Crusader Kings II ~ Quick Answers

[jonjowett]

As a Pagan can you restore Stonehenge?

Wiki says yes.

 

[jonjowett]

It's just weird how the AI doesn't have to do the same as the player

Maybe the "kills" aren't registering properly in the log? Because the event chain is the same for both human and AI.

Only once my sister killed someone and thus got a bloodline (for one kill), even before I finished my last battle.

Really?! Because, in my experience, you definitely need at least 3-4 kills on the legendary journey to get a warrior lodge bloodline.

 

[TheRealRemus]

Maybe the "kills" aren't registering properly in the log? Because the event chain is the same for both human and AI.



Really?! Because, in my experience, you definitely need at least 3-4 kills on the legendary journey to get a warrior lodge bloodline.

I dont know man, that how it happened. Ill join the other lodges and see what will happen there. See ya in few weeks ^^

 

[Varlin]

I'm going for the White Hun achievement and everyone in my court (other than prisoners) and all vassals were the same Hindu religion as my character, then suddenly over half have all switched to Jain, including my heir - does anyone know what can cause this to happen?

 

[jonjowett]

I'm going for the White Hun achievement and everyone in my court (other than prisoners) and all vassals were the same Hindu religion as my character, then suddenly over half have all switched to Jain, including my heir - does anyone know what can cause this to happen?

Do you have M&M enabled? If so, this sounds like what happens when a secret religious society becomes overt. But I would not expect a secret Jain society in a Hindu realm (the two religions get on pretty well).

Did you have a few events where you found a Jain religious text in your bedroom, which you could read or throw away, and if you read it you got the option to become Jain? If you did, it's almost certainly the secret society (those are recruitment events).

If you don't have M&M or you never saw the event, I guess it must be something else.

 

[noobermenschen]

Do you have M&M enabled? If so, this sounds like what happens when a secret religious society becomes overt. But I would not expect a secret Jain society in a Hindu realm (the two religions get on pretty well).

Did you have a few events where you found a Jain religious text in your bedroom, which you could read or throw away, and if you read it you got the option to become Jain? If you did, it's almost certainly the secret society (those are recruitment events).

If you don't have M&M or you never saw the event, I guess it must be something else.

I had that happen to me (Catholic, the book was Orthodox) and I do not have Monks & Mystics.

I have Reformed African spreading through Ireland right now. Just had to sack my Queen/Scandalous Councilor.

 

[Varlin]

Do you have M&M enabled? If so, this sounds like what happens when a secret religious society becomes overt. But I would not expect a secret Jain society in a Hindu realm (the two religions get on pretty well).

Did you have a few events where you found a Jain religious text in your bedroom, which you could read or throw away, and if you read it you got the option to become Jain? If you did, it's almost certainly the secret society (those are recruitment events).

If you don't have M&M or you never saw the event, I guess it must be something else.

That could well be it. I do have M&M enabled and have been getting the religious text pop-ups; I've also noticed that the last two times my ruler has died the heir has been secretly following the Jain religion.

Is it possible to kill off secret religious societies?

 

[TheRealRemus]

That could well be it. I do have M&M enabled and have been getting the religious text pop-ups; I've also noticed that the last two times my ruler has died the heir has been secretly following the Jain religion.

Is it possible to kill off secret religious societies?

there is no way of getting rid of them, they always come back even if you join them and kill all of them.
This is exactly why I play with secret religious societies off.
It was fun once reviving the Hellenic faith via a society but considering that every other minor religion has its own society is a huge pain in the arse.
Just play without it.

 

[jonjowett]

I had that happen to me (Catholic, the book was Orthodox) and I do not have Monks & Mystics.

I think the way it works is that someone with a secret religion uses the secret-religion-book event to try to make you join their secret religion.

Then, if you have M&M and aren't in any other society, the secret religious society may try to recruit you (by sending one of their members on a mission to recruit you). (The secret religious society may also spwn missions to secretly convert someone, and those may be identicsl to the secret-religion-book event, but I'm not sure about that part.)

