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HOI4 Dev Diary - 1.5.2 Update #1

Hi everyone! I hope you are enjoying Waking the Tiger :) With the 1.5.1 patch released last week the team has now started on 1.5.2. Today won't really be a big diary, but I figured we could highlight some of the changes every week as they are done rather than have a diary break while the patch work is ongoing. The idea is that 1.5.2 will be available as an opt-in beta on Friday (barring QA veto), but we will be rolling out updates to it until its ready for release. Real release is at least 2 weeks away.

Making organizing commanders easier
People seem to really like our fantastic future tech dubbed “Drag-and-drop” (pending trademark registry), so based on community feedback we have decided to implement this in more places. You can now reorganize your armies and army groups by simple dragging them around (we are working on a similar thing for the theater overview to allow it there also).

dragdropcommanders.gif



XP gain on commanders and divisions
There have been a lot of conflicting feedback on how fast your commanders level up and gain traits. Some say it’s much too fast and some say its prohibitively slow. We did a quick fix for 1.5.1 to try and smooth out the progression curve, but realized we really needed to do something more radical. The issue is that its very playstyle dependent since XP is rewarded for every hour in combat. This essentially means that if you play well, pull off encirclements, use concentration of force or overrun the enemy you get very little XP compared to someone who is just throwing bodies at the enemy to slowly wear them down. To deal with this we are changing how you gain XP:
  • Overruns (blocking retreating enemy paths) and shattered divisions (enemy that cannot escape) gives you a flat xp reward per unit that is destroyed.
  • The rate of XP gain per hour is reduced over time with max penalty at 1 month long battle (-90%)
  • The more damage you do relative to the enemy the better XP reward you get to compensate for those combats being relatively short (up to a 4x difference)
Hopefully these changes should help balance the radical differences between long and short battles and reward players who play smart while not negatively impacting the brute force method too much. We’ll be relying on feedback on how this feels during the open beta process to see how it pans out.


Multiplayer desyncs
Looking at statistics from our backend 1.5.1 seems to have improved things and it’s now back to the same level as before Tiger was released. However we still see reports, so we have developed some new tools to help us as well as potentially fixed more cases. We are hopeful about improvements here as well for 1.5.2. Again, we’ll be relying on feedback in the open beta later for this as well.


Doctrine cost changes
With the infamous doctrine-swapping-for-free exploit gone we felt that the cost of switching was perhaps a bit too high now, scaring people from changing up things. To make that a fairer choice starting level of land doctrines now cost half of what they used to (so in line with other techs), making a switch still a serious tradeoff you need to think of, but not as delaying is it is now. The reason it’s not just free is at the heart of HOI4. You step into the shoes of the nation at a historical point in time, so you should need to deal with their current situation. Switching army wide doctrine is one of those things, just like division templates or low war support or stability.


Polish and German border changes
Though some effort was made to adjust states to make german historical WW1 borders possible, as this thread shows, things were still not completely up to scratch. I (Bratyn) decided to put in some of my personal development time to brush up on my map-painting skillz and improve upon what we had already done.

devdiary polish german border changes.png


1. The two Polish provinces slightly south-east of Danzig, 6347 and 6321, which previously formed a weird protrusion into Prussia, have now been reshaped with a more east-west horizontal border, with the northern province (6347) being added to the Danzig state. Once Danzig is taken by Germany, this now creates proper borders for Eastern Prussia.
2. I made a minor adjustment to ‘flatten’ the border in the little bit jutting out around Strzelno (I felt it was too pronounced).
3. The two Polish provinces on the tip of Silesia, 506 and 6464, have been reduced in size and remodeled, with the freed-up space going to the provinces around them, as well as a new province (13205) created for the Krakow state. A new state has been created (“Voivodeship Silesia”), to which provinces 506 and 6464 have been added, making it possible to transfer this state via events to Germany, much in the same way as is already done with Poznan and Danzig.
4. While I was at it, I figured I’d fix a personal pet peeve, as well. I reassigned provinces to states all over Eastern Germany, ensuring that the borders between these states now follow the Oder river. I also redrew the borders of the provinces (3514, 3572, 6595, 9535, 11415, and 11517) to follow the Neisse river (which is not shown on the HOI4 map), as well as those of province 6282 (Stettin). This now makes it possible to recreate proper modern-day eastern German borders, for those of us who enjoy that kind of thing.

