• We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.
As a villager without any information, my fatal flaw is indecisiveness. I may make a good or very good case and then begin to doubt it because some other vague suspicion catches my eye. On the contrary, as a wolf or as a villager in the JL, I know exactly whom I do not want dead, and I often have a very good idea of whom I do want dead. Oftentimes, as a wolf, that includes wanting my own packmates dead, especially if I feel that they are being overly stupid and suspicious. As a wolf in this game, I would want Panzer to be killed, in such a way that I get credit for killing him. Panzer's death was all but certain, and I have never been one to squander my long-term survival for a stupid short-term gain that would ultimately end up taking down two wolves instead of one. As a wolf, I rarely save packmates, and in particular, I never save packmates who, in my estimation, do not deserve saving. I can say with some confidence that Panzer would have had my vote, quite possibly much earlier, had I been in his pack (or I might have kept him in line and prevented him from acting like an idiot in the first place).

No, what you see here is the honest doubt of a villager, who made an error in judgment yesterday. My behavior is entirely consistent with such uncertainty. I submit the above to your judgment, and I hope that you will realize that I am correct in this.
You do have a good point there. Though I wouldn't say Panzer was certain to die until late yesterday; and if you wanted to gain credit then making a single lynch would be better, so advocating the TIE might actually work for you.
Though I would still really like to know who you instructed Livingstone to break that TIE in Panzer's favour.
 
You do have a good point there. Though I wouldn't say Panzer was certain to die until late yesterday; and if you wanted to gain credit then making a single lynch would be better, so advocating the TIE might actually work for you.
Though I would still really like to know who you instructed Livingstone to break that TIE in Panzer's favour.

Check my votecount from earlier that day. I thought Dr. L was on Arkasas at the time, not on Panzer (or I actually had him down as being on both). Hence I thought we needed him to switch.
 
Check my votecount from earlier that day. I thought Dr. L was on Arkasas at the time, not on Panzer (or I actually had him down as being on both). Hence I thought we needed him to switch.
Oh yeah that is right; I noticed myself when continueing your count yesterday to make sure we had a TIE. Though it still doesn't make sense to have Livingstone snipe a TIE away; though perhaps I am misremembering. I really think Livingstone said you had asked him to snipe and you agreed, but since I didn't save the IRC logs before going to bed yesterday I cannot check.
 
Oh yeah that is right; I noticed myself when continueing your count yesterday to make sure we had a TIE. Though it still doesn't make sense to have Livingstone snipe a TIE away; though perhaps I am misremembering. I really think Livingstone said you had asked him to snipe and you agreed, but since I didn't save the IRC logs before going to bed yesterday I cannot check.

I did not ask him to snipe. I asked him to switch several minutes in advance.

Unfortunately, I did not save the logs either, so I cannot prove that statement.
 
I did not ask him to snipe. I asked him to switch several minutes in advance.

Unfortunately, I did not save the logs either, so I cannot prove that statement.
Yeah I see it would have made a TIE had Livingstone voted Ark and not Panzer; that is why we need more counters, since if one makes an error like you did it propagates and can mess things up.

Panzer Commader: 4
Rovsea [208]
Dr. Livingstone [219]
aedan777 [189 2kNikk -> 230 Dr. Livingstone -> 233]
Arkasas [213 Dr. Livingstone -> 255]

Arkasas: 3
2kNikk [181]
Dadarian [183]
Dr. Livingstone [193 Arkasas -> 202 unvote]

Rovsea: 2
EUROO7 [195 Dr. Livingstone -> 215 aedan777 -> 228 Dr. Livingstone -> 229 Panzer Commader -> 266]
madchemist [185 aedan777 -> 244 Arkasas -> 268]

Dr. Livingstone: 2
Panzer Commader [214]
al-Aziz [179 Arkasas -> 239 Panzer Commader -> 241]

aedan777: 1
Leondark [216]

EUROO7: 1
brovahkiin [217]

Wagonlitz: 1
Wagonlitz [211 Dr. Livingstone -> 245 Panzer Commader -> 247]

Fine.

Unvote DrL, Vote Rovsea
Panzer 4--Rovsea 3.

Dr. L, please vote Rovsea if you are here.
Had Livingstone been voting Ark and not Panzer him switching to Rovsea would have made the TIE.

Well I am the accuser so I must bring forth evidence and I don't have the logs anymore, so I think I will give you the benefit of the doubt. Though there are still things against you, but I am now far less certain you are a baddie as I were before.
 
or not? I can't count. If we want to lynch Rovs someone switch off Panzer.
Just noticed Aziz is subtly advocating a triple TIE; this comment was made just after MC had asked Livingstone to switch. Yes switching off Panzer would have lynched Rovsea, but she forgets to say it also would have lynched both Panzer and Ark thereby most likely costing us a day to parity. The comment was made with less than 5 minutes to deadline.
 
Believing as I do that the best defense is a good offense, I would like to propose a counter-candidate. (I have no objection to hanging Aziz, btw. Her relative silence so far seems rather typical of her wolf play, and I think she has a solid case against her.)

That candidate is 2kNikk. I know he said he'd be relatively inactive compared to his usual, but I really haven't seen much of anything from him, and what little I have hasn't really made me too confident in him. Nikk tends not to vote for his own packmates, and I think he did not vote Panzer at any point. Don't think he's voted for Aziz yet, either. I think he's simply been on Arkasas for more or less the entire game up until now. He's also way too quiet and way less interested in asking probing questions than before.

I'll put my money where my mouth is.

Vote 2kNikk
 
Believing as I do that the best defense is a good offense, I would like to propose a counter-candidate. (I have no objection to hanging Aziz, btw. Her relative silence so far seems rather typical of her wolf play, and I think she has a solid case against her.)