If you don't have M&M, secret religions will still exist and might spread slowly, but you won't get the mass-reveal/mass-conversion that was observed in the original question.

 

[jonjowett]

Is it possible to kill off secret religious societies?

there is no way of getting rid of them, they always come back even if you join them and kill all of them.
This is exactly why I play with secret religious societies off.
It was fun once reviving the Hellenic faith via a society but considering that every other minor religion has its own society is a huge pain in the arse.
Just play without it.

I agree that it's not possible to kill them off.

Also, FYI, once they reveal themselves, they will refuse to convert to a different religion via diplomatic request ("True believer: --------"; but they will usually convert as a condition for release from prison).

However, I like to leave them on, because it adds a bit of challenge and a bit of role-play. YMMV, obviously!

 

[Poppydo]

Right now I play as Mathilda of Tuscany (1066) to experience life as someone else vassal. Only boring for the first 20 years because I'm poor as fuck and can't declare war because no valid target.

It's seem I can hold more than 2 Duchy title (right now 4) and no one have that "too many held duchies" negative opinion, even though they still have that "desire duchy of..." negative opinion.

I give Amalfi that I just conquer to my husband, Prince of Denmark (become Lord Mayor) who I marry matrilineally because he asked for land to govern. I don't know what happened, but 1 years later Amalfi became part of Denmark after he become Lord Mayor of Skane, not only Amalfi but also he steal my own Demesne, Siena. Without war or inherintance claim, Siena just disappear from my hand. Just want to know what trick he pull to steal land. Can human do it or only AI who can pull it out?

What trait most useful to fabricate claim easily? When Mathilda still alive, she made her son as Chancellor (22 diplomacy stat) and he can fabricate claim for 3 different county in a row, but now Mathilda long death, I try to use the same guy but it give me nothing, rolling him to 20 different county and still nothing. Hire other guy who have the same trait and still give me nothing, either I'm running out luck or just unlucky. Just need 1 more county to create Kingdom of Sicily.

That Amalfi mistake really cost me a Kingdom.

If I play as Robert 'the Fox' of Apulia (1066 start) and assign a Hungarian with Gregarious trait (without Conclave DLC) as Bohemond (8 years old at 1066) guardian, will Bohemond became Hungarian or not? Because what happen to me, he still Norman but with shitty trait instead of Brilliant Stategist.

 

[Andrew0Red]

"too many held duchies" negative opinion

That applies when you're a king. Your subjects expect you to hand out titles. If you hang on to 4 duchies when king, you _will_ suffer the penalties.

I give Amalfi that I just conquer to my husband

That is now his land, not yours. When he gained a higher title than yours, or just of the same rank, he could no longer be your vassal, and became independent instead, taking his Demesne with him. Remember, CK2 is about people, not countries; land is owned by people, it is not organised into countries yet, except on an ad hoc basis.

As for Siena, was it under Amalfi in some way? Because otherwise, it shouldn't change liege.

and he can fabricate claim for 3 different county in a row

Claims are highly random. Getting 3 in quick succession is a fluke. Claiming even a single county can easily take years.

 

[Varlin]

I agree that it's not possible to kill them off.

Also, FYI, once they reveal themselves, they will refuse to convert to a different religion via diplomatic request ("True believer: --------"; but they will usually convert as a condition for release from prison).

However, I like to leave them on, because it adds a bit of challenge and a bit of role-play. YMMV, obviously!

Thanks both.

I'm quite happy to leave it on for the flavour, I just hadn't seen it happen so dramatically before so wondered if I'd missed something.

 

[noobermenschen]

How many trade posts can a Merchant Republic realistically have? I (Prydain) have Cornwall as a vassal and they cover the British Isles/Channel coast but haven't spread much farther. The Med had Pisa (HRE) and Ragusa (Byzzie) who cover the Med throroughly but have not ventured much farther. There was an Islamic Republic in Iberia that is gone, so Iberia and Western Ireland have scattered posts from all three republics.