devdiary german oder-neisse line.png


All of this also involved relocating some industry, air bases, and population from certain states to others, but this should not have much effect on gameplay. Unfortunately, the end result does mean that savegames will have… An unfortunate gap in the map where Voivodeship Silesia is located. Starting a new game when signing up to the Beta or when switching to the patch is recommended, as not doing so may result in some weird stuff (such as units present in those provinces beforehand being perpetually stuck there). This is also the reason why we tend to be conservative with making map-changes, and this is unfortunately unlikely to change.

Glorious end result:

devdiary german empire borders final.png



Hats! The people want Hats!
In our ongoing efforts to increase the number of great hats in the game, we have decided to add Paul von Lettow Vorbeck to the German lineup. Best known for his campaign in German East Africa during the Great War, von Lettow-Vorbeck is available for recruitment through a decision after the Kaiser has returned. Given the terrain he fought in during the war, we decided to give him the Jungle Rat trait as well as a pretty good logistics score.

Captureplv.JPG


There are of course also a slew of smaller change and fixes we have had time to do, but we’ll leave that for the eventual changelog. If your pet peeve was not mentioned check out last weeks diary covering the main areas we will be working on as this diary was to highlight stuff we had already done.

Next week we will have another update as well as showing off a really really cool thing for modders we have been working with on the side. Stay tuned!
 
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Drag and drop theaters +1
Fixing xp gains +2
Adding Paul v Lettow-Vorbeck +10, a legend few now know.
 
Any changes coming for 'Pax Americana' and the ahistorically boring US interventions?
 
No Eupen-Malmedy? REEEEEEEEE

For real though, it's nice to see that the German-Polish border change recommendations were put into effect so quickly. Since you already redrew the map, can I recommend splitting off that ugly "spike" on the state of Serbia, so that pre-Trianon Hungary borders can be restored?

Great diary! Also, if you guys are changing states in the game maybe you should remodel some in Yugoslavia so we can have proper WW1 austro-hungarian borders (I.E. the little tumor that sticks out of the state of Serbia).

You mean like this? ;) It is already done.

devdiary austrohungary border change.png


Unfortunately there is no real end to how many changes we could make to the map, and we have to draw the line somewhere if we are to have time for other development. Danzig being its own separate state is unfortunately a bit more work than switching the 5 provinces above from Serbia to Vojvodina, and not within the scope of changes we're able to make right now (remember: the stuff I did for Germany was 'on my own time'). Besides, gotta leave something for the mods ;)
 
This is already fixed. As Podcat said; we're not mentioning every single bugfix we have done in this dev diary.
hey you're doing the map stuff right?

this is alsace now: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alsace

this is lorraine now: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lorraine

this is alsace-lorraine c1918: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alsace-Lorraine

note that it is identical to the state of alsace in hoi4

idk what maps you guys were referencing when doing france, but alsace should be called alsace-lorraine and lorraine should represent this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franche-Comté

i mean you don't even have to change any map stuff, just the names, and germany should only get claims/cores on alsace-lorraine (the border state), not the state that is currently lorraine -- germany never controlled that far south
 
Oooh ui work, love the drag and drop magic.

Could you make it so that we can collapse the theatre lists to reduce screen clutter?

Also could we have some way of hiding old division templates in the recruitment screen so that is easier to navigate but without losing the xp invested in creating the templates?

Final question is regarding xp for leaders. I like the changes but I wonder if you could have xp gain tied to different actions based on the doctrine tree you have? So of mass assault long grinding battles are good for you but if you've gone mobile then overruns count for more etc etc.

