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EU4 - Development Diary - 17th March 2016

Hi everyone and welcome to another development diary for Europa Univeralis IV.


Today we will be covering a much-anticipated mechanic. For times where a nation you love is being attacked and you are unable or unwilling to sign an alliance or when you simply want to make your idle standing army work for their bread, we introduce Condottieri.

Condottieri DD 01.jpg


Condottieri are armies which you have rented out to other nations in exchange for money. Condottieri armies will remain in control of the nation who has offered them but they will fight and die for their recipient country marking their recipient’s enemies as their own.


When renting out your army as Condottieri, you are able to negotiate the fee for your services, which is set as a multiple of their monthly maintenance, from 0x all the way up to 5x, with the first 18 months paid upfront. If you are confident that you are leaving behind enough of a garrison, you can send out a sizable amount of your army, up to 20 units (increased by +available mercenary ideas) to earn money for you on the battlefield.


Once rented out, Condottieri will be hostile to the recipient’s enemies and will be able to fight and siege in the name of the paying nation. They will also have the military access which their recipient country has but these enemies will have access to the Condottieri’s homelands too, so they cannot simply seek refuge at home. In addition to the fee that you have charged your recipient country, your units will also gain 50% more prestige and army tradition for fighting as Condottieri.

Condottieri DD 02.jpg


After 18 months have passed, either side may cancel the arrangement and the troops will go back to being a regular army. The agreement can remain for as long as both parties are satisfied. Naturally, should a nation find themselves at war with a nation who is renting their Condottieri, the contract will be cancelled. Furthermore, if the paying country finds themselves at peace, they can end the contract before the 18 months are up.

More to come next week!
 
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  • Does this give penalty bonus to relations with whome the buyyer is war with? You know we are helping them with manpower, without declaring war.
  • Can we rent ships?
  • Also can we rent out mercenaries?
  • Can we Send our Ruler & Heir General and send him?
  • Can It be done with rival countries?
  • Say, If our ally is rival with another country. Can we rent our armies to that other rivaled country?
  • Does this increasing the inflation?
  • Does It brings some events? Maybe Oppinion bonus for fighting together?
@DDRJake
 
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Can`t wait to lend a 10 stack army to multiple minors in ireland as England and see them swallow each other up. Eating them up in one war by myself a decade later.
 
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I don't really like this. I guess it's not for everyone!

The amount of troops is either too big (early game) or too small (late game). Why not have it scale with combat width?

Additionally, it seems extremely abusable in MP and will probably end up banned or severely limited in most games. Even in SP, giving the player the opportunity to enter any war and disregard truces seems very powerful.

We'll need more information to really appreciate the impact of this change :)
 
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@DDRJake I love the idea, quite similar to some ideas to mercenaries I posted a long time ago... However, my concerns back then (which is only ever bigger now), how can you ensure against exploits? I speculate that with an upfront payment, you could rent out armies and not engage the enemy, thus getting free-money... And if there isn´t enough military access to reach you, you are perfectly safe to get the money (since I get that the enemy can go into your borders and destroy the Condottieri)... I speculated back then, that it might be better to have a small starting fee and a small fixed amount per month, and increase it depending on the amount of fighting you actually do (must sacrifice troops to gain more money, which could is equivalent to warscore participation).

Do however love that the contract is binding for a set amount of months (suppose it´s moddable) and can be cancelled at any time, though could it be better if you prolonged it for a set period of time again with the least amount being 6 months and maximum 18 months? have it pop-up like bank-loans... you might have tested this already and found it didn´t work, just a thought on players canceling the contract to weaken both nations in the middle or just before a large battle that could have been won prior to cancel but will tip the war (still exhausted manpower) or prolong it. This could then give players the upperhand in attacking both nations weakened and ready to be annexed...

Also, how will this effect relations? Will it be covert with a risk of discovery, since you could have them fight your own allies... Suspect the target nations will suffer an opinion drop, at least over time (like pirates)...

