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CO Word of the Week #13

Last week we touched upon the economy in Cities: Skylines II, how it works now, and how it might be subject to change based on your feedback. This time around we’ll answer some of your questions about the citizens, education, and public transport.

Could you talk about how citizens are simulated in the game?
You have noticed that sometimes citizens don’t behave the way you might expect. Sometimes citizens vanish or they might stay at home for a day. So let’s talk about when that can happen and why. A citizen can despawn in some circumstances: for example, when there is a dead-lock with other agents, such as an overly long queue of cars, or there is no reasonable path to their destination. There is still the rule that a citizen cannot teleport to their destination. If they despawn, they teleport to their previous destination so they can’t just skip bad traffic by teleporting. Some of you have also noticed that when the city grows bigger there is a probability for whether or not an agent will travel to work or school. This is intended, and citizens become a bit more passive to reduce traffic, but there is no limit to the number of moving agents. This choice was made to keep traffic manageable because reducing private car ownership didn't help as city centers were filled with pedestrians. Performance gain from the reduced pathfind load was just an extra benefit.

How do citizens choose which products to buy?
When a citizen goes shopping for their household, the game picks the type of goods through a weighted random check. Products that citizens should need more of or more often have a heavier weight and are roughly based on real-world consumption statistics. Additionally, each age group has certain products they “prefer” which affects the weighted check. As an example, citizens are more likely to purchase food over media, and a household of seniors is even less interested in media than the other age groups. Once the products have been purchased, they’re added to the household’s resources and eventually consumed.

How did you balance the education system?
The citizen Education system closely follows the same system we had in the original Cities: Skylines. When a citizen is educated, they will get a job with a better salary which gives them more opportunities to live in different places. While we have made some improvements to it to encourage more High School students, the Education system still needs some balancing, as we feel it’s currently not working as well as it could. For example, the number of Elementary Schools needed in the city is quite huge because the percentage of the population that goes to Elementary School is big.

The children don't have a choice between studying and working so that also raises the number of students compared to other education levels, where a portion of the eligible students will choose to work instead. The Elementary School’s student capacity has been balanced around how many students the building could reasonably hold, and while it might improve the situation, a small school building with 1000 students is quite unrealistic. Currently, we are checking the factors that need to be considered to balance this issue. This includes, for example, how long it takes to graduate from different types of schools. Additionally, each school type has its own Graduation check curve that determines the probability of graduating. Elementary School has the highest probability and University has the lowest probability.

Is there a system to “unbunch” public transportation vehicles?
Public transportation vehicles can get “bunched up” due to traffic or most often when a new line is created and the vehicles spawn. We have a system that spreads out the vehicles on a singular line by extending stopping times when necessary. This helps the vehicles to move at regular intervals, so your citizens can get where they need to go and you don’t have all buses arriving in one long line, but it may take a little while for vehicles to spread out properly on a brand new line. We have received reports of public transportation vehicles getting stuck for too long at a stop and we are investigating what are the reasons behind this.

Feel free to send more questions our way and we’ll be answering them in future Words of the Week!

Sincerely,
Mariina
 
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Every week, again and again, I am simply baffled by your Words of the Week. You always claim you want to interact with the community, yet you completely choose to ignore the community. You answer "questions" that most seasoned CS-players (the majority on this forum are seasoned, not new players) already know the answer to. You completely ignore the real questions, frustrations and sentiment that lives in your community.

You made it really clear that these Words of the Week are only continuing because Paradox kind of made you do it ("we received a phone call from Sweden"), and it really shows. These WotW's are becoming more and more bland, could have been written by ChatGPT, and completely lack any human emotion. Even if Paradox made you do this, just make the most of it! Because this way you are only losing more and more of CO's reputation.

Yes, you claimed there isn't really any news until the next patch. But, there is! Let me give you a couple hints for the next WotW:
  • Job openings: people have seen that you have 4 job openings for senior personnel. You could've written a whole post about it. And please don't say that isn't a topic people would be interested in this. People have been asking for you to expand your team for months now. It would actually be a WotW that would be welcomed by the community, and you would for once get kudo's
  • The streamers: come on. Everyone has seen the numerous YouTube-video's from well known streamers. Address the issue!
  • It's been a couple of weeks since the last patch. You could give some insights what has been worked on. We get that you don't have a weekly update on bug fixes. But you must have made a bunch of progress since the last patch.
I agree so much with this, the WOTWs come across as pretty low-effort. Not sure if it's because the team's demoralized or what, but you can do so much better than this. Throw in some illustrations. Maybe screenshots and models from when the game was in (earlier) development. Put in some humour where appropriate. Spruce them up a little.

And seriously --whatever the reasoning behind it, this whole 'pretend everything's fine in the WOTW even though it's patently obvious to absolutely everyone it isn't' isn't working. Your writing needs to reflect that your game is in really bad shape. We shouldn't have to tell you this.
 
