Crusader Kings 2: A Game of Thrones mod adding massive eastern continent

[Velorian]

Besides the "lost civilization" thing, there really are not a lot of similarities at all. And who are the Atlantean refugees who then proceeded to conquer all of Europe? It's not much of a similarity at all except "part of a landmass disappeared a long time ago."

Well, according to the semi-occult theories the Nazi thought up the "Nordic/Germanic" race was descended from Atlanteans. Valyrians are even paler (at least hairwise, though they also have a "special" eye color) than the rest of Westeros, whether intended or not I see a comparison there.

 

[takedown47]

Hey Paradox, you should pay those guys who made Game of Thrones mod.

 

[DCyDe]

Hey Paradox, you should pay those guys who made Game of Thrones mod.

heh, paying them for using a licence they do not own? I realy would like to see how many millions HBO&Cyanide would sue PI for, if that would happen ^^

 

[EvilSoeren]

Cyanide, that name creates a bad feeling in the stomach.

 

[Manbearpig]

heh, paying them for using a licence they do not own? I realy would like to see how many millions HBO&Cyanide would sue PI for, if that would happen ^^

Considering their response to "How do you feel about being the most pirated TV show with 4.3 million downloads per episode?" was basically that they don't care, I doubt this would bother them.

 

[JonStryker]

Considering their response to "How do you feel about being the most pirated TV show with 4.3 million downloads per episode?" was basically that they don't care, I doubt this would bother them.

Don't you see a difference between the two?

 

[Grubnessul]

I thought the meereenese knot was solved last book at the end, gosh, I hope this doesn't mean we get innumerable chapters set in Essos again.

Please let it be. I really miss the politics of AGoT & ACoK

 

[Jon873]

Yippee.

 

[Fashbinder]

Might have arrived late to the "GRRM Copy's everything" discussion, but I propose that it could be mere coincidence?


21-04-2013 07:44

http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum...The-Old-Gods-with-your-very-own-in-game-event
14-05-2013 09:55

 

[rashtrakut]

Besides the "lost civilization" thing, there really are not a lot of similarities at all. And who are the Atlantean refugees who then proceeded to conquer all of Europe? It's not much of a similarity at all except "part of a landmass disappeared a long time ago."

As I said..it is not literal..but master civilization..cataclysmic event that leads to collapse.

The Targs were not refugees. They ruled Dragonstone as governors for Valyria and basically stayed out of the ensuing war that led to the formation of the free cities. They waited a century before invading Westeros.

 

[grisamentum]

As I said..it is not literal..but master civilization..cataclysmic event that leads to collapse.

You obviously don't know much about the legend of Atlantis. Athens supposedly defeated the Atlantean Empire. This is in Plato, where we first read about Atlantis. The first thing we know about it is that it is a defeated empire that failed to conquer Athens because of Athens' superior virtue. Atlantis is subsequently destroyed by natural disaster.

The Targs were not refugees. They ruled Dragonstone as governors for Valyria and basically stayed out of the ensuing war that led to the formation of the free cities. They waited a century before invading Westeros.

Nevertheless, when did Atlantis successfully conquer all of Europe? They didn't; their invasion of Athens was a failure.

 

[grisamentum]

Hey Paradox, you should pay those guys who made Game of Thrones mod.

They can't, and honestly, Paradox shouldn't even be giving AGoT this kind of official recognition. The C&D+takedown notice is probably coming any week now.

 

[Darkgamma]

They can't, and honestly, Paradox shouldn't even be giving AGoT this kind of official recognition. The C&D+takedown notice is probably coming any week now.

George said he doesn't like derivative works, but won't actively work against them.
He's the copyright holder, so, no, no C&D any time soon.

 

[Calantyr]

Every fantasy borrows from ours in one way or the other, however many writers try to make something special out of it.
GRRM doesn't try much. However, that is the point: Westeros is supposed to be as similar to our world as possible and be plot-focused rather than lore-focused.

This.

If the world was vastly different GRRM would need to explain how everything works, and how the expectations of the various cultures are wrong. The books would be larger, take longer to be written, and detract from the storytelling. It COULD be a sign that GRRM is unimaginative, or it could be a compromise because the author is a realist who doesn't want to spend 10 years on each book. It's something every fantasy author has to deal with. Do I make the world more unique? Because if I do I then need to explain the uniqueness.

But the map... yeah. I create fantasy worlds myself, maps included, and GRRM's one seems poor. But he's an author, not a cartographer.

 

[DarkReborn]

I do prefer worlds of fantasy that are closer and derivate a lot from ours, the whole point of telling a story is that you can identify with any of the characters, if this were "pure" fantasy, with for example... starfish people who think in starfish language and starfish concepts, we wouldn't get a damn think and the story wouldn't sell. From a geoghrapic, cultural or religious viewpoint, GRRM's work may be dull (for some, I do happen to love caricatures of cultures from our world), but the stories he tells and the character he's created are absolutely superb.

 

[CzokletMuss]

I do prefer worlds of fantasy that are closer and derivate a lot from ours, the whole point of telling a story is that you can identify with any of the characters, if this were "pure" fantasy, with for example... starfish people who think in starfish language and starfish concepts, we wouldn't get a damn think and the story wouldn't sell. From a geoghrapic, cultural or religious viewpoint, GRRM's work may be dull (for some, I do happen to love caricatures of cultures from our world), but the stories he tells and the character he's created are absolutely superb.

