Map modification(South-Central Europe)

[unmerged(10777)]

Does 'Kosovo' really have to be that big and if it does wouldn't it be better off 'Nis'?

One must take into account that EU2 typically uses regional names rather than cities for provinces--thus, "Kosovo" fits perfectly. I've no idea what to call the FYROM province northwest of Macedonia--the city should be Ochrida/Ohrid or Skopje. The province split off from Bulgaria should probably be called Rhodope (again, I don't know the historical/regional name for it) for the mountain range in the area while its city should be Philoppopolis/Plovdiv. I agree with Underhand: Gallipoli was rather small and almost unimportant (well, the Turks used it as a base to cross over into Europe earlier on, but it's not too terribly important till WWI)--that province should be Thrace and Thrace should be Constantinople (yes, it is too long) or Byzantium ("Byzantion" is the more Greek version), I believe. Finellach probably has a much greater understanding than mine own of the Serbo-Croatian Balkan provinces so I shan't give any opinions on those.
Edit: Please let's be civil with one another--I really don't want this thread closed, too.

 

[unmerged(27913)]

I am perfectly aware that my latest map have too many provinces, and that's why I asked for suggestions to provinces I could merge.

There is already a map done by Xie in this thread...

You don't like what I do? Well tough luck, then don't use it. What do I care?

Damn right I don't like what you do. Your maps of Croatia-Dalmatia region are just terrible...TERIBBLE. And even though you yourself say that you don't know absoulutly nothing about this part of Europe you disregard my and other people's advices who obviously know much more than you about this area.

Well now I noticed there will be an editor free for use by everyone....so I don't really care what you'll do....I am sure you'll do it wrong.

Cheerio...

 

[unmerged(17489)]

Damn right I don't like what you do. Your maps of Croatia-Dalmatia region are just terrible...TERIBBLE. And even though you yourself say that you don't know absoulutly nothing about this part of Europe you disregard my and other people's advices who obviously know much more than you about this area.

Advice? I would hardly consider a "make it my way or no way at all" an advice, but ok

 

[unmerged(27913)]

Advice? I would hardly consider a "make it my way or no way at all" an advice, but ok

That was said in anger....I am basically begging him for this whole thread and he constatly refuses my proposition...well ask me if I care anymore...

 

[Underhand]

I believe I have a solution to the Constantinople/Thrace problem. My suggestions so far have been made based on geographical areas, but unfortunately Thrace covers both the 'Gallipoli' province and the 'Thrace' province. If however you name the provinces after the Byzantine Themes of the time (well, a bit earlier since the Byzantines don't own much land in 1419), then the province currently named Macedonia would be renamed 'Thessalonika', the one currently called Gallipoli would be 'Macedonia' and Thrace would retain its name. The most important city in Thessalonika would of course be Thessaloniki.

Oh and the Thrace theme didn't include the Gallipoli Peninsula, so nyar nyar nyar

 

[Underhand]

Finellach, you should remember that Hive is making his map for his Age of Imperialism mod. He has to cover the period from 1337-1913, and so has to distribute provinces over a greater area of the world than most map mods would. This means that he doesn't have as many provinces to spare making every area extremely accurate, and he must sacrifice a certain amount of accuracy to model the history of almost two additional centuries. His goals are not going to be completely compatible with yours, nor should they be. Offer him advice, fine, but don't try to coerce him focussing overly on one part of the world at the expense of the rest.

 

[Earl Uhtred]

I really appreciate Hive's work, but wouldn't it make sense to keep the AoI-optimised map distinct from the 'official' fan version?

 

[unmerged(27913)]

Underhand I am having that in mind...in fact I made my map proposition having in mind that it needs to be both historical, strategically well made and also to have touch with later modern times.

And I haven't asked anyone to focus anything on this or that part of the world.....I was saying how this province would be the most historically and startegically best.
Anyway I can't do much if someone refuses to take my advice even if he admits he knows absolutly nothing about this region...

