what is ppls issue? if you don't feel the pack is worth it and doesn't add anything- don't buy it (or buy it for like $3.5 in a few months on sale). no-one is forcing this product upon you, paradoxis clearly describing what is in it. raging over an immersion pack not being big enuff!? maybe you ppl need a break, take a a deep breath. do some real life activities.
Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century Coming December 11
- Thread starter HottestRod
- Start date
-
We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.
The fact that all attempts to defend the DLC are based on retarded arguments like "you are not forced to buy it" and not about its content means a lot.
I'll be the one explaining.
When a pack focusing on a region comes out, you can't expect any further modification related to this region any sooner, right ?
So if you care about Iberia, and Iberia might be THE region you can't really give no shit about in the timeframe, you legitimately can be frustrated of how bad it has been treated in a DLC focusing on it.
We are to a point where people who wanted some regions to be the next DLC's focus, like people supporting a DLC about Italy, are now praying not to be the next one, because of the poor quality provided by Paradox in this kind of DLC lately.
So no, it's not as simple as not buying it.
It's something long awaited by a lot of people that happens to be underwhelming.
I personally want Scandinavia to be the next focus.
I'll be the one explaining.
When a pack focusing on a region comes out, you can't expect any further modification related to this region any sooner, right ?
So if you care about Iberia, and Iberia might be THE region you can't really give no shit about in the timeframe, you legitimately can be frustrated of how bad it has been treated in a DLC focusing on it.
We are to a point where people who wanted some regions to be the next DLC's focus, like people supporting a DLC about Italy, are now praying not to be the next one, because of the poor quality provided by Paradox in this kind of DLC lately.
So no, it's not as simple as not buying it.
It's something long awaited by a lot of people that happens to be underwhelming.
I personally want Scandinavia to be the next focus.
Last edited:
If tomorrow Ford announced the new Mustang is going to be an electric minivan, I reckon Mustang fans would not only not buy it, but they would also let Ford know of their disappointment with the new product in hopes of the company understanding it's customer base and providing them with what they ask for.
Same thing here. We are disappointed with the product, and demand that it be improved so we can continue to offer our support for it. Because we *want* to support the company by purchasing it's products. *If they are up to snuff*.
In the end, companies must ensure their products please their customer base. We make Paradox no favors by silencing our criticism or lowering our standards.
I have purchased all the DLC of Europa Universalis IV. But with this I have a feeling that I never had with others. This DLC has little content. It's rushed and it's like a great missed opportunity because with Portugal or Spain you can do things or dynamics incredible.
Please, Paradox I request for a little loyalty and commitment. I've been playing with you since 2001.
Please, Paradox I request for a little loyalty and commitment. I've been playing with you since 2001.
Imagine being a spaniard.
And one who plays PDX games.
Historic focused games.
And in the ONLY timeframe your country was relevant in history...PDX releases ...this.
Yeaaahh this is just an Immersion Pack, but, for example, the UK is still relevant in world politics, Russia is still feared by eastern europeans, India will be a world power and now is a rising star, China will be always be one of the most interesting countries and are currently expanding their trade domination, most of these countries are relevant in CK2, in EU4, in Vicky 2 and in HOI 4. Spain is only relevant in EU4 and in our current times is only famous because of the bad things that have happened in their country. (in vicky 2 you play a decadent spain, and in HOI 4, you play an irrelevant one that is fun only because of the civil war)
So the spanish players wanted more of the only timeframe they were great, and i understand that, because the Tercios were freaking amazing, and the conquistadores forged one of the biggest empires ever known to history.
I wouldn't say Spain was irrelevant in the other time frames, but definitely EU4 era was the Golden Age of Spain
You don't need to be iberian to feel frustrated.
A lot of people complaining are not.
I'm not.
These countries basically made the world we know today. Anyone having interest in History would like these countries to be well done when an Immersion pack comes out.
And Spain is relevant in CK2 too, except of course if you stick to the country itself, but that wouldn't make sense.
Last edited:
You can believe whatever you want. I believe in real history.
