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CK2 Dev Diary #68: Taming the Dragon

Greetings!

Today I’d like to talk about what you can do should you decide that being in the Emperor’s good graces isn’t a priority. While most characters will want to pay tribute to China in order to reap benefits over a longer time, certain characters would rather give that up for short-term gain - or simply think themselves a contender to the Middle Kingdom…

You can take Hostile Actions towards China by entering a special menu located next to the portrait of the Western Governor in the China Screen. In this menu you will exclusively find actions that in one way or another displeases the Emperor - the most basic of examples being the decision to declare a war to free yourself from being an Imperial Tributary.
Hostile Actions.png


The three most interesting Hostile Actions you can take are the following three ones; Raiding China, Forcing China to Open Up and Invading China.

Raiding China
This action can only be taken if you own a province within a certain Geographical region, which includes Tibet, Mongolia and Eastern India. When you choose to Raid China, you give up a portion of your Levy and Levy Regain Rate (Manpower if Nomadic), a significant chunk of your Trade Income should you own any Silk Road Trade Posts, and the ability to Pay Tribute or Ask for Boons. You will also lose a static amount of Grace every month you Raid China. Raiding China will also paint a target on your head - should China go on the warpath, they might just visit you first...

When Raiding China you will, each year, receive loot taken from the outskirts of the Middle Kingdom. A random amount of Gold, Prestige and other treasures can be found when Raiding, making the interaction particularly attractive for smaller realms (i.e. the tribal peoples in Northern Tibet) and Nomads (as they rely heavily on prestige, and lack many sources of income).

There are many potential outcomes when Raiding China, while most often you will receive a modest amount of gold and prestige, sometimes you will receive something altogether more rare - your raiders can bring home vast treasures, artifacts, siege engineers (of questionable loyalty), concubines or even beasts from the Chinese wilderness…
Raiding China.png


Forcing China to Open Up
If China should turn inwards and become Isolationist you might find your empire without the massive benefits of the Silk Road. If you’re strong enough, you can try and make China open up the Silk Road again. This can be done in a multitude of ways - all which start with you negotiating with them:

Peaceful Negotiation - The Emperor might demand something from you in exchange for opening up - for example that you become his Tributary, or that you send back all Chinese characters in your court, etc.

War - If negotiations fail, you can decide to attack China in order to make them open up. This will act much like a normal war against China, with them bringing in forces from China proper to teach you a lesson in humility.

Being Sovereign on the Silk Road - If you control enough of the Silk Road yourself, you might decide to simply open the Silk Road again. This will NOT please China, who might retaliate with military force.

Should you succeed in opening up the Silk Road you will become Favored in Trade for a significant amount of years, increasing your Trade Post income by 100%.

Invading China
Invading China is no easy task - and reserved exclusively for massive empires with vast armies. Similarly to the Mongols, Invading China can be seen as an ‘end-game boss’, only that the war is started on your terms - when you feel ready to take them on.

In order to Invade China it needs to be either Stable or in a Golden Age, as this war represents less of an opportunistic land-grab and more a clash of titans. As China isn’t on the map, you will not be able to seize the Dragon Throne for your own character - but you will be able to seize it for your Dynasty! Before declaring the invasion, you select a Dynasty member (who doesn’t stand to inherit any land) to be the pretender to the Middle Kingdom.
Invade China.png


For as long as the war is going on, you will have a massive penalty to your Levy Regain rate (simulating troops seizing China Proper). In response, China will send a massive force westwards to challenge your armies - this army is vast, composed of high-quality troops and led by the very best Chinese commanders. The war itself focuses on battles and supremacy on the battlefield, rather than sieges - you will not be able to win this type of war by blitzing the lands of the Western Protectorate (should it have any), and neither will China be able to win it by just sieging your holdings. Typically, you will have to defeat about 75% of China's forces, along with reclaiming everything they might have sieged from you, in order to secure a victory.