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Last week we touched upon the economy in Cities: Skylines II, how it works now, and how it might be subject to change based on your feedback. This time around we’ll answer some of your questions about the citizens, education, and public transport.

Could you talk about how citizens are simulated in the game?
You have noticed that sometimes citizens don’t behave the way you might expect. Sometimes citizens vanish or they might stay at home for a day. So let’s talk about when that can happen and why. A citizen can despawn in some circumstances: for example, when there is a dead-lock with other agents, such as an overly long queue of cars, or there is no reasonable path to their destination. There is still the rule that a citizen cannot teleport to their destination. If they despawn, they teleport to their previous destination so they can’t just skip bad traffic by teleporting. Some of you have also noticed that when the city grows bigger there is a probability for whether or not an agent will travel to work or school. This is intended, and citizens become a bit more passive to reduce traffic, but there is no limit to the number of moving agents. This choice was made to keep traffic manageable because reducing private car ownership didn't help as city centers were filled with pedestrians. Performance gain from the reduced pathfind load was just an extra benefit.

How do citizens choose which products to buy?
When a citizen goes shopping for their household, the game picks the type of goods through a weighted random check. Products that citizens should need more of or more often have a heavier weight and are roughly based on real-world consumption statistics. Additionally, each age group has certain products they “prefer” which affects the weighted check. As an example, citizens are more likely to purchase food over media, and a household of seniors is even less interested in media than the other age groups. Once the products have been purchased, they’re added to the household’s resources and eventually consumed.

How did you balance the education system?
The citizen Education system closely follows the same system we had in the original Cities: Skylines. When a citizen is educated, they will get a job with a better salary which gives them more opportunities to live in different places. While we have made some improvements to it to encourage more High School students, the Education system still needs some balancing, as we feel it’s currently not working as well as it could. For example, the number of Elementary Schools needed in the city is quite huge because the percentage of the population that goes to Elementary School is big.

The children don't have a choice between studying and working so that also raises the number of students compared to other education levels, where a portion of the eligible students will choose to work instead. The Elementary School’s student capacity has been balanced around how many students the building could reasonably hold, and while it might improve the situation, a small school building with 1000 students is quite unrealistic. Currently, we are checking the factors that need to be considered to balance this issue. This includes, for example, how long it takes to graduate from different types of schools. Additionally, each school type has its own Graduation check curve that determines the probability of graduating. Elementary School has the highest probability and University has the lowest probability.

Is there a system to “unbunch” public transportation vehicles?
Public transportation vehicles can get “bunched up” due to traffic or most often when a new line is created and the vehicles spawn. We have a system that spreads out the vehicles on a singular line by extending stopping times when necessary. This helps the vehicles to move at regular intervals, so your citizens can get where they need to go and you don’t have all buses arriving in one long line, but it may take a little while for vehicles to spread out properly on a brand new line. We have received reports of public transportation vehicles getting stuck for too long at a stop and we are investigating what are the reasons behind this.

Feel free to send more questions our way and we’ll be answering them in future Words of the Week!

Sincerely,
Mariina
How about a crash fix for the problem that affects many people who purchased this game expecting it to work.Worry about actual gameplay fine tweeks afterwards.I do love this game but very disappointed atm.
 
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I agree so much with this, the WOTWs come across as pretty low-effort. Not sure if it's because the team's demoralized or what, but you can do so much better than this. Throw in some illustrations. Maybe screenshots and models from when the game was in (earlier) development. Put in some humour where appropriate. Spruce them up a little.

And seriously --whatever the reasoning behind it, this whole 'pretend everything's fine in the WOTW even though it's patently obvious to absolutely everyone it isn't' isn't working. Your writing needs to reflect that your game is in really bad shape. We shouldn't have to tell you this.
So what are they supposed to write when they don't have anything concrete about the various fixes that are being worked on? CO are only posting this filler because PDX won't let them reduce their posting schedule even when they've got nothing substantive to contribute.
 
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So what are they supposed to write when they don't have anything concrete about the various fixes that are being worked on? CO are only posting this filler because PDX won't let them reduce their posting schedule even when they've got nothing substantive to contribute.
Nothing! Why are they even posting blabla WoWs? Those are just more slaps in our faces. Pretending to communicate is not a good substitute for actually communicating. But I guess everything's fair in love and marketing.
 
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Nothing! Why are they even posting blabla WoWs? Those are just more slaps in our faces. Pretending to communicate is not a good substitute for actually communicating. But I guess everything's fair in love and marketing.
Weren't they forced upon their hands by Paradox with the "phone call from Sweden"? They really wanted to stop this since CO of the Week #10. Not that they are pretending to communicate. They just don't have anything to go by.
 