Yup, story and characters are what makes this books interesting, world is just a background.
And if you like fantasy parodies of our world, you will love Terry Pratchett (Discworld) or Andrzej Sapkowski (Witcher)

 

[Velorian]

You obviously don't know much about the legend of Atlantis. Athens supposedly defeated the Atlantean Empire. This is in Plato, where we first read about Atlantis. The first thing we know about it is that it is a defeated empire that failed to conquer Athens because of Athens' superior virtue. Atlantis is subsequently destroyed by natural disaster.



Nevertheless, when did Atlantis successfully conquer all of Europe? They didn't; their invasion of Athens was a failure.

Well it's not exactly a carbon copy Rome-clone either... What are the comparisons anyway? Fallen empire which used to rule most of the world, left infrastructure behind and used slavery. The culture is different, their armies were different and their demise was way different, they didn't fall to slowly increasing decadence and corruption like the real thing, they were destroyed by something akin to an apocalypse (far more similar to Atlantis). Not to mention that real world Rome never founded a new empire after the fall.

Comparisons can easily be made to Rome, but just as easily for Atlantis. There are all sorts of theories for the fall of Atlantis, it might as easily have been divine intervention or occult rituals gone bad for all we know, and the mystery about the demise of Valyria in the books is similar to the speculation about Atlantis in the west.

The books obviously takes inspiration from all sorts of real cultures, borrowing heavily, but none of them are complete clones...

 

[tompalmer]

Which is unprofessional (I guess) but interesting - since he didn't know what he wants to do with this in the end, this is more like AAR than a coherent narration. Think about it - he created characters who have to act accordingly to their situation and objectives. This "the story writes itself" and he doesn't have that much freedom because he didn't have the vision of the whole thing in the beginning.
Anyway, does anyone know why is it taking so long to finish the next book? I've heard that this is due to some plot problem (aka "this doesn't make sense! what have I done?"), is it true?

He knows the end, I think he only misses what lays between

heh, paying them for using a licence they do not own? I realy would like to see how many millions HBO&Cyanide would sue PI for, if that would happen ^^

We request no money, we just ask paradox to add some features and fix bugs (wich they do atm), sadly it's becoming hard to model things for Essos because Medieval era is very different. But we will find a way, and Wiz's inclusion in the ck2 dev team is a good move for everyone.
We would LOVE to have a talk with Paradox and submit a list of features/tools we need, but we're not the only mod and the obvious priority is to improve vanilla

They can't, and honestly, Paradox shouldn't even be giving AGoT this kind of official recognition. The C&D+takedown notice is probably coming any week now.

If we die, we die. But first, we live.
*romantic song*
Anyway, we crossed the "paradox atmosphere" in december with our 3 nominations for "mod of the year" , and also have a subreddit linked with HBO show and grrm network (non counting westeros.org).
The team's policy has always been : do anything but don't mail Martin, maybe others did.
If we receive any letter or mail, we will publish it, promise

 

[rashtrakut]

You obviously don't know much about the legend of Atlantis. Athens supposedly defeated the Atlantean Empire. This is in Plato, where we first read about Atlantis. The first thing we know about it is that it is a defeated empire that failed to conquer Athens because of Athens' superior virtue. Atlantis is subsequently destroyed by natural disaster.



Nevertheless, when did Atlantis successfully conquer all of Europe? They didn't; their invasion of Athens was a failure.

For the ocean there was at that time navigable; for in front of the mouth which you Greeks call, as you say, 'the pillars of Heracles,' there lay an island which was larger than Libya and Asia together; and it was possible for the travelers of that time to cross from it to the other islands, and from the islands to the whole of the continent over against them which encompasses that veritable ocean. For all that we have here, lying within the mouth of which we speak, is evidently a haven having a narrow entrance; but that yonder is a real ocean, and the land surrounding it may most rightly be called, in the fullest and truest sense, a continent. Now in this island of Atlantis there existed a confederation of kings, of great and marvelous power, which held sway over all the island, and over many other islands also and parts of the continent.

Sounds a lot like the Valyrian domination of Essos. Valyria never tried for whatever reason to invade Westeros, so the fact that Atlantis never controlled Europe actually helps the comparison.

But at a later time there occurred portentous earthquakes and floods, and one grievous day and night befell them, when the whole body of your warriors was swallowed up by the earth, and the island of Atlantis in like manner was swallowed up by the sea and vanished; wherefore also the ocean at that spot has now become impassable and unsearchable, being blocked up by the shoal mud which the island created as it settled down.

Sounds an awful like the Doom of Valyria to me, particularly since there are references in later books that sailing to Valyria is dangerous and may be impossible. The fate of Valyria is a lot closer to Atlantis than Rome...Rome after all survived as a city. Now it is not exact since Atlantis and noted in the first clip was allegedly a huge continent and Essos itself did not go down.

Now we don't know what caused the Doom - there is a reference of unknown reliability in Book 4 - but again Martin does not copy history whole sale. He draws inspiration from true events to weave into his narrative. Now there are similarities to Rome and other empires as well...but when I heard of the Doom of Valyria the first thing that came to mind was Atlantis.

He has admitted that Lannister and Stark are loosely derived from Lancaster and York - though obviously they are not carbon copies.

 

[CzokletMuss]

He has admitted that Lannister and Stark are loosely derived from Lancaster and York - though obviously they are not carbon copies.

Again my 2 cents; but doing this

Lancaster -> Lan**ster
York -> ***rk

is hardly creative