Long-time players of CK2 might be vary of such a war, as the AI in CK2 tended to gather up all their troops in one massive doomstack - either suiciding to attrition, or in the case of attrition-free troops steamroll the opposition. After having playtested the Invasion we decided to revamp the AI in situations where it commands vast amounts of troops - they will now try and respect supply limits, though they will still want to stick close to other units and support them in potential battles. The following screenshot displays the new behaviour:
Chinese Troops Arrive.png


This means that to defeat China, your best bet is to lure them into mountain passes or use other terrain to your advantage.

If you win the Invasion of China, you will receive VAST rewards. You will immediately get a massive amount of gold, grace, prestige and artifacts (including all top-quality Chinese artifacts). You will also personally take any land the Western Protectorate might have had in the west. Your pretender will rise to the throne of China, forming a new Chinese-style dynasty, and your dynasty will be guaranteed to rule for at the very least 200 years. For as long as your dynasty rules, all landed members of your dynasty will receive a significant amount of grace every month - allowing them to tap into the vast resources of China much more easily than they would otherwise. Having your Dynasty on the throne also (practically…) guarantees that China won’t ever take hostile actions against you or your Dynasty.
Turkish China.png


Note that in addition to these hostile actions, remember that you can always attack China with normal CBs, seizing the land of the Western Protectorate. That, however, is a thing you would be wise to do while China is suffering from some kind of disaster, as then they’ll be able to call upon much fewer troops than if they would be stable.
 
This is awesome news. Can I ask a bit more about the modding, please?
1) If you have multiple off-map powers, can they each be completely differently configured?
2) Is there any cap on the number of statuses (Stable, Golden Age, etc) that each one can have?
3) Can you apply the same properties to off-map titles that you can to on-map ones - eg, 'controls_religion'?
4) What controls the putative location of each off-map power? Do we nominate an edge of the map, or an X,Y location, or just a set of regions for them to be close to?
5) Can there be, for example, two off-map powers each with its own distinct 'silk road'?

Thanks,

nd

PS: Will the behaviour of set_graphical_culture be expanded or clarified in 2.8?
1) Yes
2) They can have one enabled at a time but the number of possible ones has no limit
3) Off map titles are not handled like landed titles, so no that cannot be applied to an off map power
4) You can script their diplo range entirely in the off map's definition, either by specific provinces, a geographical region or who they border etc.
5) Yes

What do you not understand about set_graphical_culture?
 
In response, China will send a massive force westwards to challenge your armies - this army is vast, composed of high-quality troops and led by the very best Chinese commanders. The war itself focuses on battles and supremacy on the battlefield, rather than sieges - you will not be able to win this type of war by blitzing the lands of the Western Protectorate (should it have any), and neither will China be able to win it by just sieging your holdings. Typically, you will have to defeat about 75% of China's forces, along with reclaiming everything they might have sieged from you, in order to secure a victory.

That sounds both dull and illogical... Medieval warfare was centered around siege warfare; battles occurred to prevent/relief sieges. I don't know why CK2 is so obsessed with battles. Anyhow considering the nature of the game, wouldn't it be more logical to make the whole thing event driven? Like after you start the invasion you would get annual event about the progress which would eventually determine the outcome, events such as:

  • "Capture of major city": +10 IP, -1 IS
  • "Defeat of relief army": +5 IP, -1 IS
  • "Tactical retreat": -5 IS
  • "Military disaster": -10 IS

IP: Invasion Progress, after it reaches 100 the war is won.
IS: Invader Strength, determined by army size and treasury would increase odds of positive invasion events, but if it reaches 0 invasion ends in failure.

Your pretender will rise to the throne of China, forming a new Chinese-style dynasty, and your dynasty will be guaranteed to rule for at the very least 200 years.

I assume that your inspiration for the invasion mechanic is the Yuan Dynasty, but it didn't even survive 100 years.
 