If I were seriously planning to blob as Byzzies or Mongols (not going to do it this time as it's 1424 already) how many Republic vassals could I have, and how far apart should I have them, to have nice orderly trade zones in a yuge realm? I was thinking one each in the Med, the Baltic (which does not have many cities at first so some seeding would be required), the British Isles and the Indian Ocean. Would there be room for a fifth in Iberia?

 

[Andrew0Red]

MRs grow in size over time. Partly, as their tech increases, they gain a larger multiplier. Partly, as time goes, those 4 single patricians start families and have sons. Each adult male dynast in the court increases Trade Post Limit by one for that familiy.

I'd say the first 30 should come quick. After that, don't expect too much more. And remember that's 30-60 land zones, not 30-60 sea zones.

 

[jonjowett]

How many trade posts can a Merchant Republic realistically have? I (Prydain) have Cornwall as a vassal and they cover the British Isles/Channel coast but haven't spread much farther. The Med had Pisa (HRE) and Ragusa (Byzzie) who cover the Med throroughly but have not ventured much farther. There was an Islamic Republic in Iberia that is gone, so Iberia and Western Ireland have scattered posts from all three republics.

If I were seriously planning to blob as Byzzies or Mongols (not going to do it this time as it's 1424 already) how many Republic vassals could I have, and how far apart should I have them, to have nice orderly trade zones in a yuge realm? I was thinking one each in the Med, the Baltic (which does not have many cities at first so some seeding would be required), the British Isles and the Indian Ocean. Would there be room for a fifth in Iberia?

Unfortunately for people who dislike bordergore, AI merchant republics will chase the profit and won't stay in their region. Your plan (with 2 MRs in the Med) should get full coverage, but it won't be as pretty as you imagine. (Unless you fix it with the console, I guess?)

Spoiler: long-winded example, digression & speculation

If you start in the Baltic and set up a republic of Gotland, the first few trade posts will be in the Baltic. After that, there's a pause. (Probably because the AI is busy reproducing - adult male unlanded dynasts in your court increases trade post limit, so it'll be a minimum of 16 years before the first increase in that limit.) The next trade post they build will be faraway in a much more profitable area. (Trade post cost increases with distance, but I think what happens here is the AI has been forced to do nothing for so long that they've built up a significant gold reserve, which means they can build trade posts in faraway counties that seem better in some way. Maybe it's city count: 2-3 cities per county, instead of 0-1?)

For full coverage by vassal MRs in a reasonable amount of time, I usually put one in the Baltic, one near Britain, 2 in the Med and 2 in the Indian Ocean. (Arguably, 2 in the Indian Ocean is overkill, but I need it because I use the harshest exclaves game rule.)

Spoiler: long-winded discussion of mechanics and tradeoffs

There are other factors than coverage that you need to consider for MR placement: the 10% limit and whether you will eventually need kingdom MRs.

The "10% limit" is the game rule that, if you are feudal, a maximum of 10% of your realm counties can be in vassal republics. This means you need to be careful to create vassal MRs in the smallest possible duchy.

The question with needing kingdom MRs is related to your target realm size and location. You have a limited number of vassals, but you want all vassal MRs to be your direct vassal, which means that you have two choices: (1) they are a duke where the de jure kingdom does not exist; or (2) they hold that de jure kingdom. (If they are a duke and their de jure king exists in your realm, then that king will conquer the MR. This conquest will probably destroy the MR. There is a possibility the king will simply vassalise the MR, in which case you will either lose a big revenue stream, or you have to revoke vassalage and risk the MR being destroyed again.)

Eg1: If my target empire is India + surroundings, then I'll want one kingdom MR in India (probably Lanka) and all other MRs can be duchies on scattered islands.

Eg2: If I was going for a full map conquest, I'd want all MRs to be kingdoms. I'd still start the MRs as duchies in the relevant areas, but I'd place those duchies in the smallest possible kingdoms - being especially careful to check that the "traditional capital" of the kingdom is coastal. (MRs can't choose to move their capital, but it can still happen.)

Baltic duchy: Gotland. (A 1-county island duchy.)
Baltic kingdom: The smallest one that has cities. Maybe Pomerania?