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Weren't they forced upon their hands by Paradox with the "phone call from Sweden"? They really wanted to stop this since CO of the Week #10. Not that they are pretending to communicate. They just don't have anything to go by.
It's not like there's a shortage of legitimate reasons to criticise CO, people shouldn't attack them for things we know aren't their fault.
 
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So what are they supposed to write when they don't have anything concrete about the various fixes that are being worked on? CO are only posting this filler because PDX won't let them reduce their posting schedule even when they've got nothing substantive to contribute.
I was talking about the effort/production quality of the WOTWs themselves (and I stand by what I wrote, although maybe the remark at the end was a bit crass), not the chosen topics, but the person I replied to had some really good ideas. Other than what he suggested... maybe talk about the work process at CO? With a kind of 'tour of the premises' with photos and whatnot? I don't know, I guess my main issue is that they're talking in the WOTWs as if everything is fine, when we know their game is in trouble. I'm rooting for CS2, I really am, but it seems like a deep hole to climb out of, and I'm worried about PDX just dropping support like they have for other games recently.
 
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I was talking about the effort/production quality of the WOTWs themselves (and I stand by what I wrote, although maybe the remark at the end was a bit crass), not the chosen topics, but the person I replied to had some really good ideas. Other than what he suggested... maybe talk about the work process at CO? With a kind of 'tour of the premises' with photos and whatnot? I don't know, I guess my main issue is that they're talking in the WOTWs as if everything is fine, when we know their game is in trouble. I'm rooting for CS2, I really am, but it seems like a deep hole to climb out of, and I'm worried about PDX just dropping support like they have for other games recently.
That they're not crawling on hands and knees over broken glass every single time they post something doesn't mean they're ignoring the fact that the game is in trouble. They're working on it every day! They just don't have anything concrete to give us because they're working on the harder bugs that take longer to hunt down and fix. Mariina told us this weeks ago. The WoTWs have become fluff pieces because PDX are making CO post even though they don't have anything substantive to tell us and won't until the next patch is ready, which is likely to be a month away. We don't need time wasting nonsense like a tour of the premises or whatever, we need them bug fixing. At least the tutorial type posts explain away some of the mysteries that lurk behind CS2's mechanics, and to that extent they're useful (although they could be more detailed sometimes).
 
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That they're not crawling on hands and knees over broken glass every single time they post something doesn't mean they're ignoring the fact that the game is in trouble. They're working on it every day! They just don't have anything concrete to give us because they're working on the harder bugs that take longer to hunt down and fix. Mariina told us this weeks ago. The WoTWs have become fluff pieces because PDX are making CO post even though they don't have anything substantive to tell us and won't until the next patch is ready, which is likely to be a month away. We don't need time wasting nonsense like a tour of the premises or whatever, we need them bug fixing. At least the tutorial type posts explain away some of the mysteries that lurk behind CS2's mechanics, and to that extent they're useful (although they could be more detailed sometimes).
wut. Now you're just being melodramatic, and responding to things I haven't said (again). And no, sprucing up WOTWs wouldn't be much of a time sink at all, choosing some pictures on your hard drive and attaching them for example takes only a few seconds.

What we're asking for (in part) is something like this week's WOTW, both in contents and tone. It acknowledged a lot more clearly that there are problems, gave concrete answers to how they were going to be addressed, and predictably it was well received by the community :) . Don't you agree it's a big step up from the previous ones?
 
wut. Now you're just being melodramatic, and responding to things I haven't said (again). And no, sprucing up WOTWs wouldn't be much of a time sink at all, choosing some pictures on your hard drive and attaching them for example takes only a few seconds.

What we're asking for (in part) is something like this week's WOTW, both in contents and tone. It acknowledged a lot more clearly that there are problems, gave concrete answers to how they were going to be addressed, and predictably it was well received by the community :) . Don't you agree it's a big step up from the previous ones?
Oh, give it a rest. You're just another perpetual malcontent whom CO can never satisfy. Using a bit of poetic licence is not "responding to things you haven't said" (which I have never done), it is simply highlighting how ridiculously overwrought your own posts are in their pig-headed insistence on always reading CO's posts in the worst possible light regardless of any context. Mariina has acknowledged the problems and apologised for them on multiple occasions but it was never enough for you and your ilk, because then your excuse to always be angry would disappear. Pretending as you did that CO was ignoring the game's problems was flagrantly dishonest. For the umpteenth time, the WoTWs became fluff pieces because PDX were making CO post even though they didn't have anything substantive to tell us. Today's WoTW was welcome, to be sure, but it wasn't because of the perpetual whining of the bad faith complainers, it was because after several weeks of work Mariina finally had something more concrete to share with us. Just go away and take your negativity and dishonesty with you.
 
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