 

[Hive]

I really appreciate Hive's work, but wouldn't it make sense to keep the AoI-optimised map distinct from the 'official' fan version?

I never said I was working on any such "Official Fan Map" - and I don't believe there will be one, either.

I have said it before, and I'll say it again: you can't make a new map for vanilla EU2, you have to make it part of a mod (be it an already existing one or one you create as part of your mapping efforts).

 

[Abdul Goatherd]

I've no idea what to call the FYROM province northwest of Macedonia--the city should be Ochrida/Ohrid or Skopje.

How about "Pelagonia" where FYROM is?

The province split off from Bulgaria should probably be called Rhodope (again, I don't know the historical/regional name for it) for the mountain range in the area while its city should be Philoppopolis/Plovdiv.

Could be Dacia?

I agree with Underhand: Gallipoli was rather small and almost unimportant (well, the Turks used it as a base to cross over into Europe earlier on, but it's not too terribly important till WWI)--that province should be Thrace and Thrace should be Constantinople (yes, it is too long) or Byzantium ("Byzantion" is the more Greek version), I believe. Finellach probably has a much greater understanding than mine own of the Serbo-Croatian Balkan provinces so I shan't give any opinions on those.
Edit: Please let's be civil with one another--I really don't want this thread closed, too.

How 'bout Salonica (for where Macedonia is now), Macedonia (for where Gallipoli is now) and Thrace (for Constantinople)?

EDIT: Just realized that Underhand suggested this too. Means it must be right!

 

[Underhand]

Could be Dacia?

Dacia is north of the Danube. I'll try and find something else, but the only thing I can think of to call it is Philippopolis, but that is A) a city name and B) too damn long.

Edit: You could name the province 'Maritza' or 'Maritsa'. That is the name of a river that flows past Philippopolis, its principle city. The river is apparently navigable up to Philippopolis. I don't know whether that last fact matters to you A map of the upper Maritsa region is available here.

Philippopolis was the capital of the Roman province Thracia. Probably not helpful to you since Thracia is both anachronistic and sounds a lot like Thrace.

The Bogomils were driven out of the area in the thirteenth century, so perhaps you could call it 'Bogomils'. Sounds a bit weird though.

Out of the unimpressive selection I have come up with, Maritsa is probably the best.

How 'bout Salonica (for where Macedonia is now), Macedonia (for where Gallipoli is now) and Thrace (for Constantinople)?

EDIT: Just realized that Underhand suggested this too. Means it must be right!

I like the way you think

 

[unmerged(10777)]

Yes, I certainly agree with that. "Salonica" was the Western name for "Thessaloniki," so it fits. I'm not too sure about "Macedonia" for "Gallipoli," but if both you and Underhand thought so, it must be somewhat correct. I suppose "Thrace" must be the best name for that province. On Dacia...the ancient Roman Empire called the Wallachian region by that name, but I do believe the Eastern Romans called their Bulgarian regions "Dacia," if I'm remembering correctly. That might be too confusing, but since we've no other alternatives save mine own hokey "Rhodope"...I must confess I've never heard of "Pelagonia;" is that an ancient name for the area?

 

[sacho1234]

Here's my latest Balkan map:

Please help me merge some of those too small provinces

Split "Rumelia" horizontally in 2.

Merge the southern part with the "?" province north of "Gallipoli" and call it (the "?") Rumelia.

Merge the northern part with the "?" province north of "Bulgaria", and with the province in the TI to the north of it and keep the "Dobrudja" name.

So from 5 provinces you can bring it down to 3, more in line w/ the geographical characteristics of the area.

I really like the introduction of the "?" province to the NW of "Macedonia," an appropriate name may come from one of the major mountains/rivers in that region.

 

[Owen]

Split "Rumelia" horizontally in 2.

Merge the southern part with the "?" province north of "Gallipoli" and call it (the "?") Rumelia.

