EU4 - Development Diary - 24th of March 2020

[DominusNovus]

I never even considered that the Dominicans and Jesuits might have issues with each other, I'd just assumed they'd form a common front against non-Catholics. You learn more everyday. Say, can you explain that joke?

Jesuits are considered as very liberal, and Dominicans as very conservative. As in 'left wing/right wing.' There's a little more nuance, but it really boils down to the Jesuits as touchy feely and the Dominicans are still doing victory laps over wiping out the Cathars.

 

[Oporto]

A little offtop, but were new units for United Italy introduced?

 

[Mr.Grizzly]

A little offtop, but were new units for United Italy introduced?

No sadly, stuck with generic models, just like Germany

 

[Oporto]

No sadly, stuck with generic models, just like Germany

That's sucks.
Oh, well. Those Milanese units would look nice...

 

[Mr.Grizzly]

That's sucks.
Oh, well. Those Milanese units would look nice...

I would gladly take any Italian minor's models as a temporary stop gap, but yeah Milan's are probably the best, though I'm not a huge fan of their Tier 4 Infantry

 

[Oporto]

I would gladly take any Italian minor's models as a temporary stop gap, but yeah Milan's are probably the best, though I'm not a huge fan of their Tier 4 Infantry

I actually like them
Not so fond of Florence/Tuscany Tier-2 though.
And what would look good for Germany? Guess the Prussian ones, like historically?

 

[Greenskyguy]

Any updates on resisiting the Reformation for German/Italian minors? Or something to push the centers of reformation up toward Sweden/Denmark.

 

[Mr.Grizzly]

I actually like them
Not so fond of Florence/Tuscany Tier-2 though.
And what would look good for Germany? Guess the Prussian ones, like historically?

Historically and they do look very nice, my problem with the Tier 4 Infantry for Milan is the greatcoats they wear just seem out of place for the game

 

[cetvrtak]

Will the AI Pope be issuing Bulls ASAP? With only six Bulls it might get too repetitive.

 

[tioperete]

Speaking about the Pope... will you add Ancona as you added Perugia? Think Ancona was bigger and more important.

 

[RichardOlcese]

Will the AI Pope be issuing Bulls ASAP? With only six Bulls it might get too repetitive.

I don't think getting the money to issue one of them will be so easy... So, even if AI wanted to issue a bull ASAP, the thing is it has to get the money first. 2000 ducats is no small bite!

 

[magnusvejby]

I like that catholicism gets stronger. But it looks like that it's going to get "samey" realy quick.
I would have liked if both the bulls and concession had some downsides with them.

These bulls feel alot like policies, perhaps if there were some risks activating them... perhaps some wicked popes *cough* CK2 *cough* and wicked papal bulls.

not gonna list them, but just by 5 minutes of thinking I've come up with "countless" ideas that most likely are easy to write in.... but for some reason this feels so lacking which is too bad because the "groundwork" is really interesting.

Not too late to come out with some suprise addition, paradox...

 

[RichardOlcese]

please mission trees of genoa and venice. please

I second about Genoa. Venice's has already been announced here.

 

[RichardOlcese]

I like that catholicism gets stronger. But it looks like that it's going to get "samey" realy quick.
I would have liked if both the bulls and concession had some downsides with them.

These bulls feel alot like policies, perhaps if there were some risks activating them... perhaps some wicked popes *cough* CK2 *cough* and wicked papal bulls.

not gonna list them, but just by 5 minutes of thinking I've come up with "countless" ideas that most likely are easy to write in.... but for some reason this feels so lacking which is too bad because the "groundwork" is really interesting.

Not too late to come out with some suprise addition, paradox...

You better have that cough checked. It could be the virus!

 

[el Santiago]

Still no voting during the conclave.
Meh.

#TruePolitics

 

[korawit13]

I hope Paradox would include all of those fun popes:
Pope Clement VII (Pope from 1523 to 1534)
Clement was inclined to changing his political views to match those of whoever was the most powerful and wealthy at any given time.
Pope Leo X (1513 to 1521)
The corrupt religious leader was fond of putting prices on others' sins and requiring them to give him money in return for absolving their wrongdoings. Leo X set sinner fines for crimes such as murder, incest, and theft, "Pope Leo X: Opponent of the Reformation" (Compass Point Books, 2006).
Pope Julius II (1503 to 1513)
Pope Alexander VI (1492 to 1503)

It is nice that the HRE rulers like to be healthy. I hope the Imperial diet includes fruits and vegetables. I know what the Imperial Diet is. Please, everyone, are stay safe and protect yourself from the virus.