British duchy: Mann (Another 1-county island duchy)
British kingdom: Ireland (to keep the theme of MRs being islands) or Brittany (1-duchy kingdom, so no need to upgrade them to king)

Mediterranean duchies: Balearics aka Mallorca, Crete, Venice, Cyprus
Mediterranean kingdoms: Check de jure drift. Venice is good (1-county kingdom), but I dislike its connection to land for aesthetic reasons. Kingdom of Cyprus is my favourite, but requires extreme planning to create it in ironman. Kingdoms of Genoa and Pisa are good, but are fully land-based and may not exist. Kingdom of Sardinia and Corsica would be my reserve choice.

Indian Ocean duchies: Socotra, one of the ones on Lanka (but I'll usually just give the MR the whole island and let it form a kingdom)
Indian Ocean kingdoms: Lanka. Sindh. Socotra ->Yemen is OK in theory, but I find the borders really unaesthetic, and I can never be bothered to de jure drift them into something different.

For your purposes (aiming for a huge realm, where you won't be able to afford any unnecessary duke-tier vassals), I would recommend starting a duchy-level MR in the traditional capital of the following kingdoms:

• Any small Baltic kingdom with a coastal "traditional capital". Maybe Pomerania? Or Finland?
• Brittany
• 2 of: Cyprus, Venice, Genoa, Pisa.
  • Choose the most widely-spaced kingdoms that exist and have de jure territory - Venice is practically guaranteed; Genoa and Pisa might eventually exist with de jure territory; Cyprus probably won't ever exist unless you plan your run around creating it.
  • Fallback option: Sardinia+Corsica.
• Lanka and/or Sindh

If any of those duke-tier MRs are in a kingdom with more than one de jure duchy (eg. Lanka), you can later grant them the other de jure duchies and let the MR form the kingdom for themselves. (You can't grant kingdoms to MRs directly.) (If the MR is the only de jure duchy in their kingdom - eg. Venice - there's no need to upgrade them to king-tier.)

 

[noobermenschen]

Unfortunately for people who dislike bordergore, AI merchant republics will chase the profit and won't stay in their region. Your plan (with 2 MRs in the Med) should get full coverage, but it won't be as pretty as you imagine. (Unless you fix it with the console, I guess?)

Spoiler: long-winded example, digression & speculation

If you start in the Baltic and set up a republic of Gotland, the first few trade posts will be in the Baltic. After that, there's a pause. (Probably because the AI is busy reproducing - adult male unlanded dynasts in your court increases trade post limit, so it'll be a minimum of 16 years before the first increase in that limit.) The next trade post they build will be faraway in a much more profitable area. (Trade post cost increases with distance, but I think what happens here is the AI has been forced to do nothing for so long that they've built up a significant gold reserve, which means they can build trade posts in faraway counties that seem better in some way. Maybe it's city count: 2-3 cities per county, instead of 0-1?)

For full coverage by vassal MRs in a reasonable amount of time, I usually put one in the Baltic, one near Britain, 2 in the Med and 2 in the Indian Ocean. (Arguably, 2 in the Indian Ocean is overkill, but I need it because I use the harshest exclaves game rule.)

Spoiler: long-winded discussion of mechanics and tradeoffs

There are other factors than coverage that you need to consider for MR placement: the 10% limit and whether you will eventually need kingdom MRs.

The "10% limit" is the game rule that, if you are feudal, a maximum of 10% of your realm counties can be in vassal republics. This means you need to be careful to create vassal MRs in the smallest possible duchy.

The question with needing kingdom MRs is related to your target realm size and location. You have a limited number of vassals, but you want all vassal MRs to be your direct vassal, which means that you have two choices: (1) they are a duke where the de jure kingdom does not exist; or (2) they hold that de jure kingdom. (If they are a duke and their de jure king exists in your realm, then that king will conquer the MR. This conquest will probably destroy the MR. There is a possibility the king will simply vassalise the MR, in which case you will either lose a big revenue stream, or you have to revoke vassalage and risk the MR being destroyed again.)

