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Stellaris Dev Diary #215 - Gameplay themes & Balancing considerations

Hello everyone!

First I want to thank you for the overwhelming support that you’ve shown us with announcing the Custodians initiative. It’s been really fun and motivating to see so many positive responses, and for that we’re truly thankful. At the same time, I must admit that it is also a bit scary in the sense that we shouldn’t have the expectation that this will suddenly resolve any issues you might have with the game, or that we’ll be able to deliver large amounts of significant changes with every update. Let’s appreciate this opportunity and make the best of it :)

Species Pack Gameplay Themes
Last week we already talked about what the Lem Update (honoring the author Stanislaw Lem) would focus on, but I’d also like to go into more detail regarding some things.

We mentioned that we would be adding gameplay to the Humanoids Species Pack and the Plantoids Species Pack, and although I won’t talk about the exact details yet, I do want to talk a little about how we approached it, and the themes we chose.

Plantoids was a bit easier, because there are some obvious fantasies. Going around the themes of growth and plants we’re adding some new traits, civics and origin. We felt like it made sense to open up these gameplay additions to both Plantoid portraits as well as for Fungoids.

Humanoids was a bit trickier, because there are no direct fantasies that apply to them in general, so we instead chose to focus on fantasies that align with things like dwarves, elves, orcs or humans. The Civic we showcased last week was an example of how we made something inspired by a traditionally dwarven fantasy.

Let us know about any ideas or thoughts you have regarding those :)

We will be talking more about these in much greater detail later, but that may possibly be in August.

Game Balance
We’re going to take a look at reworking some of the major outstanding balance issues that we’re having.

One example that I want to talk about is the issue with Research Booming, where power players can essentially outpace other empires due to focusing a lot on research. What enables this is usually Districts that provide Researcher Jobs, which is relatively easy to gain access to early on through Origins such as Shattered Ring or Void Dwellers (the latter not being nearly as strong).

For Shattered Ring we are looking into changing the start from a pure “end-game” Ring World, to be more of an actual “Shattered Ring” that you need to repair before you gain access to the powerful Districts of the Ring World. Putting additional emphasis on the fantasy of restoring this ancient megastructure to its former glory can be a fun addition to the Origin itself. Although we haven’t decided exactly what we’re doing, changing the start to be a Shattered Ring that you can restore with the Mega-Engineering technology is a likely route.

Unity & Empire Sprawl
Beyond Lem, we are also going to take a look at Empire Sprawl and Unity. The design for Admin Capacity was never really something that I felt worked out, and we never finished the design that was intended for it. Continuing to use Admin Cap as a mechanic also feels a bit like a dead end due to multiple reasons (ranging from design to technical), so we’re instead going to look into another solution.

I have a design for doubling down on using Unity as the resource for internal management, removing Admin Cap entirely, and to make Empire Sprawl something that you can never mitigate anymore. More sprawling empires will always suffer harsher penalties from Empire Sprawl, and we’ll instead focus on how Unity can be used internally to mitigate some of those penalties. Examples could be Edicts that have a Unity Upkeep Cost, and perhaps reduce the Research Cost Penalty induced by Empire Sprawl. Angry Pops could potentially also have a Unity Upkeep Cost, to represent the drain on your society.

Note that these ideas are very much in their infancy and very prone to change. We will probably start talking a bit more about that once Lem has been released, but I wanted to share some thoughts with you so that we could gather some initial feedback.

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That’s all for this week folks! We’re in the middle of reviewing our dev diary schedule, so we’re hoping to be back with 2 more dev diaries before we take a summer break. We’ll keep you in the loop as we go.
 
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I hope, however, that you'll keep bureaucrats around for generating unity. It would be a great shame to lose the idea of a dystopian hell in which whole planets are dedicated to nothing but bureaucracy!
Oh yes! If its a worker that goes, its the Culture Worker since its so generic. Bureaucrats would be the Unity producing job. That would mean shifting around some job-swaps (like managers for megacorps) to be swaps of the bureaucrat instead.

We absolutely need to maintain the idea of Trantor.
 
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I have a design for doubling down on using Unity as the resource for internal management, removing Admin Cap entirely, and to make Empire Sprawl something that you can never mitigate anymore. More sprawling empires will always suffer harsher penalties from Empire Sprawl, and we’ll instead focus on how Unity can be used internally to mitigate some of those penalties. Examples could be Edicts that have a Unity Upkeep Cost, and perhaps reduce the Research Cost Penalty induced by Empire Sprawl. Angry Pops could potentially also have a Unity Upkeep Cost, to represent the drain on your society.

I hope, however, that you'll keep bureaucrats around for generating unity. It would be a great shame to lose the idea of a dystopian hell in which whole planets are dedicated to nothing but bureaucracy!
 
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I consider at this state the AI is so significantly underwhelming that it should be the focus of the entire Quality Team until it's being coded, then as soon as that's done.

This is an incredibly bad idea for multiple reasons, firstly not all professions have an impact on the AI, secondly adding more programmers doesn't mean a solution will be made faster (as the saying goes nine women can't make a baby in one month).
 
