EU4 Dev Clash #12 - Emperor - Wednesdays 15:00 CET

[klingonadmiral]

At minimum there should some kind of score penalty, 25%, 50%, idk, but it shouldnt be nothing. The same goes for Kaiser Johan btw. I think, in any competitive format, it shouldnt be a viable strategy to get knocked out and essentially get a free re-roll in more favorable conditions.

I actually somewhat disagree for the Kaiser. He got kicked out of his original country in session 1 and built his massive empire out of the Aztecs. Personally:

Being relocated after the first session is free, as this one is easily the most volatile session around. Especially if several players are starting in adjacent small nations, often at least one of them will find himself dead.

After that being relocated will incurr a 25% score penalty for the rest of the Age of Discovery, which rises by 25% for every subsequent age.

 

[Hawkslime]

Welp, its over. A great devclash and an epic episode.

I send congratulations to Sanke, Kaiser and Starnan, and as a faithful Commonwealth fan, also this to Da9L:

 

[Sir-Rogers]

Overall very epic dev clash, tonnes of memorable fights well played to all involved, especially Sir Rodgers for not giving up and sticking with Austria too the very end

Thank you for watching! I hope you guys enjoyed it as much as we did

 

[Cookie1]

Welp, its over. A great devclash and an epic episode.

I send congratulations to Sanke, Kaiser and Starnan, and as a faithful Commonwealth fan, also this to Da9L:
View attachment 587696

To be fair the commonwealth could've easily avoided it had they not joined the war. Not even sure how/why they joined considering it was the Papacy who triggered the giant coalition against the Germans...

 

[Blackwhitecavias]

I actually somewhat disagree for the Kaiser. He got kicked out of his original country in session 1 and built his massive empire out of the Aztecs. Personally:

Being relocated after the first session is free, as this one is easily the most volatile session around. Especially if several players are starting in adjacent small nations, often at least one of them will find himself dead.

After that being relocated will incurr a 25% score penalty for the rest of the Age of Discovery, which rises by 25% for every subsequent age.

I actually disagree with your way of giving score penalties for relocation:

If you get a new nation early you have more time to set up, get VC's on AI (considering being relocated usually puts you away from most players), etc. Being relocated later doesn't give you this time (see Brunei and Majapahit). KJ got a bad nation to be relocated in (truce-locked vassal), but did get one with a lot of potential (the Mexico area is quite good and it would take a long time for Europeans to colonize all of east coast). He also profited of the fact that there were almost no players in Asia which allowed him to grow a lot.

In my opinion the main issue in this dev clash was that everyone started in Europe which meant that relocated players got placed in areas ruled by AI's and that a lot of players were destroyed in the early sessions (which then caused grudges against the Germans) and that it would have been better to have players more spread out over Eurasia (leaving Africa and the new world open for early relocations, which would still happen, but be less powerful).

 

[klingonadmiral]

I actually disagree with your way of giving score penalties for relocation:

I certainly see that you have a point. Being relocated first is a huge advantage, this clash seen especially well with the Indians vs Timurids.

Perhaps simply the GM being a bit smarter about who he places where might actually fix most things. StarNAN in Manchu and the Manchu player in Ming would've been a more interesting setup.

 

[GeneralPetrov]

Fantastic Dev clash, congrats to sanke for his well deserved golden victory!

As much as I was rooting for the Commonwealth to win 3rd place, I find it pretty hilarious that the reason he lost was because that he, as a Hussite, came to the aid of the Catholic Pope. I guess Jan Hus did not approve of that.

 

[KaiserJohan]

Fun fact, I was originally planning on siding with the Germans against the Italians before the coalition kicked in to get back into Italy. But the interference in the American war turned things around and they had created alot of enemies throughout the game. And if we went into Italy later I am sure they would've tried to kick us out afterwards.
I was also terrified @Sirrebirre aka Mr. 500 was going to form the Netherlands and/or reform GBR after killing them. That would've killed my Naval game.

At session 3 I made the plan to escape into Japan and go full Naval. The Naval hegemony is by far the easiest to acquire and hard to dislodge you once you get it.

I am abit bummed out by being unable to score my 3K VC card despite owning all of the provinces and the silly Hegemon white peace loss... that lost me the 1st place. But I was not going to backstab Brazil who was very helpful throughout the game.

