.
 

Arko

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Can I use triggers like this?
Code:
any_neighbor_province = { 
   any_neighbor_province = {
      limit = { Not = ROOT/THIS }
      has_province_modifier = X
   }
}
If it is possible, we can make a trade hub in a region, and a secondary area around it etc. and finaly a circle with a center of trade.
yes this should work if you want to target all the provinces around the node.
I though about this kind of trigger to make roads fluctuating or even tracing them with more or less randomness but it definetly goes in every direction and i found no way to give a proper orientation.
 

chatnoir17

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yes this should work if you want to target all the provinces around the node.
I though about this kind of trigger to make roads fluctuating or even tracing them with more or less randomness but it definetly goes in every direction and i found no way to give a proper orientation.
In my trade spheres mod, I have created some regions, and I could use that division of the map. For example...


I. In some point in game, a trade center will be founded in region (maybe with some high technology and buildings).

View attachment 72122
In this case, London.

II. Around this center A, secondary hubs (white provinces) will be put in every other provinces.
View attachment 72123

III. Connected points (orange small circles) between the Cot and hubs will appear after that.
View attachment 72126

IV. Trade routes will be set after that.
View attachment 72127

We can also make this CoT banished. In this case, another secondary hub will become a new CoT within 10 or 20 years.
 

Arko

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ok.
what are the criterias of expansion to make the road completing ? or is it automated/systematic ?
 

chatnoir17

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ok.
what are the criterias of expansion to make the road completing ? or is it automated/systematic ?
buildings or modifiers, maybe. Honestly speaking, these roads are just a cool thing, and they bring nothing except small income bonus, I am afraid.
I have still no idea how to create a long way between Baltic and Adrian seas, f.e.
 

Arko

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those provinces with roads, if you own a group of them (X number) or all in a said region you can then be able to create a titular duchy title to grant to create a vassal republic maybe ?
I don't know if counting things is really possible in the game apart the recently added number_of_trade_post.
 

chatnoir17

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those provinces with roads, if you own a group of them (X number) or all in a said region you can then be able to create a titular duchy title to grant to create a vassal republic maybe ?
I don't know if counting things is really possible in the game apart the recently added number_of_trade_post.
If you want to know the total amount of these road or hub/COT modifiers, we can use variables for counting.
 

chatnoir17

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Another problem is the way how to represent Trade goods with these trade routes. I am considering that trade ports of maritime republics could be a bonus to discover trade goods in land-locked provinces, or to develop manufactories.
 
Last edited:

Arko

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Another problem is the way how to represent Trade goods with these trade routes. I am considering that trade ports of maritime republics could be a bonus to discover trade goods in land-locked provinces, or to develop manufactories.
well, even if you add other goods types you will still end up translating it into money in game terms. not sure it really brings something more to the game.
 

chatnoir17

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well, even if you add other goods types you will still end up translating it into money in game terms. not sure it really brings something more to the game.
Technologies or warfare maybe?
 

Arko

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Technologies or warfare maybe?
trade centers as center of diffusion of knowledge/research for sure but it is a bit different than trading different goods ;) (unless we can have another way to impact technologies ?).
warfare could work.
 

chatnoir17

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trade centers as center of diffusion of knowledge/research for sure but it is a bit different than trading different goods ;) (unless we can have another way to impact technologies ?).
How about adding trade goods small positive and negative technology modifiers? F.e. agricultural goods increases commercial technology, but decreases intellectual technology, since this modifier suggests some "rural" area.
 

Arko

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How about adding trade goods small positive and negative technology modifiers? F.e. agricultural goods increases commercial technology, but decreases intellectual technology, since this modifier suggests some "rural" area.
I don't know if we can do that but it could be interesting. buildings at least can't give a bonus/malus to a specific tech.
 

cybrxkhan

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Chatnoir17, I don't entirely understand what you're planning to do with land trade routes, but if you do manage to do something awesome, that would be quite applaudable indeed! How exactly will the land trade system work at this point?

I would really hope that any sort of land trade route system will give just to - or allow other modders to give justice to - the Silk Road and the Saharan trade routes as well.
 

chatnoir17

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I don't know if we can do that but it could be interesting. buildings at least can't give a bonus/malus to a specific tech.
If we can't give bonus to each specific technology, it is Ok for me to give it generic mil/eco/cul technologies.

Chatnoir17, I don't entirely understand what you're planning to do with land trade routes, but if you do manage to do something awesome, that would be quite applaudable indeed! How exactly will the land trade system work at this point?

I would really hope that any sort of land trade route system will give just to - or allow other modders to give justice to - the Silk Road and the Saharan trade routes as well.
I am still gathering idea, but here is my thought. Just the variation from above pictures, though.

Example in Germany and France

I. Venice, Genoa and (maybe Lübeck/Brugge) have coastal COTs at the start.




II. With some technological advance and buildings, some land COTs will be established.




III. After that local hubs will appear. We can see the connection between Baltic and Mediterranean Sea with 5-10 hubs. Trade goods in the neighbouring regions will come in this area.




IV. Between hubs and COTs we can create connecting spots and roads with modifiers or buildings. I am not sure if we can make a trigger which requires two DIFFERENT provinces having the same modifier, though (it is the key for this step).






 
Last edited:

chatnoir17

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I am not sure if we can make a trigger which requires two DIFFERENT provinces having the same modifier, though (it is the key for this step).
Self answering. Such an event works for that.

Code:
province_event = {
    id = TSM.3
    desc = EVTDESC_TSM_003
    
    picture = GFX_evt_busy_trading_dock_republic
    border = GFX_event_normal_frame_intrigue
    
    trigger = {
        ai = no
        has_province_modifier = hub_station
        any_neighbor_province = {
            any_neighbor_province = {
                has_province_modifier = hub_station
            }
        }
    }
        
    
    option = {
        name = EVTOPTA_TSM_003
        random_neighbor_province = {
            limit = {
                any_neighbor_province = {
                    limit = { NOT = { province_id = ROOT }
                    has_province_modifier = hub_station
                }
            }
            add_province_modifier = {
                name = connect_spot
                duration = -1
            }
        }
    }
}
It fires in provinces which have the modifier hub_station, and gives neighboring provinces which have one another province having hub_station modifier.
 

cybrxkhan

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Darn, that's pretty nifty. If only we could mod the UI to show all these hubs, as I'd imagine it'd be a tad irritating to have to check a bunch of provinces to see what's going on.
 

chatnoir17

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Darn, that's pretty nifty. If only we could mod the UI to show all these hubs, as I'd imagine it'd be a tad irritating to have to check a bunch of provinces to see what's going on.
I am also afraid that we need some kind of mapping if this system is introduced.

Here are some more thoughts about international relations. I have created some regions in the trade spheres mod, which are coded in the continent.txt of the map folder.



Each region could have a COT, I think.


We can bind each two regions for representing more larger areas.



If we give some events for neighbouring areas, land connections will be roughly created.



We also create some sea routes between far areas.




So I think I have more or less solved conceptual and technical problems for trade routes. However, I am not sure whether this system would be fun. Since I don't like systems for systems, I have to make this trading mechanic more meaningful.