Keep up the good work.
 
hey you're doing the map stuff right?

this is alsace now: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alsace

this is lorraine now: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lorraine

this is alsace-lorraine c1918: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alsace-Lorraine

note that it is identical to the state of alsace in hoi4

idk what maps you guys were referencing when doing france, but alsace should be called alsace-lorraine and lorraine should represent this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franche-Comté

i mean you don't even have to change any map stuff, just the names, and germany should only get claims/cores on alsace-lorraine (the border state), not the state that is currently lorraine -- germany never controlled that far south

Unfortunately there is no real end to how many changes we could make to the map, and we have to draw the line somewhere if we are to have time for other development.

I'll put an end here to requests for further map changes, or I will never have a day off in my life. Not saying more edits won't happen in the future, but I have to stem the inevitable flood of requests before it gets too much :p
 
I'll put an end here to requests for further map changes, or I will never have a day off in my life. Not saying more edits won't happen in the future, but I have to stem the flood of requests before it gets too much :p
fyi it is literally just a localization change in two states; you can use wikipedia to find the correct names in each language, so it's really not much work at all, but yeah i get you have to draw a line somewhere, and thx for the other changes
 
At some point could you take another look at the Sudetenland? Germany's borders make no sense at all if it's blocked from Anschluss (eg by Hungary) but then takes the Sudetenland. Either the Sudetenland should be split into two, or the focus to seize it should be unavailable if Anschluss is bypassed.
 
XP gain on commanders and divisions
There have been a lot of conflicting feedback on how fast your commanders level up and gain traits. Some say it’s much too fast and some say its prohibitively slow. We did a quick fix for 1.5.1 to try and smooth out the progression curve, but realized we really needed to do something more radical. The issue is that its very playstyle dependent since XP is rewarded for every hour in combat. This essentially means that if you play well, pull off encirclements, use concentration of force or overrun the enemy you get very little XP compared to someone who is just throwing bodies at the enemy to slowly wear them down. To deal with this we are changing how you gain XP:
  • Overruns (blocking retreating enemy paths) and shattered divisions (enemy that cannot escape) gives you a flat xp reward per unit that is destroyed.
  • The rate of XP gain per hour is reduced over time with max penalty at 1 month long battle (-90%)
  • The more damage you do relative to the enemy the better XP reward you get to compensate for those combats being relatively short (up to a 4x difference)
Hopefully these changes should help balance the radical differences between long and short battles and reward players who play smart while not negatively impacting the brute force method too much. We’ll be relying on feedback on how this feels during the open beta process to see how it pans out.

Headline mentions division but the actual text talks about commanders leveling up, is there something changed also with the division XP gain?
 
You mean like this? ;) It is already done.

index.php


Unfortunately there is no real end to how many changes we could make to the map, and we have to draw the line somewhere if we are to have time for other development.

Yeah, but now you can`t represent historical occupation pattern in balkans... :p
 
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XP gain on commanders and divisions
Do this Changes apply to division experience as well. I have found that divisions gain experience really slowly even with field hospitals. I did the math and you need to fight something like 100 Days, 24 hours a day to reach sesoned from regular and that don't consider casulties.

Currently you need to grind against low attack enemies to get good divisions which don't make much sense.
 
You mean like this? ;) It is already done.

View attachment 349336

Unfortunately there is no real end to how many changes we could make to the map, and we have to draw the line somewhere if we are to have time for other development. Danzig being its own separate state is unfortunately a bit more work than switching the 5 provinces above from Serbia to Vojvodina, and not within the scope of changes we're able to make right now (remember: the stuff I did for Germany was 'on my own time'). Besides, gotta leave something for the mods ;)
800px-Axis_occupation_of_Yugoslavia_1941-43.png

I recommend splitting Vojvodina into 3 states
Srem(the part that NDH owns)
Banat(the part under German control)
Bačka(the part under Hungarian control)
It will represent the situation there most accurately.
Although, let Hungary be able to take Srem and Banat via its focus tree, for example when it demands Vojvodina. This is just for the historically accurate borders.