 

[Lightwell]

Had they done even a 1/4 of this things to the Muslism mechanics and god knows what would have happend

I really want to see just how badly they could insult each faith with the in-game mechanics. No malice. It's just that the responses have been fun. Also want to see general changes to make religions a bit more involved for everyone.

Regardless of the status of mysticism within Catholicism, the idea of mysticism in opposition to a doctrine that literlaly means 'faith alone' is a non sequiter. Mystics are all about embracing faith as the main means of knowledge.

That's a bit different. 'Sola Fide' is more of a, "By faith alone, we are saved". However, contrasting the Sacrament-slayer doctrine with mysticism is still somewhat odd.

 

[EasternTiger]

Jesuits are considered as very liberal, and Dominicans as very conservative. As in 'left wing/right wing.' There's a little more nuance, but it really boils down to the Jesuits as touchy feely and the Dominicans are still doing victory laps over wiping out the Cathars.

This reminds me of a good joke:

Two men considering a religious vocation were having a conversation. “What is similar about the Jesuit and Dominican Orders? ” the one asked.

The second replied, “Well, they were both founded by Spaniards — St. Dominic for the Dominicans, and St. Ignatius of Loyola for the Jesuits. They were also both founded to combat heresy — the Dominicans to fight the Albigensians, and the Jesuits to fight the Protestants.”

“What is different about the Jesuit and Dominican Orders?”

“Met any Albigensians lately?”

 

[DominusNovus]

This reminds me of a good joke:

Two men considering a religious vocation were having a conversation. “What is similar about the Jesuit and Dominican Orders? ” the one asked.

The second replied, “Well, they were both founded by Spaniards — St. Dominic for the Dominicans, and St. Ignatius of Loyola for the Jesuits. They were also both founded to combat heresy — the Dominicans to fight the Albigensians, and the Jesuits to fight the Protestants.”

“What is different about the Jesuit and Dominican Orders?”

“Met any Albigensians lately?”

Yup, that was the joke I was kind of paraphrasing.

 

[Lucas1899]

Regardless of the status of mysticism within Catholicism, the idea of mysticism in opposition to a doctrine that literlaly means 'faith alone' is a non sequiter. Mystics are all about embracing faith as the main means of knowledge.



Agreed 100%. The terminology is about as accurate as would be expected from a cursory overview of Catholicism within a Protestant cultural context (something even many Catholics living in culturally Protestant countries struggle with).

@Johan or @Groogy Would you be open to considering changing some of the localization? The fundamental mechanics sound pretty good (I particularly like the general contrast of getting more out of true faith provinces or a smaller amount from all provinces), but the terms themselves could use a lot of work.

First Concession:
Secret Confessions really sounds redundant, as the Seal of Confession has been a fundamental aspect of Catholicism since, at least, the 13th century and most likely since the earliest days of the Church.

Second Concession:
As mentioned before, it isn't the translation of the Bible itself that was the problem for the Church, but unauthorized translations. Perhaps renaming it something along the lines of 'authorized translations' or something. Or, as the conciliatory alternative to 'Roman Catechism,' perhaps something vague like 'Ecumenical Catechism.'
EDIT: another option would be to divide it by the language of the Mass, rather than of the Bible. After all, Catholic Masses were conducted in primarily in Latin well after the Reformation, even when authorized translated Bibles became common for Catholics. So, it could be "Catholic Mass/Vernacular Mass" as an option.

Third Concession:
I'd be surprised if the Church gave ground on clerical celibacy, but there's nothing fundamentally off about the naming here, so no real complaints. There's probably a better name, but its not inherently bad.

Fourth Concession:
The Magisterium of the Catholic Church (Catholic Magisterium) is the Church's authority to interpret the Word of God. This is a far better contrast to Sola Fide, which is not something the Church would ever embrace, as it is absolutely contrary to Catholic Dogma, which does not change (Doctrine can change, but Dogma cannot).

Finally, I think there could be some further Concessions to add to the list, perhaps something around the original hot button issues like Indulgences, but that would be an actual mechanical proposal, and I'm just concerned about the terminology used.

On that subject, with the current Concessions, what would be the "historic" route to take? It is easy to see what some cannot be (e.g. taking "Sole Fide" would not be historical), but there should be a historic path to take.