That sounds both dull and illogical... Medieval warfare was centered around siege warfare; battles occurred to prevent/relief sieges. I don't know why CK2 is so obsessed with battles. Anyhow considering the nature of the game, wouldn't it be more logical to make the whole thing event driven? Like after you start the invasion you would get annual event about the progress which would eventually determine the outcome, events such as:

  • "Capture of major city": +10 IP, -1 IS
  • "Defeat of relief army": +5 IP, -1 IS
  • "Tactical retreat": -5 IS
  • "Military disaster": -10 IS

IP: Invasion Progress, after it reaches 100 the war is won.
IS: Invader Strength, determined by army size and treasury would increase odds of positive invasion events, but if it reaches 0 invasion ends in failure.



I assume that your inspiration for the invasion mechanic is the Yuan Dynasty, but it didn't even survive 100 years.

The entire "China invasion" scenario makes no sense. Why would winning a war against a Chinese invasion, which you provoked, make you the emperor of China? If that was the case then Vietnam or Korea would have ruled China centuries ago.

So disappointed that instead of making crusades less stupid they decided to create magical scenario content.
 
The entire "China invasion" scenario makes no sense. Why would winning a war against a Chinese invasion, which you provoked, make you the emperor of China? If that was the case then Vietnam or Korea would have ruled China centuries ago.

So disappointed that instead of making crusades less stupid they decided to create magical scenario content.

It's only abstracted to portray you're fighting in China. Because China is not on the map they can't fight in CHina.

So... And the Mongol history was magic it seems?
 
Is the invasion of China and claim for the throne exclusive to Buddhists and Tengri like in EU4, or can I be ambitious with Hindu, Muslim, or even Viking pretenders?
 
Is the invasion of China and claim for the throne exclusive to Buddhists and Tengri like in EU4, or can I be ambitious with Hindu, Muslim, or even Viking pretenders?

It's for everyone if you are in the right range.
 
Wow, this new AI behavior in wars will surely help stopping their stacks to go all the way back to their capital because they suffered some losses due to attrition...
 
If you put a dynasty member with a spouse and children in the throne of China will their (already had) children inherit the Dragon throne or will a random created son inherit?
A new child is generated.

Is the invasion of China and claim for the throne exclusive to Buddhists and Tengri like in EU4, or can I be ambitious with Hindu, Muslim, or even Viking pretenders?
No restrictions! :)
 
How is the name of the new dynasty, you installed in China, generated? Is it picked from a pool of random names (A foreign invasion naming its dynasty as the "Han Dynasty" is quite silly)? Can we name the newfounded dynasty?

Is the Paradox team updating the Sunset invasion (The other off-map great empire) with a similar window and event chains, or will that be left to modders?
 
questions

1- can we name the Dynasty name, from the branch that goes to rule china?

2- can we name the new Chinese empire name? like instead of Han like shown in the picture, we can name it whatever we want? in a menu similar to naming a newborn child? please say yes :C

3- not really a question but. WE WANNA PLAY THE PATCH! WE WANNA PLAY THE PATCH! WE WANNA PLAY THE PATCH! -council is discontent- :C
 
It's only abstracted to portray you're fighting in China. Because China is not on the map they can't fight in CHina.
Personally I think that the idea to simulate the invasion on your own soil portrays rather nicely the whole Mandate of Heaven thing. Because of the enormous authority of the Chinese Emperor, attacking China can be seen as something different from normal warfare. You dont attack the Dragon, you rather offend it simply claiming that not only he is not in position to demand a tribute from you but rather it is you, before whom he should bow. But the Dragon has the Mandate of Heaven, he is in such height he can not your the threat seriously, he is rather going to punish you for your arrogance. And as he fails, he simply looses the mandate and both the nobility and the simple folk of China see the old Dragon no longer capable of holding the mandate. And who is going to hold it? Whoever it is going to be, all the eyes look on you waiting for the answer.