Might I suggest, incorporating this (along with ships) into the alliance and CoA... I really wanted alliances to be more directed and not attack-defend against anybody (diplomacy was way more complex and friends and enemies often lead to issues whether or not they could be regarded as dishonourable... France allied to Ottoman and had relations with Venice, didn´t join one of the Otto-Ven war because they were friends with both, yet they seemed to have promised Venice to defend them which they didn´t do because Venice never called).

However, having alliances being made a bit more complex than being at war at once could be a neat feature... So when a CoA is given you can request war reparations, condottieri (for no cost), ships (could be useful for Switzerlake nations), or that you ally will support with mainly ships or armies or both (England joined a war, giving gold and only agreed on sending their fleet to blockade and protect their ally).

This could even give small favour-boosts or cost less favour when you only ask for 3 ducats per month instead of calling them in all the time, could also make the AI being made less willing to join full-scale but willing to aid in other ways... Like if they are low on manpower but have lots of gold... Might even make CoA more nuanced instead of the current system, all or nothing to wars :)
 
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Do you gain power projection for sending condottieri to fight in wars against your rivals?
 
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I certainly love this, will make militaristic Empires such as Prussia be able to play tall and still militant without expanding too much; the armies just fight elsewhere!
 
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will the hiring country force limit go up by 5 if he buy/borrow a 5 stack?

and will there be a cap on how many Condottieri armies you can have at one time?
 
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i would like to turn it off in mp, because rules in mp are shit i want no rules at all so i need to have all be rdy in the settings xD
 

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I assume that nations will refuse your help if you don't have credible military access and your troops can't be expected to fight.

Some questions though:
* Is there something in place to prevent you from playing both sides of a war at the same time?
* Is there some way (apart from the prestige loss) to prevent the exploit of hiring out some mercs you were going to disband anyway, getting 18 months worth of payment, and immediately send them to be stackwiped?
* Do you gain WE while you're renting your armies out? Do you still lose 0.1 WE/month for being at peace?
 
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I assume that nations will refuse your help if you don't have credible military access and your troops can't be expected to fight.

Some questions though:
* Is there something in place to prevent you from playing both sides of a war at the same time?
* Is there some way (apart from the prestige loss) to prevent the exploit of hiring out some mercs you were going to disband anyway, getting 18 months worth of payment, and immediately send them to be stackwiped?
* Do you gain AE while you're renting your armies out? Do you still lose 0.1 AE/month for being at peace?

Why would you gain AE for renting armies? Also, to clarify, you lose always AE peace or war, at 1 January of each year with base amount of 2. (Influenced by prestige, ideas etc.)
 
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Subbak

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Hmm... I just realised that the screenshot shows a Spanish Burgundian inheritance (plus Charolais), and Netherland formed and is at war with Spain.
And Switzerland has a CoR. This is quite clearly the 80YW bookmark, as this situation arising through normal play is highly improbable. Is this an indication that they're adding support to later bookmarks?
 
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JustMormegil

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I have ambiguous feeling about Condottieri feature...

1. Is number of Condottieri limited for country which hires them? It seems like wars will become unpredictable, as you can't evaluate final enemy army any more.
2. Why is there hardcoded 20 limit of condottieri army size? Function from combat_width possibly can do it better... (combat_width / 2 may be?)
3. Also, not sure that AI can deal with new mechanics. Hope we won't end up again with AI ignoring Condottieri completely or AI cheating with Condottieri.
 
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Why would you gain AE for renting armies? Also, to clarify, you lose always AE peace or war, at 1 January of each year with base amount of 2. (Influenced by prestige, ideas etc.)
My bad, I meant WE, not AE. Edited.
 

Red Death

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What's keeping you from hiding the army you rent out on the other side world while raking in the cash?
 
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LS22

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Don't like it. Seems more like a snowball efect feature, then any other thing. This will only make OP nations even more OP, imo.
 
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