If you could not defeat the Portuguese in battles like Aljubarrota (6.500 men vs more than 30.000 men) with extreme numerical advantages or even later (and more closer to your "Military height", like in the Battle of Lines of Elvas), I doubt you would have managed to do it in another scenario. Even much later when Portugal was past it's prime, we still defeated Spain with barely any loss to our side, in the Fantastic war (it is called Fantastic war for a reason, after all).
The war where Portugal "got PU'ed", like Agoria said, was the only real conflict Spain actually won, but that one wasn't against Portugal but against pretenders which had only partial support of the country. A good portion fought on the side of Spain against these Portuguese pretenders, as I pointed out. Pratically the only reason why Spain won, because if the Portuguese pretender had full support he would have won. Even if he had lost the war on the continent, Spain would never be able to take Azores if the Portuguese Pretender had the entire Portuguese fleet at his disposal. And if he had remained undefeated in the Azores, all the colonies would continue under his control and Spain wouldn't be able to claim the crown.
I did not say Spain didn't deserve a naval bonus. Spain does deserve a bonus. Boarding was not a very modern way of fighting at seas but Spain excelled on it.
What I said, is that I didn't understand why Spain receives 2 boosts (artillery + ship bonus), when Portugal receives none since Portugal was actually superior by far to Spain in naval terms. The strongest ships Spain actually had, and their flagships, were Portuguese. Just that fact speaks by itself.
I never said that the entire Spanish navy was Portuguese. I said that the strongest ships on the Spanish navy, were Portuguese. And that in the battles they were present, they did far better than any Spanish ship. Most Spanish ships were not built for Oceanic warfare (around 1580 and before). You just need to read history books or read something about it on the internet. It's not hard. Even Wikipedia speaks about these facts. Facts, not my nationalism speaking. If I wanted to speak about nationalism I wouldn't be in here and certainly not with someone from Spain. I pointed several links to Wikipedia for instance so if you refuse to face those facts, it's your problem, just please do not accuse me of being nationalist and speaking non-sense.
I actually got quite a bit of history from this thread. I always thought Portugal was a peaceful-traders-horrible-at-warfare nation too.
Its normal, Portugal has absolutely no international exposure whatsoever.
When was the last time you ever watched a film about Medieval Portugal? Or even Spain? I personally never had, despite Iberia having probably one of the most interesting medieval histories of Europe, with constant fighting against Muslims and within the Catholics kingdoms, huge battles, battles that make Agincourt look unimpressive, new kingdoms emerging, and old ones uniting all the time in a complex court intrigues that looks straight out of Game of Thrones. It has heroes, legends, great kings, petty kings, a beautiful and diverse landscape from the lush forests of Galicia and snowy mountains of Asturias to the dry plains on Andalusia and the marshes of the Tagus and Vouga. Everything for a good story, yet it gets completely neglected, just like they are getting in this DLC.
Its simply a wasted opportunity.
At least im happy someone learned something historical from this ahistorical DLC.
Last edited:
So, after thinking on it, there is only one reason that I can think of them making, and releasing, a brand new DLC, mere months after the Poland Update, and that is because of the recent Pagan Fury update. Let's not lie about this, with the ability to reform the Hellenic faith, they likely will be adding in an ability to play as a Hellenic nation in EU4, just like they did with the Norse faith, shortly after the release of the Vikings DLC. Also after the release of Horse Lords, there was a major update on the way the Tengri faith worked and how Hordes were managed. If that is the real reason they are releasing this DLC with some cool stuff, but a bunch of fluff, I would be okay with it, because I am tired of having to play the Hellenic faith with mods, plus it does need a proper face lift anyway.
Will there be new achievements for this DLC? If not, I don't think I'm gonna buy it. I play for achievement hunting and this DLC seems to lack a lot of things. If this lack includes achievements, it's just abysmal.
I would love to be able to play an hellenic nation in eu4 though.
Oh my, another person who knows about the defeat of the English Armada! Impressive!
Most of written, easy to access history overlooks the counter-Spanish offensive! Sir Francis Drake led the English Armada, too. With this Spanish victory, the English/Dutch weren't able to claim naval dominance.