Merge the northern part with the "?" province north of "Bulgaria", and with the province in the TI to the north of it and keep the "Dobrudja" name.

So from 5 provinces you can bring it down to 3, more in line w/ the geographical characteristics of the area.

I really like the introduction of the "?" province to the NW of "Macedonia," an appropriate name may come from one of the major mountains/rivers in that region.

Is there any chance you could explain your reasons for these changes?

That way it becomes easier to reach a concensus, and we avoid the inevitable arguments that run along the lines of "do it my way because I know more about the area than you do". Thanks.

 

[Abdul Goatherd]

On Dacia...the ancient Roman Empire called the Wallachian region by that name, but I do believe the Eastern Romans called their Bulgarian regions "Dacia," if I'm remembering correctly. That might be too confusing, but since we've no other alternatives save mine own hokey "Rhodope"...

Actually, I prefer Rhodope. A mountain range forms a better name for a province than a river or some shifting Roman designation. Not hokey at all.

I must confess I've never heard of "Pelagonia;" is that an ancient name for the area?

Ancient & modern. Upper reaches of ancient Macedonia were called "Pelagonia". It was still called that throughout the Middle Ages and the name remains there today in southern FYROM. I suppose it's better than inventing a new name. And since we're placing Macedonia in Greece, it would be politically nice to give FYROM a Macedonian-connected Hellenic name.

 

[Underhand]

I must confess I've never heard of "Pelagonia;" is that an ancient name for the area?

Pelagonia is indeed the ancient name for the province '?' north of Epirus. From some searches that turned up several tourist sites, it would appear that it is still the name of the area in modern Macedonia. I think therefore that it's a perfect name for the province, unless someone says the name was different during the period.

Edit: Abdul and I said the same thing again? This is getting spooky

 

[Earl Uhtred]

Sounds far too classical. I prefer 'Vardar' or some such.

 

[unmerged(27913)]

People what you are discussing now isn't South-Central Europe, it's South-East Europe.
South-Central covers the area of former Austrian Monarchy.

 

[sacho1234]

Is there any chance you could explain your reasons for these changes?

That way it becomes easier to reach a concensus, and we avoid the inevitable arguments that run along the lines of "do it my way because I know more about the area than you do". Thanks

My only reason was the location of the mountain ranges in the region, but in order to give better suggestions I would have to know what strategic locales control of each province will represent.

For example in the original map - what is the main city in "Gallipoli"? If it is a port city and the province represents contol of the Marmara/Aegean sea coast, then this province should not be accessible via land from "Rumelia", as it looks like the latter represents control of the Black sea coast, with a port city as well...

What I had in mind was "Gallipoli" as a port province on the coast, "Rumelia" without a port to represent control of all of Thrace but the Constantinople hintherland ("Thrace" on the map) and "Dobrudja" as a coastal province with a port.

 

[chegitz guevara]

For the first map of the Balkans, I suggest using Cattaro instead of Durres. Durres fell to the Ottomans, Cattaro never did, so the Venetians will have a slightly easier time holding on to it.

For "west Thrace," how about Edirne? It wasn't Macedonia, and it's nice and short. It should reach to the Dardenelles, btw.

Instead of Lesbos (which would be a Byzantine possession) make it Chios, a Genoese possession, and one which fell much later to the Ottomans.

You probably know my objections to Ragusa, but I'll restate them. With the exception of the Napolianic wars, Ragusa played viturally no part politically or militarily in the game. It was, for a brief period of the game, a vassal of Hungary, and after the fall of Constantinople, a vassal of the Turks. For all intents and puporses, it was part of the Ottoman empire, who allowed them some local sovreignty in exchange for carrying out trade in the Balkans and Ottoman protection from Venice. It will never lead to any historical results, as it will join alliances, get into wars, hate the Ottomans, and all sorts of things Ragusa never did. It makes about as much sense to include them as it does to include Andorra.