Overall it was a nice, relaxing devclash. Being the prime Naval power nothing could break me so I never really had to worry about being conquered. At worst I would loose some mainland provinces but thats it. It was also nice not being the target of a huge coalition for once. Also the diplomacy game was 100% on point

 

[Caligula Caesar]

To be fair the commonwealth could've easily avoided it had they not joined the war. Not even sure how/why they joined considering it was the Papacy who triggered the giant coalition against the Germans...

It was actually Sardinia-Piedmont that did a lot of the triggering of that, there'a a reason I stayed out of all the adventures in the East in the past two sessions, I made certain promises Besides, I had to stand up for liberty, honour and freedom from oppression in the Americas this time around!

 

[Brynjar]

It was a good dev clash, with excitement all the way to the end. Thanks to Paradox for arranging it, and @DDRJake for hosting it. Jake as a commentator makes it all the more exciting. Hoping to see a dev clash return after the summer.

 

[Wagonlitz]

Thanks for hosting, Jake. You did a great job as always and you being the host really adds to a dev clash.

Was a really entertaining clash, even if I'd have loved for der Kaiser to get it.

essentially get a free re-roll in more favorable conditions.

I wouldn't really call a vassalised Aztecs with Europeans in Mesoamerica already as a more favourable condition. Had Castille not been nice and helped him then he'd have died or at the very least not become more than a second rate power.

I am abit bummed out by being unable to score my 3K VC card despite owning all of the provinces

A CN owning a VC area doesn't make you tick score? Because if it does then I'm not sure why you didn't form the CN, especially towards the end. Sure, you might lose the CN again, but it'd be worth the try, I'd imagine.

the silly Hegemon white peace loss..

I think it was more than silly. I outright think that rule is dumb. You don't lose the defender of faith from taking a white peace, so why should you lose a hegemon. You're a hegemon, not th God Emperor of Man. White peacing somebody doesn't make you stop being a hegemon. Just means you let them off lightly. Espceailly if it's not even the entire war, but just a tertiary participant you're white peacing.

That no longer fulfilling the requirements to have a hegemony and having ticked down to 0 doesn't make you lose the hegemony just makes the white peace rule even worse, I think.






For the Germans/Mughals then I'm surpriesd that you didn't attack Ming again around 1815 just before the Ferghana card cored. As long as Ming is in a war with the Mughals his cores won't finish and hence the card won't start ticking. That might actually have been enough to save third place, or at the very least bring it straight to the wire. Since whil the war would be lost, then they'd still need to force it to end which easily could take teh rest of the game or at the very least would delay the ticking by a few years.

 

[KaiserJohan]

CN didn't work either sadly. I formed "Newer Tibet" around 1800s. Needs to be directly owned by your tag. As for 3rd it didn't really matter for me & Brazil as long as we got 1st and 2nd

 

[Wagonlitz]

Needs to be directly owned by your tag

That's a bug then, I'd argue, and something which ought to be fixed. Either to have CNs count as owner, like how you can build canals in CN territory, or to have cards in the New World respawn in the old if you move capital.
Obviously the first option is way way better than the latter since the latter can be gamed.


With regard to 3rd then it was meant as Mughals/Germans not attacking around 1815, not you. You'd not gain anything. Mughals attacking with Germans might would have stalled the coring and hence the Ferghana card would not have started ticking, which might have made the difference.

 

[TheFourthRome]

Awesome clash! Congratulations to Sanke, Kaiser Johan, and StarNan on the trophies. I would like one last look at the stats, I believe by the end Japan was top of admin, dip, and mil rating? How!

 

[Drmcdevitt]

I had fun watching the clash and I’m glad you brought Jake in for hosting. Sorry to commonwealth for loosing out to bum Benin. The Asian alliance clearly got out maneuvered despite having 500k more troops. Honestly commonwealth should have hired every available merc with The 50k in the bank and smashed benin and held on in nepal

 

[Ofaloaf]

It was actually Sardinia-Piedmont that did much of the triggering of that, there'a a reason I stayed out of all the adventures in the East in the past two sessions, I made certain promises Besides, I had to stand up for liberty, honour and freedom from oppression in the Americas this time around!

Sardinia-Piedmont was a shining beacon of liberty in this last session, as was Brazil and Andalusia. I can't thank all you guys enough for your willingness to support Vermont and I in those final conflicts.

 

[Sirrebirre]

Fun fact, I was originally planning on siding with the Germans against the Italians before the coalition kicked in to get back into Italy. But the interference in the American war turned things around and they had created alot of enemies throughout the game. And if we went into Italy later I am sure they would've tried to kick us out afterwards.
I was also terrified @Sirrebirre aka Mr. 500 was going to form the Netherlands and/or reform GBR after killing them. That would've killed my Naval game.