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Very cool! I'm very very excited to see what you all come up with!


re:
I have a design for doubling down on using Unity as the resource for internal management, removing Admin Cap entirely, and to make Empire Sprawl something that you can never mitigate anymore. More sprawling empires will always suffer harsher penalties from Empire Sprawl, and we’ll instead focus on how Unity can be used internally to mitigate some of those penalties. Examples could be Edicts that have a Unity Upkeep Cost, and perhaps reduce the Research Cost Penalty induced by Empire Sprawl. Angry Pops could potentially also have a Unity Upkeep Cost, to represent the drain on your society.
Thought: if unity is going to play a bigger role, integrate it with factions as well? Pops from happy factions generate more unity, and pops from unhappy factions less. This could then lead into spy operations to "poke the beehive" of unhappy factions in other empires and make them even more unhappy, which then leads to less unity which then leads to unstable empires duo to unity shortages.
The thought I have with this is, if your unhappy factions are big, and other empires actively rile them up with spy operations you could see rebellions (which almost never happen in todays game).
 
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honestly, I prefer admin cap, but there should be more penalties for going over, like less governing ethics attraction.
 
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All sounds good :) the idea of expanding on the space fantasy humanoids seems sensible as humans are typically the neutral every-man in most sci-fi and fantasy.

Running with the elves I really hope some of the ornate ship designs we saw ahead of nemesis could be dusted off one day. They would really fit a decadent space elf theme.
 
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I'm very excited to hear more about this:
I have a design for doubling down on using Unity as the resource for internal management, removing Admin Cap entirely, and to make Empire Sprawl something that you can never mitigate anymore. More sprawling empires will always suffer harsher penalties from Empire Sprawl, and we’ll instead focus on how Unity can be used internally to mitigate some of those penalties. Examples could be Edicts that have a Unity Upkeep Cost, and perhaps reduce the Research Cost Penalty induced by Empire Sprawl. Angry Pops could potentially also have a Unity Upkeep Cost, to represent the drain on your society.

Overall, I haven't been this hopeful about the future of the game in a while. Thanks for all the hard work and enjoy the summer break!
 
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Oh yes! If its a worker that goes, its the Culture Worker since its so generic. Bureaucrats would be the Unity producing job. That would mean shifting around some job-swaps (like managers for megacorps) to be swaps of the bureaucrat instead.

We absolutely need to maintain the idea of Trantor.
Speaking of Trantor, how about you add a Bureaucrat district to Ecumenopoli? It'd be a massive win from both the flavor and gameplay sides of things, and Ecu's currently are "short" a district.

Personally I'd like to see the culture worker stick around, but significantly buffed and produced only in special situations.
 
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To put some concerns at rest, as I've said in every dev diary (I think, it seems like it at this point) we're always working on the AI and the work done on Humanoids, Plantoids and considering game balance isn't subtracting from that.
 
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Would it be possible to make a subterranean trait or civic? I always loved the idea of vast underground empires that carve out their civilization from the earth. It is a much to RP as a dwarf, and I think it'd match up with Lithoids rather well too.
 
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Regarding Unity and Research, I think one of the big problems is how they shake out in the late game. Research gets repeatables that you can just endlessly churn out which means that in practice you're always rewarded for increasing research.

Unity on the other hand has is a finite "tech tree". The Ambitions are great, but again there is a finite amount you need to keep them going (particularly if you only care about a handful of them).

Your ideas for unity sound promising, and I hope to hear more about it, however we're still left with the problem of research's endless repeatables incentivizing a very tech-heavy gameplay.

The second problem with Unity/Traditions is how much you gatekeep traditions behind technology. An empire that goes heavy down unity finds themselves stuck at points because they need to wait for their technology to catch up. On the flip side, you don't have as much of that dynamic on the tech-side. For example, why is Ascension Theory gatekeeped as a tech? Wouldn't it be better as something like the final tradition unlock?
 
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One example that I want to talk about is the issue with Research Booming, where power players can essentially outpace other empires due to focusing a lot on research. What enables this is usually Districts that provide Researcher Jobs, which is relatively easy to gain access to early on through Origins such as Shattered Ring or Void Dwellers (the latter not being nearly as strong).

While this is certainly true, districts themselves are not the end-all-be-all of tech rushing. Void Dwellers does get out to the strongest initial start due to its districts, but is soon passed not just by Shattered Ring but also by Necrophage, which has to get the majority of its science via labs. VD also has a significant period of downtime in the early-mid game when it either has to wait on new Habitats to come online, or conquer territory to expand instead, and this is a real force counteracting that early lead.

If you target research districts directly, you're not really going to curb tech rushing - you're just going to shift focus onto builds that have access to more building slots/pops early on - Necrophage, Resource Consolidation, etc. And honestly, tech rushes from 'fair' origins like Remnants, On the Shoulders of Giants, and Prosperous Unification are not even that far behind, especially when combined with Technocracy.

