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How many provinces can you have as maximum without any problems?
Depends on what you call a problem. Once you reach a certain number of provinces, which we have long since passed, there is a big where all provinces past that point have red borders (like those between countries) and sea provinces have no borders, but I have plans to mitigate both of those issues. Magna Terra has several hundred provinces as well and have had no problems with it.
 
Depends on what you call a problem. Once you reach a certain number of provinces, which we have long since passed, there is a big where all provinces past that point have red borders (like those between countries) and sea provinces have no borders, but I have plans to mitigate both of those issues. Magna Terra has several hundred provinces as well and have had no problems with it.

Any ETA on when you'll have this finished by? I'm really keen on using this map in a 450AD Mod I'm working on
 
I stumbled on this thread by pure chance. The map looks good!

I'm not sure a "Preicous Metal" tradegood would fit... I might be picky, but precious metal wasn't traded by merchants (you couldn't buy gold with gold), it was used by the State to pay for it's expenses. I'd see it more as a "Tax bonus" or something. I don't know if it's moddable, but I see why you want to add that resource. Here's a map containing all the gold and silver mines of the Roman era :
Roman_Empire_125.png
AFAIK, it's quite accurate. There were minor silver mines in Greece and Thessalonica as well, but I can't say if they were still in use in the timeframe. Finding a reliable map of other resources is quite difficult... But I'd like to see Olive Oil as a trading good, since it was very important around the Mediterranean (and less Wheat, please! Especially since wheat and olives were usually planted together on the same field).

Also, I'm not sure for the usefulness of the Arabian peninsula, they didn't play a major (or even minor) role during the time frame, but if you have a good idea of what to do with them, go for it! As for the Persian / Parthian area, I can try and look for maps with regions and cities under Alexander the Great and the first Diadochoi...

Anyway, good work!
 
Any ETA on when you'll have this finished by? I'm really keen on using this map in a 450AD Mod I'm working on
My goal is to have the base files (i.e. everything but history files) ready by Christmas, which can be used as the basis for other mods. Given my current busy work schedule and family engagements, this might be a bit of a stretch but I'll try :)

I stumbled on this thread by pure chance. The map looks good!

I'm not sure a "Preicous Metal" tradegood would fit... I might be picky, but precious metal wasn't traded by merchants (you couldn't buy gold with gold), it was used by the State to pay for it's expenses. I'd see it more as a "Tax bonus" or something. I don't know if it's moddable, but I see why you want to add that resource.
Thanks Scipio, that's a very good point! I'll remove the precious metals resource and represent them with province modifiers instead. I don't intend on adding too many new resources in the basic map mod (EI Map Mod, or EIMM), but when I work on the full mod (EI Total Conversion, or EITC) that will be one of the many things I intend on addressing. That map with the gold/silver mines is also very welcome!

Also, I'm not sure for the usefulness of the Arabian peninsula, they didn't play a major (or even minor) role during the time frame, but if you have a good idea of what to do with them, go for it! As for the Persian / Parthian area, I can try and look for maps with regions and cities under Alexander the Great and the first Diadochoi...
Thanks, that'd be much appreciated! I've got a few maps for Persia and not many for Central Asia, but if you have any good maps for either then please let me know :) As for Arabia, it's mostly just included because the map was going to be expanded in that direction for India anyway and there were a number of important trade ports along the coasts. The inner provinces of Arabia are going to be unconquerable, which we decided would look nicer than having a big blob of Terra Incognita in the middle of the map. Those provinces will serve a very similar purpose to the Wasteland provinces of EU3.
 
Personally I think a PTI blob would be much better then unconquerable provinces, not to mention easier to implement (how are you going to make them unconquerable, can't think of any way apart from events that decolonize them if colonized but that would be much more work than it is worth to function properly so). Really I think the Wasteland provinces as was added in EU3 is completely and utterly inferior to PTI in all ways imaginable (have played DW when visiting my brother so I do know how it looks, basically PTI looks much better especially since you can't have the land anyway) except in that I assume that due to already having the terrain of those areas adding provinces there would be easier for modders. To get back on track, the only advantage of unconquerable provinces to PTI is that the provinces can spawn barbarians, but the arabian interior is not one place that should spawn lots and lots of barbarian hordes (any barbarian activity from there is small enough to work by events as those in the game for many provinces bordering the edge of the map).

In short, the Arabian interior should be TI, it is not only easier to have it that way it is the better looking alternative as well. So please, let it be TI. Not unsightly provinces that are only there to spawn barbarians and waste men of anyone foolish enough to traverse them, but good old Terra Incognita.
 
Thanks Lofman, but I disagree - I think the wasteland provinces in EU3 look a lot better than the blobs of white (or black, in this case). I would much rather have empty terrain in the middle of a map instead of blackness. (As an aside, this also gives me the opportunity to implement a feature that a number of people have requested for HTTT/DW: if you control all of the coastal Arabian provinces, then an event can fire that gives the central provinces to you as well, if you so choose - just for those of us who like "neat" borders ;))

As for implementation, I'm planning to set the barbarian power at 2.1, then simply use a province modifier that lowers the barbarian growth rate and spawn chance so that the numbers never grow and never spawn barbarians. It could also be used to increase movement cost several hundred times over, so that it would take many decades for units to even enter the province. If, for whatever reason, the province actually does spawn a barbarian unit, it wouldn't be hard to make an event that bumps it back up again before the province can be colonised (since it would take many years for any barbarian army to leave the province, during which time the province would be uncolonisable).

I haven't tested this solution extensively, so if it does end up failing then I can always revert back to PTI :)
 
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In short, the Arabian interior should be TI, it is not only easier to have it that way it is the better looking alternative as well. So please, let it be TI. Not unsightly provinces that are only there to spawn barbarians and waste men of anyone foolish enough to traverse them, but good old Terra Incognita.

