Another write-off?

[SeekTruthFromFx]

If your land is covered in forests, as the IGN reviewer was talking about from their playthrough, then a typical player would try to figure out how to remove those forests. This was not a hidden mechanic, it uses the domain powers just like almost everything else in the game. And clearly they found the later domain power (deforest) that does this, I don't understand how they missed the earlier power that does this same thing (clear cut). These are very basic mechanics.

If there is a technology called Deforestation, players are rightly going to assume that it is required for deforestation. That is the plain and unambiguous meaning of the word.

Clear cut is available in the tech tree, how did you miss it unless you never looked at what all the techs grant across multiple playthroughs?

If you take Age of Conquest, you don't have the option to research Machinery. So in that case, I don't think Clear Cut is available at all. As far I can see, you do have to wait until Deforestation before you can remove forests, don't you? If so what Leana Hafer reported could well have been accurate based on multiple playthroughs.

And also, in the demo, you could only see the techs for the ages that you have taken. If you always take Conquest, then how do you know what's available in the other Ages? This is again a failure of the game, not the reviewer. People should not be expected to have to unbundle .asset files to know how to take basic actions. We now have the wiki, but that was not an option for reviewers.

 

[Potoroo]

Well the IGN review exaggerated the forest removing aspect, they said that you couldn't remove forests until Age 9 (the Age of Information), when in fact you can do it in Age 5. This is still too late IMO, which can make starts in forests very difficult. But the IGN review was just flat out wrong, which shows how little they knew about the game they were supposed to be reviewing (this was just one of their many incorrect statements in the review).

FWIW, IGN have updated their review on YouTube. Their pinned comment reads:

A previous version of this review mistakenly said you cannot clear forests until the Information Age. In fact, you can unlock forestry before then, but the tech system is confusing and makes it easy to miss. It has been updated to remove that section. We apologize for the error.

 

[Praetorian44]

A quick skim of the age decks seems to indicate that it's possible to miss the Age 5 clear cut ability if you go through the Crisis age. (Age of Intolerance).
I might be wrong though; can someone else confirm?

So I've looked into this, the clear cut ability is available in every age, including the Age of Tolerance. It's not always granted by the same tech, and in the victory Age of Conquest it unlocks immediately, but it's always available.

Then that says a lot about the UX design of the game being poor, if the reviewer couldn't figure out how to do these things.

I don't disagree with the UX being poorly designed, but I disagree that finding the clear cut dominion power is difficult. In my very first campaign I spawned in area surrounded by forests, thus one of my primary goals was to remove those forests. Where the game failed was that I was never told when this ability would unlock, as you can't see future tech trees, and it failed in making the clear cut power unlock so late. However, the first step once a new age tech tree was unlocked was to go through all the techs and the benefits they provide, in order to select which tech to research first, as well as which 3-4 techs I would get to unlock the next age. Thus in that first campaign, getting the clear cut was my first priority once I reached Age 5. Not bothering to check all the techs and their benefits when reaching a new age is not a failure on the game's part, it's a failure by the player.

If there is a technology called Deforestation, players are rightly going to assume that it is required for deforestation. That is the plain and unambiguous meaning of the word.


If you take Age of Conquest, you don't have the option to research Machinery. So in that case, I don't think Clear Cut is available at all. As far I can see, you do have to wait until Deforestation before you can remove forests, don't you? If so what Leana Hafer reported could well have been accurate based on multiple playthroughs.

And also, in the demo, you could only see the techs for the ages that you have taken. If you always take Conquest, then how do you know what's available in the other Ages? This is again a failure of the game, not the reviewer. People should not be expected to have to unbundle .asset files to know how to take basic actions. We now have the wiki, but that was not an option for reviewers.

But you wouldn't even know there was a tech called deforestation until after you reached Age 9. That doesn't explain why you wouldn't be looking for a way to remove forests before then. Not that it matters though, because you're wrong about clear cut not being available in the Age of Conquest. While the Machinery tech is not in that age, clear cut is unlocked immediately as soon as that age starts. This is shown on the age tutorial screen that pops up when you first enter the age. All other the other Age 5 periods have a tech that unlocks clear cut, so regardless of what age you get, you'll always have access to this ability. So no, IGN's review was not accurate on this, as well as many other things.

FWIW, IGN have updated their review on YouTube. Their pinned comment reads:

Well at least they've acknowledged their mistake.

 

[Mauer]

Then that says a lot about the UX design of the game being poor, if the reviewer couldn't figure out how to do these things.

Although I don't find forests a problem, even if we weren't able to remove them at all, this is true for many things in the game: Dominion powers, government powers, culture powers, all blend into a mess that is easy to confuse sometimes.

 

[tommynt]

I proly have more hours in all kind of civilision games as all posters together and still find some game mechanics confussing.
Confussing game mechanics might be part of bad reviews ..
Why are there 3 different kind of "cities"?

Unique flavour?? There is NO explantion on the 3 different types.
Also that basiclly the first 5 hours of the game you only fight barbs instead ai/player kills a bit the fun.

 

[Olden Weiss]

My thought process is, why would I buy Millennia when I could buy Humankind, and why would I buy Humankind when I could just buy Civ.

Because this game does things Humankind doesn't do, and Humankind does things Civ doesn't do, and you prefer a game with those things. Different games are loaded with different features for different tastes. This myth of "Well there's a best-in-genre so why buy anything else?" is, well, a myth. It really comes down to taste. I'm not about to argue that Millennia is a more polished product than Civ 6, but personally, I enjoy it way more than I ever enjoyed a Civ game. So for me, Millennia was worth a buy. Might not be for you.

I proly have more hours in all kind of civilision games as all posters together and still find some game mechanics confussing.
Confussing game mechanics might be part of bad reviews ..
Why are there 3 different kind of "cities"?

Unique flavour?? There is NO explantion on the 3 different types.

Are you referring to cities vs. towns vs. outposts? Or perhaps cities vs. vassals vs. outposts? In either case, the tutorial clues you in on the difference when you first see each type. In short:

• Cities are the capitals of regions and are where you build your capital buildings. They're the most like their counterparts in other 4X games. Lose the capital, lose the region, so this is what you want to protect.
• Towns are smaller settlements within a region that feed back to the capital. Their purpose is threefold: 1, to expand your borders more quickly; you get a huge boost to expansion progress into hexes adjacent to a town. 2, to act as a deployment point; you can choose to raise your new units here instead of the capital, letting them serve as a sort of buffer to your capital. 3, to give adjacency bonuses to worked resources according to the town's specialization; IE, a farming town giving a boost to food output from farm hexes.
• Outposts exist primarily to mark out territory quickly and serve as waypoints between distant cities. They can also be used as trading posts, yielding resources within their domain, and/or as fortifications, protecting important routes. But they don't allow for any capital buildings the way city capitals do, and I'm pretty sure that on their own they don't provide any income either.
• Vassals are just regions you don't directly control. They're "yours" and give you tribute based on their prosperity value, but they grow very slowly and you don't directly control how. The upside is that they don't add to unrest or cost Culture upkeep, like regular regions do.

 

[Fanstar1]

Enthusiasm has nothing to do with it.

You cited potatomcwhiskey's several long videos as evidence that the game is good.
I pointed out that he was paid by Paradox to make those videos.

it's also worth noting that while Potatomcwhiskey was pretty hyped for Humankind also during the lead-up to that game's launch, he has lately been very negative in his posting regarding it, like with this Tweet Thread. Early impressions are often given with the assumption that certain issues that are encountered will either be ironed out on launch, or shortly after launch.

 

[tommynt]

Or perhaps cities vs. vassals vs. outposts?

Well thank you for your explanation. And I found out that after some time of gameplay myself.
Still the system is not "intuitive" - and this thread is about if people like a game.
Isnt it said that first 5 sec to meet some1 decide if you fall in love wiht someone?
Well first 5 hours of this game dont make you want fall in love with.
You want intuitive self explaining gameplay elements.
Instead of doing 4x (which the game is labled) - 90% your time spent is fighting barbs.

The building part is way too slow compared to science progression.
You can have like 1 "real" city in age 4 or something? Feels wrong.

I am however still giving it a try and the ressource system IS an improvment over similar games.
Fighting barbs all over and AI acting very weired IS NOT.

 

[InsidiousMage]

it's also worth noting that while Potatomcwhiskey was pretty hyped for Humankind also during the lead-up to that game's launch, he has lately been very negative in his posting regarding it, like with this Tweet Thread. Early impressions are often given with the assumption that certain issues that are encountered will either be ironed out on launch, or shortly after launch.

He's also not all in on Millennia.

 

[LordIII3]

I really Hope this Game won't be abbandoned as it is already really fun to Play in single Player. And it hast just so many ways to get expanded, that i really Hope this Game will have a Long lifetime.

And by the way, If I remember correctly, stellaris also didn't had the best Steam reviews on launch

 

[FindFloppies]

I really Hope this Game won't be abbandoned as it is already really fun to Play in single Player. And it hast just so many ways to get expanded, that i really Hope this Game will have a Long lifetime.

And by the way, If I remember correctly, stellaris also didn't had the best Steam reviews on launch

Usually the best Paradox games take a DLC or three before they really shine. HOI4, for example.

 

[TehJumpingJawa]

So I've looked into this, the clear cut ability is available in every age, including the Age of Tolerance. It's not always granted by the same tech, and in the victory Age of Conquest it unlocks immediately, but it's always available.

Interesting; I wonder why the Age of Intolerance data file makes no mention of the engineering clear cut power being unlocked yet the others Age 5 alternatives do?
Are the crisis ages implemented slightly differently?

As I said, I only skimmed it; haven't looked into precisely how it's all interconnected.

 

[Praetorian44]

Interesting; I wonder why the Age of Intolerance data file makes no mention of the engineering clear cut power being unlocked yet the others Age 5 alternatives do?
Are the crisis ages implemented slightly differently?

As I said, I only skimmed it; haven't looked into precisely how it's all interconnected.

I'm just guessing here, but I think it's because the Age of Intolerance uses the same tech from the Age of Renaissance that grants the clear cut power, which is the Machinery technology. So perhaps it just borrows Machinery from the Renaissance file. While the Age of Conquest automatically grants clear cut as soon as you enter the age, and the Age of Discovery grants clear cut with a completely different tech, which is Technical Engineering.

 

[TehJumpingJawa]

I'm just guessing here, but I think it's because the Age of Intolerance uses the same tech from the Age of Renaissance that grants the clear cut power, which is the Machinery technology. So perhaps it just borrows Machinery from the Renaissance file. While the Age of Conquest automatically grants clear cut as soon as you enter the age, and the Age of Discovery grants clear cut with a completely different tech, which is Technical Engineering.

   <!-- IMPORTED TECH -->
      <ACard><Import>TECHAGE5-NAVIGATION</Import></ACard>
      <ACard><Import>TECHAGE5-HEAVYMACHINERY</Import></ACard>

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[dbruser]

He's also not all in on Millennia.
View attachment 1104355

To be fair, Humankind removed/trashed a lot of stuff in it's demo, and replaced them with inferior versions. They also failed to substantially fix it's problems. Whereas original civ V, civ VI and old world have substantially improved their games on launch, humankind failed to do so. Hopefully Millenia follows in Firaxis' footsteps instead of Amplitude

 

[ObssesedNuker]

He's also not all in on Millennia.
View attachment 1104355

Well, for a price tag of 40 bucks, an initial couple hundred hours of content isn't actually that bad. It's not the "can easily get a thousand+" that the paradox core can get, but it's still pretty successful.

Do agree the game needs some serious polish and content, but PDX games at launch always need that.

 

[SeekTruthFromFx]

Confussing game mechanics might be part of bad reviews ..
Why are there 3 different kind of "cities"?

Unique flavour?? There is NO explantion on the 3 different types.

I think part of the problem here is that players keep talking about "cities". I respect the fact that you put that word in quotation marks and I was guilty of doing using the word myself until someone on Reddit pointed out the problem. Millennia doesn't have "cities", it has Regions, and we are creating have all kinds of problems (like confusing the Capitals, Towns, and Outposts, and placing Capitals too close together) for ourselves and new players as long as well keep writing about "cities".

Also that basiclly the first 5 hours of the game you only fight barbs instead ai/player kills a bit the fun.

Fair comment.

 

[Yonael]

The game is super fun and I can't stop playing it. There's definitely a learning curve so I can see why people who only play once don't understand it and fail.

 

[Mnoracle]

The game is excellent in many respects but it does have horrible presentation, so I'm not surprised by negative reviews. But for me personally it's best 4x mechanics wise.
The UI, AI and in general graphics are pretty bad though.
So I am pretty sad that such a good game may tank due to superfluous issues.

 

[FindFloppies]

Yeah, for example, it took me a while before I noticed you could queue a second production item, or set up a prompt for some of the other powers when enough points had built up. Not very visible.