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EU4 - Development Diary - 7th of July 2020

Good afternoon! I am once again eschewing the traditional Swedish summer vacation, this time because I’d prefer to wait until I can safely travel rather than taking a dull staycation in my Stockholm apartment. What that means for you lovely people is that you get summer content dev diaries! Let’s get right into it!

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Those of you who know me even slightly will be aware that I love all things South-East Asia (SEA). After 2.5 years on the project, I finally have the opportunity to create the SEA map rework of my dreams. Shown above is Mainland SEA. Burma/Myanmar is excluded from the map rework as I feel that the treatment I gave it during the development of Dharma still holds up. There will certainly be new content for nations in that region however, including what another dev fondly described as the “Shan mission stick” when we played MP this weekend.

The country setup has not been radically altered. The only new additions to the 1444 setup are the tribes inhabiting what is today the Central Highlands of Vietnam. I have, however, added many new provinces and increased the total development of the region significantly. According to the logs, the indo_china_region now contains 64 provinces with 542 total development. Note that these numbers, like all numbers presented in dev diaries, are not final. I’m especially satisfied with how Lan Na fits into its 5-province state, bordered on its west by impassable terrain. Speaking of impassable terrain, the Annamite Range now separates Vietnam from much of Laos, making Dai Viet a drastically more defensible nation.

A design goal for Mainland SEA nations in the 1.31 update is to emphasize vassal play and the development of capital super-cities. We’ll talk about various ways that this will be achieved another time, but one prerequisite for the goal is having nations to vassalize:


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Several releasable nations now have cores on territory held in 1444 by Lan Xang and Dai Viet. These nations actually already exist in the game files, but are very rarely seen in 1.30 due to their lack of cores. Unfortunately there aren’t really any sensible ways that I’ve found to divide Ayutthaya or Khmer, though in Ayutthaya’s case Sukhothai can still serve as a vassal to which you can feed your Thai provinces.


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I’ve also taken a look at culture groups in the region. Central Thai and Northern Thai are now simply “Thai”, which belongs to the Siamese culture group that it shares with Lao and Shan. Countries in this culture group are able to form Siam, though Ayutthaya can only do so via its new mission tree. The “Indochinese” culture group is admittedly fairly arbitrary, but does serve to encompass regions of “natural” Vietnamese expansion on their “nam tiến” (southward advance). Cham has been moved to this group to reflect that we no longer equate culture and language.


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Next week we’ll take a similar look at Maritime SEA - modern Indonesia and Malaysia. In terms of scripted content you can expect plenty of historical events, mission trees, disasters, government reforms, estate privileges, and more from the 1.31 update. We’ll get to these in later weeks, but for now that’s all I have to say. Until next time, have a good week!
 
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Would love to see some more dynamic province names for Thai cultured nations conquering further afield I.e India
Especially for Ayutthaya, would be cool for them to get as one of their final mission to own Ayodhya in India, which is their namesake. Doing this mission could perhaps give some sort of cool modifier which makes Hinduism/Sikhism "accepted religions" or at the very least increased tolerance of heathens, as well as the renaming of owned Indian cities along the Bay of Bengal.
 
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How about adding the ability to build the Kra Isthmus Canal? Even though it never happened historically, it could have been built with enough political will and money, just like the Panama Canal.

To be frank, I don't think any of the canals in the game could have been built in the timeframe in question; trying to build canals large enough to move large, ocean-going warships (50 ft beams, 20-30 ft drafts) is likely to require the development of steam shovels and railroads, which limits their construction to about 1840 at the earliest. Note that the Eider Canal (a precursor to the Kiel Canal which was built in the 1780s) had a maximum beam of 25 ft and a 9 ft draft, easily too small to fit a frigate or a three-decker.

According to Wikipedia, while the Thais did look at building a canal during this timeframe, the European engineers that looked at it all deemed it technologically unfeasible. It would be at least as challenging as the Panama Canal, which stymied de Lessep's attempt to build it in the 1880s (causing the biggest scandal in French history, until L'Affaire topped that shortly thereafter). Even when the US took over construction, it wasn't until Stevens threw out all the old equipment in 1905 and replaced it with modern heavy equipment that it actually made any serious headway.

As a side note, were the Panama Canal to be built much earlier than it historically was, it probably wouldn't be a Panamanian Canal but a Nicaraguan Canal, since dredging Lake Nicaragua to the desired depth would be far easier than doing the deep Culebra Cut.
 
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I look forward to it, though I don't know about wrecking that cultural area more as the culture group for thai is already so darn small compared to it's neighbors and with how insanely expensive it is to culture convert stuff.....just seems iffy.

I have always had a spot for Ayutthaya and Khmer, but Ayutthaya's ideas are so darn bad that it can't hold up in Multiplayer. So Khmer was the go to but it was a drastically harder start especially due to that entire region being Jungle it can make it difficult to keep up in tech.
 
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Nice! Cant wait to finally try out Ayutthaya and Khmer.

Also, I really hope you will change Empire of China mechanics and Ming sometime in the future, I just finished a Japan run where I took the Mandate of Heaven and oh boy, it really isnt fun at all
 
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Wow, wasn't expecting a new dev diary this fast!
Two questions that may or may not have answers yet: will Breton be moved into the gaelic culture group with Irish and Highlander, since they're (from my understanding) a bit closer to that than to french cultures? and with CKIII coming out this year, will all of the religious heresies from CKII be added to EU4 in the custom nation designer?
 
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Nice! Cant wait to finally try out Ayutthaya and Khmer.

Also, I really hope you will change Empire of China mechanics and Ming sometime in the future, I just finished a Japan run where I took the Mandate of Heaven and oh boy, it really isnt fun at all
Actually 1.29 really improved EoC, having high mandate gave you great bonuses just as having low mandate hurt you. Japan is one of those countries where I wouldn’t take the mandate, and would prefer destroying the EoC instead, but for countries like Manchu and Oirat, things are waaaay better now.

I am excited to see how the coming SEA patch will give flavor to the interaction between SEA and China
 
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There's no planned overhaul of Buddhism exactly, but there will be several new ways to have more control over your Karma.
Awwww man… I really think any SEA patch needs to at least make Buddhism unique enough to add as much immersion as the other Eastern religions. I made a suggestion for Theravada specifically, which I’ll link, but I think it’s too big for a (presumably) free patch

 
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Actually 1.29 really improved EoC, having high mandate gave you great bonuses just as having low mandate hurt you. Japan is one of those countries where I wouldn’t take the mandate, and would prefer destroying the EoC instead, but for countries like Manchu and Oirat, things are waaaay better now.

I am excited to see how the coming SEA patch will give flavor to the interaction between SEA and China
Thanks I didn't know that, I'm still quite new at the game and I didn't even know you could destroy the mandate haha, I still feel there is so much that could be done with eoc, feels like a lot of untapped potential
 
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Wow, wasn't expecting a new dev diary this fast!
Two questions that may or may not have answers yet: will Breton be moved into the gaelic culture group with Irish and Highlander, since they're (from my understanding) a bit closer to that than to french cultures?
Culture groups (for the most part) aren't going to be based on language going forward. This was eluded to in this dev diary as well with Champa being moved out of the Malay group.
 
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Nice changes. I guess this also puts to bed any remaining ideas about 1.30 being the final version of the game.
 
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What SEA nations currently have plans for new/updated Mission trees?
 
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I can't say I'm well versed on religion in Laos. What do you think needs to change?

Luang Prabang, Atepeu, Xekong, Luang Namtha and Luang Prabang should be animist and Luang Prabang should be called Muang Sua at start (Maybe the one next to Prabang that used to be part of it and the new one next to Vietnam. Usure since I can´t see their names or terrain descriptions)

To provide some background to my claim:

Lao society is very diverse and so often affiliate with broader groups of people who share the same geographic conditions as the other.
These divisions are Lao: Sung (Highland; Mountains), Loum (Lowland; Vallies) and Theung (Midland; Hills)

This often informed the religous tendancies of the different regions wether one was more Satsana Phi (Animist) or Buddhist with the Loum being mostly Buddhist and the Sung and Theung being mainly Animist. Of course there is syncretisism but there were enough differences for the monarchs to implement favorable policies for buddhists over animists.

Buddhism itself while it had been a precense since Fa Ngum the religion didn´t begin to pick up steam until King Viosun in the 1500s who lead something of a golden age followed by king Photisarath who went so far as to undermine brahminic and animist religions entierly (He might have also been the one to make buddhism a state religion).

Savanh Nakhone, Atepeu and Xekong in this case would be Theung (Also many Degar migrated in between the territories of Khmer, Tay Ngyuen and southern Laos) This is also noticeable on a linguistic map. Atepeu and Xekong was fairly isolated at the time while Savang Nikhone though it does contain areas that would have been populated by valley people the province terrain designation. Furthermore Luang Namtha is a mountain region that saw continous influx of migrants who had similar animist traditions.
Luang Phrabang was also until the 16th century one of the main seats of power for the animists in the region so much so that the relic "Phra Bang" was kept in Vientiane instead of the capital. It was under King X that this changed when they moved the relic and changed the name from Muang Sua into Luang Prabang.

I have produced futher suggestions here, they detail this issue futher along with many more things:

Link:

Link:
 
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The “Indochinese” culture group is admittedly fairly arbitrary, but does serve to encompass regions of “natural” Vietnamese expansion on their “nam tiến” (southward advance). Cham has been moved to this group to reflect that we no longer equate culture and language.

I'm very disappointed by this change, Mostly because the historical outcome was that the Viet "culture" would go on to assimilate/colonize the now former Cham regions and turn them culturally Vietnamese by the 19th century.

Any chance this could either be reversed or the Vietnamese at least have a mission to convert the provinces in question to Vietnamese? The Cham people were very much an oddity in the region owing to their Austronesian descent. Fiercely resisting the Thai and Chinese and especially the Khmer incursions for centuries before the Vietnamese succeeded where no others could
 
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