Eg1: If my target empire is India + surroundings, then I'll want one kingdom MR in India (probably Lanka) and all other MRs can be duchies on scattered islands.

Eg2: If I was going for a full map conquest, I'd want all MRs to be kingdoms. I'd still start the MRs as duchies in the relevant areas, but I'd place those duchies in the smallest possible kingdoms - being especially careful to check that the "traditional capital" of the kingdom is coastal. (MRs can't choose to move their capital, but it can still happen.)

Baltic duchy: Gotland. (A 1-county island duchy.)
Baltic kingdom: The smallest one that has cities. Maybe Pomerania?

British duchy: Mann (Another 1-county island duchy)
British kingdom: Ireland (to keep the theme of MRs being islands) or Brittany (1-duchy kingdom, so no need to upgrade them to king)

Mediterranean duchies: Balearics aka Mallorca, Crete, Venice, Cyprus
Mediterranean kingdoms: Check de jure drift. Venice is good (1-county kingdom), but I dislike its connection to land for aesthetic reasons. Kingdom of Cyprus is my favourite, but requires extreme planning to create it in ironman. Kingdoms of Genoa and Pisa are good, but are fully land-based and may not exist. Kingdom of Sardinia and Corsica would be my reserve choice.

Indian Ocean duchies: Socotra, one of the ones on Lanka (but I'll usually just give the MR the whole island and let it form a kingdom)
Indian Ocean kingdoms: Lanka. Sindh. Socotra ->Yemen is OK in theory, but I find the borders really unaesthetic, and I can never be bothered to de jure drift them into something different.

For your purposes (aiming for a huge realm, where you won't be able to afford any unnecessary duke-tier vassals), I would recommend starting a duchy-level MR in the traditional capital of the following kingdoms:

• Any small Baltic kingdom with a coastal "traditional capital". Maybe Pomerania? Or Finland?
• Brittany
• 2 of: Cyprus, Venice, Genoa, Pisa.
  • Choose the most widely-spaced kingdoms that exist and have de jure territory - Venice is practically guaranteed; Genoa and Pisa might eventually exist with de jure territory; Cyprus probably won't ever exist unless you plan your run around creating it.
  • Fallback option: Sardinia+Corsica.
• Lanka and/or Sindh

If any of those duke-tier MRs are in a kingdom with more than one de jure duchy (eg. Lanka), you can later grant them the other de jure duchies and let the MR form the kingdom for themselves. (You can't grant kingdoms to MRs directly.) (If the MR is the only de jure duchy in their kingdom - eg. Venice - there's no need to upgrade them to king-tier.)

Thank you for the advice! I created Cornwall when I had 11 tiles and handed Devon as a feudal vassal (which has inherited over to my vassal King of Norway ). I was going to hand my Grand Mayor the Kingdom of Brittany as the only reason I could take it was Trade Post -> City -> County CBs, the Patricians actually could have usurped the title but never did. Good to know ahead of time I can't do this (French inheritences have messed up de jure drift anyway so I can safely keep the crown).

If I start a blob campaign I was planning on Kingdom level republics, so being unable to hand a Grand Mayor a Kingdom is good to know in advance. Frisia and Leon mebbe? Brittany is actually two Duchies now I think but also a possibility (That little three tile duchy to the east, unless there was de jure drift I wasn't paying attention to). Cyprus is definitely a candidate if I play as Byzzies. I was eyeing Yemen for the Indian ocean but am not familiar with the lay of the land in India so might look there if I am going east to west as a horse lord.

Cheers!

 

[jonjowett]

Thank you for the advice! I created Cornwall when I had 11 tiles and handed Devon as a feudal vassal (which has inherited over to my vassal King of Norway ). I was going to hand my Grand Mayor the Kingdom of Brittany as the only reason I could take it was Trade Post -> City -> County CBs, the Patricians actually could have usurped the title but never did. Good to know ahead of time I can't do this (French inheritences have messed up de jure drift anyway so I can safely keep the crown).

Actually, as an emperor over duke-tier MRs, I usually prefer to destroy their de jure kingdom rather than hold it myself, because this avoids the opinion penalty from them wanting the kingdom title. Yes, it's illogical because you literally cannot give them the kingdom, but it's already somewhat hard to keep MR vassal opinion above 0, and every little bit helps. (Opinion below 0 decreases tax revenue.)

If I start a blob campaign I was planning on Kingdom level republics, so being unable to hand a Grand Mayor a Kingdom is good to know in advance.

You can't give an MR a kingdom, but you can give them almost everything they need to form it for themselves. (>1 duchy, >50% land, 400 gold, 200 piety.)

Frisia and Leon mebbe?

A hard requirement is that the traditional capital of both the duchy and kingom is a coastal county. (The MR will try to move to the traditional capital, and if that is inland then the MR will be dismantled the next day.)

Leon's traditional capital is inland, so that's not a good idea.

Frisia seems ok, though. And it's vaguely historically appropriate too - the Dutch were big traders, but I think that was mostly after the CK2 era.

Brittany is actually two Duchies now

I just loaded up the game in 1066 and it's 3 duchies - I guess I'm really out of date on this one! But it's total number of counties that matters, and by that measure it's still a fairly small kingdom.

Cyprus is definitely a candidate if I play as Byzzies.

The Kingdom of Cyprus can only be created two ways, and neither of those are easy:

• By event, if Byz loses the 4th Crusade, the duchy of Cyprus will be taken from its current holder, turned into a kingdom, and given to a Crusader.
  • Yes, even if Cyprus is not in Byz! Oops! (EDIT: Yep, not fixed. .../common/cb_types/00_cb_types.txt , from line 5030.)
• By decision, if an independent Catholic duke owns the entire island. (And has his capital there?)
  • Taking this decision yourself will severely distort your run (conquering Cyprus and becoming independent while remaining duke-tier is non-trivial), but that can be fun in its own way.
  • I have never seen the AI take this decision, but it seems technically possible. As a non-Catholic Byz emperor, you could in theory give the whole island to a random Catholic with >1000 prestige, grant them independence and 100 gold, and wait.

I was eyeing Yemen for the Indian ocean but am not familiar with the lay of the land in India so might look there if I am going east to west as a horse lord.

Yemen is unsafe for a MR, because its traditional capital is inland (Sanaa): the AI will try to move there and, if they do, the MR will be destroyed.

Socotra is great as a duchy MR (one-county!), but only as long as your empire will never include the kingdom of Yemen. (Any king of Yemen will try to conquer Socotra, either vassalising the MR or destroying it. And Doges of Yemen will eventually destroy the MR - see above.)

I suppose it could work if you've got a few hundred years and do some careful de jure drift (to remove Sanaa) - but that can be said of almost any kingdom!

 

[noobermenschen]

Leon's traditional capital is inland, so that's not a good idea.



Yemen is unsafe for a MR, because its traditional capital is inland (Sanaa): the AI will try to move there and, if they do, the MR will be destroyed.

Socotra is great as a duchy MR (one-county!), but only as long as your empire will never include the kingdom of Yemen. (Any king of Yemen will try to conquer Socotra, either vassalising the MR or destroying it. And Doges of Yemen will eventually destroy the MR - see above.)

My bad, I was thinking of Galacia, not Leon. It seems I would need to do more research on this.

I would have thought Aden would be a natural capitol of Yemen, but looking deeper Sanaa makes more sense. Aden was always a trading entrepot, not a center of political power until the Europeans moved in. It was furthermore separated by religious differences (northern Yemen is largely Shiite, the south is mostly Sunni), with the tribes of the Hadramaut doing their own thing, paying homage only if someone was waving a big sword or a big purse.

What is the big deal with moving to the traditional capitol (aside from that tile usually having the largest number of build slots)?

 

[Whizzer]

What is the big deal with moving to the traditional capitol (aside from that tile usually having the largest number of build slots)?

You would have to ask Paradox about that. It's simply hardcoded behaviour.