Complaints aside, Thank god that god-forsaken bulge is gone :D
 
  • The more damage you do relative to the enemy the better XP reward you get to compensate for those combats being relatively short (up to a 4x difference)
Have you considered scaling overall experience by total damage dealt in the combat? That way modifiers that slow down the combat will also slow down the experience gain. Higher tech armies and armies with more bonuses will also earn more experience, but I think that is reasonable.
 
Danzig being its own separate state is unfortunately a bit more work than switching the 5 provinces above from Serbia to Vojvodina, and not within the scope of changes we're able to make right now (remember: the stuff I did for Germany was 'on my own time').
Crushing my Dreams Visualized in One Sentence.
 
You mean like this? ;) It is already done.

View attachment 349336

Unfortunately there is no real end to how many changes we could make to the map, and we have to draw the line somewhere if we are to have time for other development. Danzig being its own separate state is unfortunately a bit more work than switching the 5 provinces above from Serbia to Vojvodina, and not within the scope of changes we're able to make right now (remember: the stuff I did for Germany was 'on my own time'). Besides, gotta leave something for the mods ;)

Well done job - this also shows the huge impact on game balance, and the (rightfull) need for the mapmakers @Bratyn and paradox to carefully weighting options when drawing a border/province

Example the above Vojvodina:
-1918 - AH - which means above solution is spot on in case of alternative options.
1918-1941 - YUG - which also means it is spot on
*1941-1945: HUN, BUT the southwestern most province was part of NDH, while the eastern half was under German administration
1945- YUG (historical) same as 1918-1941, fits the narrative nicely

ahistorical
AH: Fine
HUN: See* - but in theory there is a significant chance they would get it the whole thing - but NDH would feel shortchanged.
As it was mentioned, creating a whole new province is a significant load, and would also potentially alter game balance due to extra slots.
So I assume splitting the province is not going to happen - but it now is correct in 3 out of 4 plausible scenarios - but in the old setup it more was more correctly showing actual historical scenarios for HUN & YUG

So we get a correct ahistorical view for incorrect historical view versus earlier vice versa - due to community feedback, and paradox (rightfully) can only deploy x amount of resources to fix y "issues". Personally my opinion is as simulator the old province layout was more representative for the actual development in WW2 - but it has to be weighted against the community wish to go A-H for sandbox reasons.

So what if we reassign the southwestern corner of Vojvodina to NDH - well that would be more historical correct in all cases of pre/post-1945/AH/HUN/YUG/Kingdom of Slovens and Croats (before they joined with Serbia) (and if f.eks you would create the CIS/TRANSleithia + the proposed south slav entity by Emporer Karl in a proper AH focus tree. But then the problem is: if we create SFR Croatia, which is better represented by the new Vojvodina set-up by Bratyn. In the perfect world that province should be it's own state. But that would be resources wastefully spent in order to priotize this compared to other tasks.
And then we also have to take into account the northwesternmost province which would also be a natural part of SFR Croatia but not NDH Croatia. No wonder this is a powderkeg.

A potential solution, which I though suspect would be very difficult to maintain - was that a Historical game loaded with one set of states, while an Ahistorical loaded with a different set. (Historical = old vojvodina - Ahistorical = new vojvodina)

This is just to show how complex it can be in order to make everybody happy and still weight between historical/wrong/plausible borders with the amount of resources available and making everyone happy. :)

The conclusion: before you aim the guns at the mapmakers - think about the enormous task work if we should create small 1-province states all over the worlds to cater for everything.
 
I also have to ask: Does the new state get any resources? Majority of general historic area of Upper Silesia's industrial capacity was located there.

This is represented; the state has an equal number of available building slots as Oberschlesien, but I moved one CIV from Krakow into Voivodeship Silesia. I believe the region contained 80% of the heavy industry of Upper Silesia, so this should be more or less appropriate, relative to Oberschlesien. If someone makes a good argument, I could see a potential case for cannibalising Krakow for more industry, in favour of Polish Silesia.
 
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