At session 3 I made the plan to escape into Japan and go full Naval. The Naval hegemony is by far the easiest to acquire and hard to dislodge you once you get it.

I am abit bummed out by being unable to score my 3K VC card despite owning all of the provinces and the silly Hegemon white peace loss... that lost me the 1st place. But I was not going to backstab Brazil who was very helpful throughout the game.

Overall it was a nice, relaxing devclash. Being the prime Naval power nothing could break me so I never really had to worry about being conquered. At worst I would loose some mainland provinces but thats it. It was also nice not being the target of a huge coalition for once. Also the diplomacy game was 100% on point

Hahaha! Interesting... I had no interest in either forming GB or the Netherlands, I was simply pushing the force limit and manpower buy conquering more provinces. The naval game ain't for me.

 

[pdx-sanke]

CN didn't work either sadly. I formed "Newer Tibet" around 1800s. Needs to be directly owned by your tag. As for 3rd it didn't really matter for me & Brazil as long as we got 1st and 2nd

Most of the game I expected KJ to be #1 and that would be totally fine with me., even though other allies really wanted me there (and I thank their effort and support a lot!). Since his Aztec spawn we sticked together, made plans and discussed what was going on.

Like he said, we were leaning towards being friendly to germans, until the Vermont-Andalusia incident. That clearly got everyone together in a single cause, and we saw no reason not to join that (If you don't want a big target on you, the best action is to point a big arrow toward others). Big props to Wiz and Caligula for getting pretty much all the world onboard of that train.

After that, we were approached by germans with the offer of a peaceful coexistence with europeans, as long as we stayed neutral in Europe. They wanted to break Delhi, and that was clearly aligned with our plans, so why not?

The last session was a bit of a mess. We knew Europeans and Ming would probably fight. Maybe Indians too. We both wanted to stay away from major wars while we did our things. I also wanted to make sure Mexico did not grow too much since he was also a contender for the #3 spot, and I used that war as an excuse to both sides to stay out of it, while giving financial support here and there. If Prussia and Pope played the session, things would be very different, but I think we would still be #1 and #2.

Could Japan try to fight me, maybe seize my VCs to steal a bit of score and get #1? (I saw that comment a lot on Twitch). Yes, he could, and to be honest, if he at any moment told me he would try that, I would accept it. But I think that we gained nothing from that, it would not be a quick move and things could escalate really fast.

Finally, a token of appreciation to my other allies:
- @Da9L , who went with a bang in the last session. We remember Aragon (RIP), tried to "Make Africa Green Again" and I gladly supported him in all that mess (why did people accept the CtA from the AI Pope?)
- @Gorion3, again close allies since day 1. Being a passive player I mostly followed his calls, and joined most of his wars, even the ones where things went very wrong. In the end his country was a bit broken, but I also glady supported him until the end
- @Sir-Rogers , we did not do much together in game, but we talked a lot about it, he gave me great tips and early on believed I could be #1. Unfortunately I could not do much besides throwing a lot of money to him.
- a bunch of other people that allied with me or helped me in some way during most of the game (Great Britain, USA, Sardinia, Pope, Jerusalem, Ming)
(The pattern here is that I gave a lot of money to a lot of people heh)

 

[BoomKidneyShot]

I am abit bummed out by being unable to score my 3K VC card despite owning all of the provinces and the silly Hegemon white peace loss... that lost me the 1st place. But I was not going to backstab Brazil who was very helpful throughout the game.

It's almost like with the new Governing Capacity mechanic we should be allowed to choose whether to allow Colonial Nations to form, or keep the land for ourselves.

 

[Sir-Rogers]

So some have wondered about the situation in Italy in the very first session. Before the session a secret agreement had been reached that has been upheld until the end of the devclash. Also known as the Pactum Dei, between the (then) Holy Roman Emperor and the Holy See. Any actions that happened during the game ( apart from accidental mistakes ) were carried out in accordance with the agreement.

Before the outbreak of a global pandemic we had plans of showcasing this on stream in person, but that did not happen. I am truly sorry for the hostilities towards @KaiserJohan - this was one of the early brilliant diplomacy moves, as many others that followed during the devclash, carried out by @Wiz - it was both an honor and a pleasure to witness him use his diplomatic skillset first hand