Sometimes I dream that Jake goes to see his boss and tells him "Boss, we need to take some time with the team, at least a few months, to think in depth of mechanics and brew something that will address AI issues, also we need to revamp some mechanic from scratch.", and then his boss answers: "Jake, are you sure about that? Look at this post on the forum…"
"… so you see, they'll buy whatever garbage you put in there so long as it gives a specific achievement."
I'm not saying this DLC is hot garbage (I'll stick to "respectfully disagree"), but your attitude promotes the poor treatment this game has been given lately. At least don't publicise it.
"… so you see, they'll buy whatever garbage you put in there so long as it gives a specific achievement."
I'm not saying this DLC is hot garbage (I'll stick to "respectfully disagree"), but your attitude promotes the poor treatment this game has been given lately. At least don't publicise it.
If I may interrupt the debate here, has this been released to any streamers? I checked Quill18, Arumba, Adrian and some others and no one seems to have it yet. I assume that since it's dropping soon, they would have released it to streamers.
Any idea when this might happen? I'd really like to see what it looks like before I buy it.
Any idea when this might happen? I'd really like to see what it looks like before I buy it.
I do not agree, I hope that people are not angry about these issues, although unfortunately some of that is why.
I myself asked for many things that were detrimental to Spain: new disasters, not gold mine, complicated terrain ...
I'm semi angry (I'm not one of the hardest haters) because I see that it could have given more Spanish flavor, more missions, events, characters ...
And also his theory is not true, in imperator the Iberian peninsula must be rich, the Carthaginian wars were for iberia, there were emperors born here ...
And in CKII, I have not played, but at least the Spain of Al Andalus, was very developed and was very rich.
Look at the population and wealth of Spain in the year 1 and 1000, and compare with France or Germany.
I do not agree, I hope that people are not angry about these issues, although unfortunately some of that is why.
I myself asked for many things that were detrimental to Spain: new disasters, not gold mine, complicated terrain ...
I'm semi angry (I'm not one of the hardest haters) because I see that it could have given more Spanish flavor, more missions, events, characters ...
And also his theory is not true, in imperator the Iberian peninsula must be rich, the Carthaginian wars were for iberia, there were emperors born here ...
And in CKII, I have not played, but at least the Spain of Al Andalus, was very developed and was very rich.
Look at the population and wealth of Spain in the year 1 and 1000, and compare with France or Germany.
Completely agreed. EU4 is the Golden Age of Spain, indeed, but it does not mean Spain wasn't relevant in the other games. Even in Victoria II Spain (despite being a period of decline) still had some importance, specially due to its colonies and in HO4 the Civil War still makes it relevant.
Well that Spain was irrelevant in all periods after its golden era is just not true.
The golden era of Spain was from 1492 (conquest of Granada and discovery of America) to 1643 (battle of rocroi and the end of the military hegemony). During these 150 years, Spain lost no land battle despite being at war constantly with almost everyone and everywhere (take that for achievement). Its naval force was feared and respected.
After this period, I like to think of Spain as a giant-slayer dwarf:
In 1700, Spain was so relevant that its succession war to the throne caused the first great war of Europe (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_of_the_Spanish_Succession) with the intervention of Portugal, France, Austria, HRE, Hungary, Britain, Dutch Republic, Savoy, Prusia, Baviera, Cologne, Liege etc.
In 1775, Without Spain intervention, the USA would have probably lost its independence war. Spain invaded from Louisiana and overran the British Caribbean.
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spain_and_the_American_Revolutionary_War).
in 1808, Spain was the first country to defeat a Napoleonic army which until then were thought to be invincible. Meanwhile other actors -such as Prussia and Austria- were defeated in a matter of days/months. Moreover, Spain was a very important factor for the fall of Napoleon. The spanish ulcer -as he called the Spanish war- drained energy, men, equipment and funds from many other war scenarios which ultimately sealed his peril.
Not only that, the Spanish army despite suffering many defeats did not stop fighting and regrouping again, and again, and again, and again and again until the French armies were expelled from Iberia. Even the civilians rose to arms, fought, and harassed the French. This did not happen in other "important" actors of the time.
in 1936-1939, Spain was the first country ever to defeat a communist regime. Once defeated, Franco send the Spanish Blue division to fight against communism as a big F*CK you MR. Stalin! Of the 45000 men of the division, 22000 died in action and managed to neutralize 50000 soviets. Even Hitler considered the division as equals to the best German troops, and Spain as the only tough latins (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Division).