I suspect the real problem here, at least in regards to single player gameplay, is the fact the current AI is so incredibly inept at building research that the player focusing on ANY amount of early science will put them ahead. If I tech rush on high-difficulty Starnet (sorry, has to be said), for instance, the results are very different. Not only is the AI actually threatening to me when I neglect defense like this, but it can almost keep pace with a half-decent tech build while still fielding a serious fleet! Perhaps if the vanilla AI was capable of this, you wouldn't have to focus on curbing things like tech rushing, and could instead fine-tune origins based on their overall power instead.


For Shattered Ring we are looking into changing the start from a pure “end-game” Ring World, to be more of an actual “Shattered Ring” that you need to repair before you gain access to the powerful Districts of the Ring World. Putting additional emphasis on the fantasy of restoring this ancient megastructure to its former glory can be a fun addition to the Origin itself. Although we haven’t decided exactly what we’re doing, changing the start to be a Shattered Ring that you can restore with the Mega-Engineering technology is a likely route.

I am skeptical about how the exact balance would work out with this (was this not the idea anyway?), but it's true that Shattered Ring is currently incredibly broken with Machine Empires. That part is key, btw - it's actually not that strong at all for empires that are harmed by Ringworld Preference. I hope you guys are keeping this fact in mind, so that we do not end up with a scenario where Shattered Ring is finally balanced for MEs but utterly useless for everyone else.
 
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I'd like to see more mechanics that promote or force empire division, like a Stability penality for each colonised system beyond the first.

That way the larger your empire, the more likely it's going to splinter, and the more resources you need to dedicate to spamming Stability (as opposed to just spamming research until science fixes your bureaucracy problems forever).
 
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Unity & Empire Sprawl
Beyond Lem, we are also going to take a look at Empire Sprawl and Unity. The design for Admin Capacity was never really something that I felt worked out, and we never finished the design that was intended for it. Continuing to use Admin Cap as a mechanic also feels a bit like a dead end due to multiple reasons (ranging from design to technical), so we’re instead going to look into another solution.

I have a design for doubling down on using Unity as the resource for internal management, removing Admin Cap entirely, and to make Empire Sprawl something that you can never mitigate anymore. More sprawling empires will always suffer harsher penalties from Empire Sprawl, and we’ll instead focus on how Unity can be used internally to mitigate some of those penalties. Examples could be Edicts that have a Unity Upkeep Cost, and perhaps reduce the Research Cost Penalty induced by Empire Sprawl. Angry Pops could potentially also have a Unity Upkeep Cost, to represent the drain on your society.

Note that these ideas are very much in their infancy and very prone to change. We will probably start talking a bit more about that once Lem has been released, but I wanted to share some thoughts with you so that we could gather some initial feedback.

One thing which I think needs to be considered regarding additional uses for unity is that, like science (which the game treats as a roughly equivalent resource), you should never be able to have 'enough' unity - there should always be a reward for generating more, faster.
 
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I don't understand this

I don't understand the issue of "Research Booming." I would expect that an empire that spends more resources towards tech and focuses on it should outpace one that does not. Why is that a problem? Or are you referring to an exploit that provides benefits beyond that of just merely making it a focus for your empire?

The problem is, either you focus on tech spam or you get punk'd. There's no middle ground, and nor is there really a downside to spamming research. Take Civ as an example: you can choose to spam out research, but doing so effectively requires you to adopt a tall strat and only have like 4 cities due to size penalties and your army will remain skeletal for ages since building a library stops you building units until it's done. Meamwhile in Stellaris spamming labs doesn't stop you also building ships since they have vastly different construction requirements and you can paint the galaxy as wide as you want as long as you throw down a few admin buildings.
 
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I’m not entirely sure that origins specifically catering to otherwise-under/overpowered starts really need balance changes that large. Like it’s effectively a difficulty slider/option, right? If I play a ringworld start I’m really not concerned with game balance.

This just seems like making a currently very unique game option much less interesting in pursuit of something that people are kind of opting out of if they select that option.
 
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I like literally all of what you said in this DevDiary.
I have a design for doubling down on using Unity as the resource for internal management, removing Admin Cap entirely, and to make Empire Sprawl something that you can never mitigate anymore. More sprawling empires will always suffer harsher penalties from Empire Sprawl, and we’ll instead focus on how Unity can be used internally to mitigate some of those penalties. Examples could be Edicts that have a Unity Upkeep Cost, and perhaps reduce the Research Cost Penalty induced by Empire Sprawl. Angry Pops could potentially also have a Unity Upkeep Cost, to represent the drain on your society.
But especially I like this.
Making both unity more useful as well as modelling your empire better (in terms of simulation) is a great idea.

To reference @Pancakelord 's suggestion of Unity V Influence, i like the idea of Unity exclusively being for internal management and influence exclusively for external campaigns.
It sounds like that is roughly the direction you're going for and it is certainly nice to hear as i think it would mop up several of the smaller inconsistencies and inconveniences that have piled up around the whole admin cap / empire sprawl / unity / influence area.
 
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