That candidate is 2kNikk. I know he said he'd be relatively inactive compared to his usual, but I really haven't seen much of anything from him, and what little I have hasn't really made me too confident in him. Nikk tends not to vote for his own packmates, and I think he did not vote Panzer at any point. Don't think he's voted for Aziz yet, either. I think he's simply been on Arkasas for more or less the entire game up until now. He's also way too quiet and way less interested in asking probing questions than before.

I'll put my money where my mouth is.

Vote 2kNikk


So a revenge vote then. Real villager move there.
 
So a revenge vote then. Real villager move there.

Not quite. I'm actually more reluctant than usual to vote people who are already voting me.

However, I thought you were suspiciously silent much earlier in the game, and up to now you haven't really done anything to allay those suspicions of mine. The fact that you are voting me right now is more or less irrelevant (except that I do know you are voting a villager by your vote, but that's not really an important part of my case at all).
 
Not quite. I'm actually more reluctant than usual to vote people who are already voting me.

However, I thought you were suspiciously silent much earlier in the game, and up to now you haven't really done anything to allay those suspicions of mine. The fact that you are voting me right now is more or less irrelevant (except that I do know you are voting a villager by your vote, but that's not really an important part of my case at all).

So you know I was busy because you posted as such. Yet you still try to use it to push a lynch. How do you think that looks?
 
Why should I care how that looks? The question is whether it's a good case or not. Convince me that it isn't.

You are using a false idea (2k isn't posting because he's wolf) when you just posted something different (2k told us he'd be busy).

I'm here now. I will be. No longer busy.

Can we get a front page update?
 
Not quite. I'm actually more reluctant than usual to vote people who are already voting me.

However, I thought you were suspiciously silent much earlier in the game, and up to now you haven't really done anything to allay those suspicions of mine. The fact that you are voting me right now is more or less irrelevant (except that I do know you are voting a villager by your vote, but that's not really an important part of my case at all).
Furthermore it is never a revenge vote if you have an at the time of the voting good case to back up your vote.
 
Where the votecount at yo
 
Colour count:


Night 1:
Cymsdale the seer is hunted.


Day 1:
kaisersohaib: 5
EUROO7 [90 Arkasas -> 114 (Valid unvote?) -> 140]
madchemist [81 Dr. Livingstone -> 141 kaisersohaib -> 160 Arkasas -> 163]
Dadarian [92 EUROO7 -> 106 Dr. Livingstone -> 142]
Dr. Livingstone [83 GermanKaiser -> 136 Panzer Commader -> 143 kaisersohaib -> 157 2kNikk -> 158]
Arkasas [86 madchemist -> 144]

Panzer Commader: 3
Rovsea [87]
Xarkan [103 alxeu -> 105]
Leondark [115]

2kNikk: 3
brovahkiin [93]
kaisersohaib [96]
al-Aziz [137 GermanKaiser -> 145]

Dr. Livingstone: 1
Panzer Commader [97]

Xarkan: 1
aedan777 [82]

EUROO7: 1
alxeu [85]

Arkasas: 1
2kNikk [84 Arkasas -> 132 Dr. Livingstone -> 156]

Not voted: 1
GermanKaiser []

kaisersohaib the villager is lynched.


Night 2:
Xarkan the villager is hunted.


Day 2:
Panzer Commader: 4
Rovsea [208]
aedan777 [189 2kNikk -> 230 Dr. Livingstone -> 233]
Arkasas [213 Dr. Livingstone -> 255]
Wagonlitz [211 Dr. Livingstone -> 245 Panzer Commader -> 247 Wagonlitz]

Rovsea: 4
EUROO7 [195 Dr. Livingstone -> 215 aedan777 -> 228 Dr. Livingstone -> 229 Panzer Commader -> 266]
madchemist [185 aedan777 -> 244 Arkasas -> 268]
al-Aziz [179 Arkasas -> 239 Panzer Commader -> 241 Dr. Livingstone -> 272]
Dr. Livingstone [193 Arkasas -> 202 unvote -> 219 Panzer Commader -> 288]

Arkasas: 2
2kNikk [181]
Dadarian [183]

Dr. Livingstone: 1
Panzer Commader [214]

aedan777: 1
Leondark [216]

EUROO7: 1
brovahkiin [217]

Not voted:
alxeu

Panzer Commader the wolf is lynched.
Rovsea the villager is lynched.


Night 3:
brovahkiin is hunted.
 
You just put up a weak arguement then backed off it, then this post.

You trying to help MC?
I think MC had a point which is why I see him as a less likely baddie now. With regard to the revenge vote thing then no I am not trying to help him; I am just tired of seeing people calling every vote cast against somebody who already votes the voter a revenge vote. There is a huge difference between just voting somebody because they voted you and then presenting a case to back up your vote; the case might be flawed, but it isn't a revenge vote.

Where the votecount at yo
al-Aziz: 3
aedan777 [308]
Arkasas [336]
EUROO7 [310 Leondark -> 317 Rovsea -> 340]

madchemist: 3
2kNikk [309]
Rovsea [334]
Dadarian [342 al-Aziz -> 345]

tucan: 1
madchemist [367]

Wagonlitz: 1
Wagonlitz [359]

Not voted: 4
al-Aziz []
Dr.Livingstone []
Panzer Commader []
Leondark []
 
Yes, people need to cool it with the REVENGEVOTEOMGWTF.


Unvote Aziz
Vote Wagonlitz


​Someone vote aziz.
 
Yes, people need to cool it with the REVENGEVOTEOMGWTF.


Unvote Aziz
Vote Wagonlitz


​Someone vote aziz.

Well, okay.

Vote Aziz
 
Thanks, doc!