Other examples can follow if you wish.
So please, don’t tell me Spain was not relevant after 1650.
Besides, England knows better (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_of_Jenkins'_Ear).
Changing the topic, I once wrote some ideas to improve the gameplay of Castille/Spain for EU4 in the MEIOU forum. Reading about upcoming expansion, I really do think these may come handy, especially for a country as important as Spain for that specific timeframe.
The Kingdom of Granada was able to coexist 280 years (1212 Navas de Tolosa -1492 Fall of Granada) with Castile mainly for 3 reasons:
a) Very hard terrain to conquest.
With Sierra Nevada on its north-eastern side and Sierra Morena on the west, with a light and fast semi-guerrilla terrain-expert defensive-trained army supported by a defensive network of military structures built during the last 500 years of presence and supported by its Muslim brothers made the conquest extremely difficult.
It took 10 years for the combined armies of Castile and Aragon(1482 to 1492) to be able to finally conquer Granada, and only during the granadan civil war and diplomatic offensive carried out by the Christian kings. Just to get in context, Granada was fighting against basically the same army that 3 years later started mopping the Italian floor with French soldiers and didn’t stop fighting and winning battles worldwide for 150 years.
b) Castilian instability.
Up until de ascension of Isabelle I, Castile was ruled by a succession of inept kings (For example his brother Henry III or his father Henry IV) maintained in power by a strong nobility. When kings weren’t as docile as needed, Civil war waged all over Castile. From 1282 to 1479 Castile suffered 5 civil wars.
c) Granada’s relative prosperity, stability and diplomatic movements.
Given their southern Muslim neighbors open to trade, their fairly rich terrain for agriculture and a 25% Slave Christian workforce population, Granada was able to keep its population prosperous and willing to fight for their independence. Still, ever since the foundation of the Nazari Kingdom, Granada had payed and acted as a vassal state of Castile (Jaen Pact), avoiding its extinction (except in very concrete moments).
Historians are usually more or less confident that Granada was doomed ever since the Battle of Navas de Tolosa (1212) and that its conquest could have been achieved even sooner if Castile could have maintained a long attrition war, which she couldn’t up until the last few lustrums.
So, relative to the game:
I’ve been playing Paradox’s games for a long time and I’ve never really thought that they’ve focused much on Iberian aspect of the game (being them the ones that opened the colonialism of the world and dominated Europe for 100 years of the game time span).
Some suggestions are:
-Make Granada very difficult to conquer (maybe by a very high attrition province modifier, random events for 2000 armies to appear onto the sieging Castilians etc, Make it richer so she can bribe Castile to peace and to maintain it a vassal (Avoiding being annexed))
-Make Castile unstable enough to be unable to focus in any other thing that are not noble revolts, crown claims and inept titular kings until the arrival of Isabella.
IMO Isabela is the main key of almost everything about Iberia.
She unified Spain by marrying Ferdinand II of Aragon and by fighting and winning Portuguese, French and Castilian nobles in the civil war.
She was the one that invested on Colombus and basically discovered the new world (by selling her own jewelry), starting the first trans-oceanic empire.
She promoted the war against Granada and won in.
She conquered the kingdom of Naples with the help of Aragon and she got involved in the Navarran civil war.
She made the first laws to protect the native Americans Indians in colonial spain, which no other country ever did up until a century ago.
She employed the best in the court, helping to the advancement of areas such as military tactics (The Tercios were created by Gonzalo Fernandez de Cordova, General under her orders)
She married her daughters to several future kings which finally rendered also a huge European empire (Cataline with Arthur, heir to England and afterwards to Henry VIII, King of England – helping to the future ascension of Phillip II of Spain as king of England 1554, Juana to Phillip son of the Emperor Maximillian of Austria making Isabella grandson Charles I of Spain and V of Germany heir and then ruler of Austria, HRE, the lowlands, Spain, parts of Italy and France, and finally the marriage of Maria with Manuel of Portugal, which enabled Phillip II become also kings of Portugal.
So please, give Isabella some love
BTW, good luck, youll need it
Last edited: