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A BETA-preview Barbarossa AAR

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Singleton Mosby said:
About my earlier comment....read an article yesterday in which a writer claimed the war was 75% won by the US, pissed me off as you can imagine. Ok, they did have a fair share in the war but nothing compared to the USSR, the stuborn Brits, the Chinese and so on.

Reading the earlier comment on the 1941 counteroffensives being conducted with Mathildas and Hurricanes the claim gets another blow.

Guess this is the everlasting battle in history of fact vs. truth like my fellow Dutchmen all claiming to be with the resistance while in fact I felt ashamed reading accounts of German soldiers in Holland. Nothing happend, they could walk through the countryside, alone, unarmed....even in '43 and '44. The Dutch coloberated and only a handfull performed some resistance work, most if it stupidly at that. Nothing like the heroic Polish.

Another example being the May 40 airlanding in Holland....Dutch army claimed it destroyed over 50% of the German planes....you should read German accounts.....

Enough of my rambling, time for another update.
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The math to arrive at 75% goes something like this:

2 primary Axis belligerents - Germany and Japan

Japan was essentially defeated by the US alone. = 50%

Germany was essentially defeated by the US and USSR. = 25%

Added together 75%.

Now that said, is it a crude formula. Yes. But the 2 most important factors working against Germany and Japan were 1. US industrial might and 2. Soviet manpower. When the US and the USSR entered the war it was more than likely that Germany and Japan would lose.

I've always thought that in the US we underplay the contribution of the USSR (because of post-war fears and anxieties) as I am sure was done by the USSR as well in regards to America's contribution to the Soviet war effort.

On the point of Mathildas and Hurricanes in the 41 counteroffensives, I doubt the UK would have sent that equipment to the USSR had they not been guaranteed of replacements from the US. Would they have sent that equipment in 1940? I doubt it. When the US entered the war, the UK knew that much of its needs would be met by the US, so it could send material to the USSR that was urgently needed while the US geared up to begin pumping out the replacements.
 
Ex Mudder said:
The US didn't win WW II - it would have been lost before we joined if not for the courage of the Brits and Russians (and everyone else fighting with them). However, the entry of the US into both World Wars did tip the balance of both world wars and allowed victory instead of a bitter peace on both fronts.

Some people think that tipping the balance = the US was responsible for winning it, unfortunately. And most Yanks have only the foggiest view of the world outside their borders.
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And that would be true of most people including Europeans,Russians etc. Lets not start bringing personal opinions/dislikes and keep the attacks out of it.
 
Please keep this thread on-topic.

The thread is intended to show us an AAR of an early beta version of HOI-3, and to allow our posters to make comments and ask questions about this early version of the game.

Save the map issues and the nationalistic pissing-contest for some OTHER thread.

Thank you.
 
Good Soldier Schiek (excuse spelling) ? for the lyrics ?

Ooops, pretty sure that counts as on topic :confused:

[edit] confused icon should be on both of the above lines. Note to self, "shuss" ;-)
 
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blue emu said:
Please keep this thread on-topic.

The thread is intended to show us an AAR of an early beta version of HOI-3, and to allow our posters to make comments and ask questions about this early version of the game.

Save the map issues and the nationalistic pissing-contest for some OTHER thread.

Thank you.
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100% agree.....but saying "Fritz" in an official beta-AAR could also be seen as some kind of offend to us Germans :(


But I like to read this AAR. It gives me a very deep sight into the good complexiness of starting Barabarossa !!!
To handle all the units over such a wide frontline is definately a real challange where you have to make a lot of mistakes.....so the replayability seems to be much much higher than in HOI2
 
Jos de trol said:
so do you have the feeling you are being pummelled and might lose or do you know already that you'll win it eventually?
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I have the feeling atm I will win. Stabilize the front in late 41, make some first counters in 42 and walk over the Germans in 43. In my opinion the starting force of the Soviets is too big and too powerfull. I will compare it later on with a part of an OOB I have lying around to see how close it is. But, altough I know the Russian army was bigger then the German at this stage the game has to remain interesting for both the Soviet and the German player. As you do I am very interested in the final set up of this scenario when we will first play the game.

Ex Mudder said:
The US didn't win WW II - it would have been lost before we joined if not for the courage of the Brits and Russians (and everyone else fighting with them). However, the entry of the US into both World Wars did tip the balance of both world wars and allowed victory instead of a bitter peace on both fronts.

Some people think that tipping the balance = the US was responsible for winning it, unfortunately. And most Yanks have only the foggiest view of the world outside their borders.
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That's exactly my opinion on the matter. Altough I don't say it is the truth. But, as Blu Emu said, let's get back on topic.

Cpack said:
100% agree.....but saying "Fritz" in an official beta-AAR could also be seen as some kind of offend to us Germans :(
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Ah well, after one more OT question...... why is Fritz offensive? Just something like Billy Yank, Jerry and Tommy ain't it?

And one little thing; this AAR is not official ;).

To all: thanks for the nice comments and I am glad you like it, there is more comming and I am sure you will like the complexity and depth of the battles on the Eastern-front.
 
Got a question.

Thanks much Mosby! It's really great AAR. I hope playing HOI3 as soon as possible! btw I have some stupid question about your screenshot.

1. I know that it might be something about movement...But what's difference with little tiny arrow and long colored arrow? (and red, green, blue, gray...what's difference?)

2.What is number in colored(red, green, yellow) circle? How could I read the meanings of the symbol?

I'm newbie :p plz help me.
Thank you!
 
sdnrui said:
1. I know that it might be something about movement...But what's difference with little tiny arrow and long colored arrow? (and red, green, blue, gray...what's difference?)
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I'd guess that
- red = movement to hostile/occupied territory
- green = normal movement to friendly territory
- blue = strategic redeployment
- grey = retreat

little tiny arrow: counter movement indicator to next province
long colored arrow: path to target province
 
sdnrui said:
Thanks much Mosby! It's really great AAR. I hope playing HOI3 as soon as possible! btw I have some stupid question about your screenshot.

1. I know that it might be something about movement...But what's difference with little tiny arrow and long colored arrow? (and red, green, blue, gray...what's difference?)

2.What is number in colored(red, green, yellow) circle? How could I read the meanings of the symbol?

I'm newbie :p plz help me.
Thank you!
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1. green should be normal movement, red attack, grey retreat. No idea what blue could be, perhaps it's something to do with the kind of unit that's moving?

2. Those little balloons with numbers in them represent battles in progress.

We're all newbies where this game is concerned :)
Apart from the beta-testers obviously,
 
Alerias said:
IMO there ought to be an event, probably tied to the one seceding Eastern Poland to the Soviets, that secedes the German corridor and Pozen back to Germany proper. Only the Government General areas should be marked as occupied territories in 41.
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I believe Johan addressed this in the past. Something to the effect that seceding territory is very difficult for the game to manage, particularly with exiled governments, partisans, the end of war events, etc.

I think the issue some people have is purely aesthetic: people like to see a map that shows their nation's borders expanding. I'm guessing people aren't opposed to the idea of differentiating occupied territory from national territory. Thus, the question becomes: how better to represent occupied territory on the map? All things considered, it seems this approach is a good method.
 
Singleton Mosby said:
I have the feeling atm I will win. Stabilize the front in late 41, make some first counters in 42 and walk over the Germans in 43. In my opinion the starting force of the Soviets is too big and too powerfull. I will compare it later on with a part of an OOB I have lying around to see how close it is. But, altough I know the Russian army was bigger then the German at this stage the game has to remain interesting for both the Soviet and the German player. As you do I am very interested in the final set up of this scenario when we will first play the game.
Click to expand...

May have something to do with most of the army not being wiped out in the opening stages, however. For things to turn out historically the Soviets have to play badly.

How's the air campaign going by the way?

EDIT: Can we also get a "newsreel" of other things happening around the world that don't involve naval action so much - North Africa (if there is any action there) and China?
 
I agree with Blue Emu but would like to point out the difference between territorial pissing and stating facts. ;)
 
Well, there should be something illustrating the difference between territories annexed during war and occupied. The Germans at some point annexed parts of Poland, Luxemburg, Denmark and Elzas, the laws and garrisoning of these areas would thus be more like the rest of Germany then like that of the other occupied territories.

Mosby: Do you feel the German troops are so much stronger then yours because of unrealistic bonusses that eventually disappear automatically (as in HoI 2) or because of doctrine/leadership issues that you have to fix yourself?
 
Meadhros said:
Mosby: Do you feel the German troops are so much stronger then yours because of unrealistic bonusses that eventually disappear automatically (as in HoI 2) or because of doctrine/leadership issues that you have to fix yourself?
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I have to ask, what do you mean by "unrealistic bonuses"?
 
It seems like the German juggernaut is steam rolling ahead. If I understand your strategy you are trying to slow the German machine by reverse leap frogging. Front line deploys in a defensive posture until the next line is deployed. Then retreat to a defensive line behind the 2nd line after a German attack and before before shattering. Hopefully staving off any shattered units until enough are built to hold a line and prepare for a counterattack. Is this accurate? If so how do you judge when to remove units from the line, 30% losses? Can you destroy the infrastructure along the way as you withdraw to further slow the German invasion?
 
Yeah, I don't see why he see that as unrealistic as it was very real. Both to the german units fighting the soviet units, and to the poor soviet troops who had their officers paralyzed by political interference and fear of being shot for taking initiative. Millions of soldiers in the Red Army died as a direct consequense of this.

War is failure, not just political failure but the people fail. Why? Because they should really refuse to fight. I'm sure they would too, if only they knew the real reasons behind war. Instead, the people are fed political propaganda and very selective information to motivate them. It's always been that way, it's not going to change.
 
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