Well personally I think PTI is ugly. Also, the barbarian spawn thing would be easily mitigated by modifiers that reduce spawn chance and horde uprising chance.

EDIT: Oops, it appears I was beaten to the answer.
 
I see, let us agree to disagree (for me preferring wasteland or equivalent over PTI seems like preferring the aesthetics of Garden Gnomes over Classical Statues (although those where in ancient times painted and looked a bit different so perhaps it can be understandable)). Though personally I think that if a province is there it should be possible (though not necessarily easy nor profitable and therefore basically not worth the effort) to conquer it. If it can't be conquered it should be PTI. Although the colormap_hires might actually be really useful for once, if one goes with oldmap style look (have been thinking about trying to do something like that, but it always seems like too much work for something that have so little effect, as one mainly use the political map anyway) one could add interesting touches to the unconquerable provinces that really should be PTI so that it looks decent.
 
Fair enough :) I might try to make the map more flexible so I could easily release a PTI version if there is enough demand for it.

As for the colormap_hires idea, that is a brilliant thought. I work in a shop that sells a few styles of world globes (I often spend work time staring at the globes, imagining my current empire represented on the map...) and the antique style globe is by far the best-looking of the bunch, IMHO (link). As you say, though, it would be a ton of work for relatively little gain...but it's a neat idea.
 
So, as promised, I did a quick search for good and detailed Alexandrian and Parthian maps. I found a few. Here's one showing mountains and deserts, explaining why, in the next ones, there are huge areas without cities nearby. Wastelands or PTI? You decide! :p
empire-of-alexander-the-great-large-map.jpg
Here the most complete one I found for Alexander's empire (with greek names). The only problem I have with this one is that many Alexandreia cities are not precised (i.e Alexandreia Kandahar shown as only Alexandreia).
alexandros323nbc.jpg
And here are a few more Alexandreian maps :
alexanderempire.jpg 342alexanderthegreatmap.gif hellenistic-world-picture-from-house-of-ptolemy-website.gif
And here's a Parthian one (yes, it's a little later in the timeframe, but you might need it) :
parthian_empire_map.gif

All the Seleucid empire maps I've found are useless for your project...
 
Thanks Scipio :)

Also, minor update: it's not looking likely that the skeleton files will be done by Christmas, unfortunately. Being a retail worker means that I'm left with almost no free time. I will still try my best, but don't hold your breath.
 
As far as the Arabia issue goes they were hired as mercenaries and used in the Ptolemaic Civil Wars, as well as with Herod when the Parthians invaded. I would include the coastal provinces as tribe minors, as the capture of those towns could allow control over the trade to India through taxation; which would be important if for example Cleopatra decided to abandon European issues and expand southward. This would have kept her out of roman affairs (intentional pun :)
 
That was the plan :) The interior Arabic provinces will be impassable, but the coastal provinces will have tribal minors that can be conquered or played for an interesting tribal campaign outside of Europe.
 
That was the plan :) The interior Arabic provinces will be impassable, but the coastal provinces will have tribal minors that can be conquered or played for an interesting tribal campaign outside of Europe.
Weren't there some Arab kingdoms as well, such as Ma'in, Hadramut and Saba?
 
Those are in truth the tribal minors Cheexsta spoke of along with a few historical 'minors' not as well known.
Oh I got that, but I simply wondered whether their governments should be monarchies or tribal, I've always had the impression that they were of the more civilized kind.
 
Oh I got that, but I simply wondered whether their governments should be monarchies or tribal, I've always had the impression that they were of the more civilized kind.

From: http://www.edwardgoldsmith.org/897/the-disintegration-of-pre-islamic-society-in-north-arabia/

Goldsmith said:
First, however, let us see how North Arabian society was organised in these pre-Islamic times. Surprisingly enough, the pre-Islamic city was very much like the Hellenic city of antiquity. Its population was divided up into tribes, which in turn were sub-divided into clans. The more important of these lived in the centre of the city from where they directed matters of public importance. They constituted, in fact, a political aristocracy. The less influential clans inhabited the area towards the periphery of the city.
The city itself was self-governing and was the seat of a municipal religion. Power was in the hands of a council of elders called the Djamaa, an assembly made up of all the adult males capable of bearing arms, which was the real sovereign body. Occasionally chiefs, (referred to as Amin or Kabir) were elected but these did not appear to wield any absolute power.
Decisions were taken unanimously or at least with the general consent of the assembly. The latter possessed legislative, administrative and judicial powers and its decisions were implemented by the heads of the clans and of the individual families. To enable them to do this, the latter could levy fines and had the power to exile those who refused to obey the traditional law. This, as we know, is the most severe penalty that can be meted out in simple, stable societies. The exiled man excluded from all public ceremonies and from his own family and community was reduced to the status of a despised isolate: a fate worse than death.
The institutions of self-government, according to Lammens [1] were in fact very highly developed. At Mecca there was a sort of senate called the Gar-Al-Nadwa, which met when important decisions had to be taken.

It goes on, I'd say either tribal federation or kingdom; but the whole idea of colonization by 50 civ or above provinces is silly. For more realistic gameplay it should be handled by event or done at high stability, maybe.

The question then is what do you define as making a province civilized? The civilization of the cities may not extend to the countryside, so maybe a "Civilizing Influences" modifier that gives +.02 Civ spread in the capital until 55?
 
When I wrote 'civilized' I was more leaning onto that they would not have a tribal government in game, as I had the impression that the rulers were either elected as in Greek cities (republics) or were hereditary (monarchies).

But with that article in mind a tribal federation might be more accurate surely.