If Paradox did a Cold War game, what features would you want?

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How many provinces would you like to see in the game?
On the one hand, Cold war is not about conquering the world in the WWII style..
Though, on the other hand, there were lots of civil wars during this period, which can be showed by added lots of provinces. Or this is not a good solution?
 
How many provinces would you like to see in the game?
On the one hand, Cold war is not about conquering the world in the WWII style..
Though, on the other hand, there were lots of civil wars during this period, which can be showed by added lots of provinces. Or this is not a good solution?
HoI style provinces seems like the way to go, sense any conventional warfare that does occur would be closest to that style(though a second type of warfare for rebels/insurgents/terrorists might also be needed)
 
THE Cold War was over when the Soviet Union collapsed and Russia somewhat demilitarised and took a backseat in world politics whilst America did rampant imperialism. A new cold war could be said to have begun since Russia started rebuilding it's military and actually started standing up to the US again.
 
Ah, let's not delve there, nothing good will come out of this. At least I think most of us agree, that fall of USSR is good enough milestone for that type of the game.
If the base game mechanics are deep enough, you don't need too much extra fluff events for each country. Difference in how countries play should be based on those countries starting positions, not on arbitrary rules and events.
Can't really agree with that. I mean "starting positions" part, not "arbitrary rules".
Difference between Namibia and USA is not only about party distribution and economy. There were enough regional specific tendencies in different regions. Islamization/deislamization, education shortage - unlike USA/USSR, some countries had to send their young aboard due to lack of proper Universities, Monarchies/quasi-monarchies.
Also minors could be even more interesting in a way, that they still could paint the map without triggering WW3.
 
What parts of that can't be mechanized into universal mechanics? Why can't education levels and infrastructure be a universal mechanic? Why can't autocratism (I'd note that Namibia hasn't been autocratic since independence, as an example). Why can't conservative and fundamentalism be made into universal mechanics? It'd be complex, for sure, but I see a cold war game as something more akin to Victoria than the other games; it'd be a niche game focusing on economics, diplomacy, and politics, not on expansion and war, with a smaller mass-market appeal. After all, even cold-war-gone-hot games have only a small market, a more historical cold war game is niche by design.
 
infrastructure be a universal mechanic
Didn't say it shouldn't.
education levels
Because they are on a different levels. Majors already have the foundation, third-world minors would have to build it.
Why can't conservative and fundamentalism be made into universal mechanics?
Because it's irrelevant to majors. USSR's "aggressive atheism" and USA's christianity were merely a fluff at that point. Do you remember the starting point of this discussion?
 
Didn't say it shouldn't.
You said "unlike USA/USSR, some countries had to send their young aboard due to lack of proper Universities" as a point for why you needed specific rules for specific countries. But if you agree that infrastructure is universal, it's a moot point.

Because they are on a different levels. Majors already have the foundation, third-world minors would have to build it.
Again, how is this not best done with universal rules? Majors start with 80% education, minors with 30%. No country-specific special rules required.

Because it's irrelevant to majors. USSR's "aggressive atheism" and USA's christianity were merely a fluff at that point. Do you remember the starting point of this discussion?
The argument is whether country-specific special rules are required to make the game, thus making playable minors too much work. You argued that "Islamization/deislamization" is a factor, which I take as a politico-ideological debate over the level of conservatism and fundamentalism in a country. Do you not think that internal domestic politics should take into account fundamentalist or conservative political movements? Do you think that these movements are "irrelevant to majors"? I think you're getting caught up in the outward manifestation of the movements, which is little more than localization in-game. I would argue that Fundamentalism and Conservatism are incredibly important movements in majors, especially in the post-Cold War re-alignment of politics. Christian politics were a huge factor in the States going back decades, and the revitalization of the Orthodox Church in Russia was a major movement post-USSR.
 
I think you're getting caught up in the outward manifestation of the movements, which is little more than localization in-game.
agreed, the flavor text in the pop-ups when these political or societal factors hit a given threshold being changed based on the government/religion/culture, while the general effects remain more or less the same would be the best way to handle it.
 
I would also want a focus on independence and decolonization efforts/movements.

As well as a focus on revolution and insurgency efforts.
And maybe for the decolonization, that you become more authoritarian and less stable if you don't decolonize, but you can choose. i.e.. it's not fixed. Same with the velvet revolutions. An event that if you don't democratize the nation, the nation will become poorer and less stable
 
Personally, it might be just me, but also that the puppets of the USSR (ie. the eastern half of Europe) have "independence events" if certain conditions are met. The USSR can choose between full scale invasion, partial adding of autonomy and complete surrender to all demands, the country can accept or reject. if they accept, peace happens, while if they reject, war begins. Also the capitalist west could choose between do nothing, offer moral support, offer economic support, offer partial military support and fully support the country with costs and benefits for each, that if they choose the last option, they ally and the war becomes hot
 
One thing I'd like to see in a Paradox Cold War game is the possibility of a start date before 1945.

Yes, I know there was no "Cold War" before 1945, and a start date that includes World War II would seem to tread on HoI's territory. The default start for the base game should be 1945 (or 1950), just as 1066 is the default start of CKII. But like CKII has had a couple of DLCs that make it possible to start earlier, I'd like our hypothetical Cold War game to have the option, even if only in a DLC, to start as far back as 1922. In addition to being the year Stalin took charge of the Soviet Union, it is also the year that Mussolini became prime minister of Italy. Because I envision the Cold War game as being as much about the spreading of ideology as it would be about preparing for (and trying to avoid) nuclear armaggeddon, and pushing the starting date to before World War II has been fought would make Fascism a potentially viable alternative to the binary USA/USSR setup that some people in this thread have expressed concern about.

Not that V-E Day extinguished all Fascism forever, of course. But with an alternate World War II where the Axis was more successful, its most powerful proponents would have had a lot more influence in the course of history to come, and the Cold War could have ended up as a standoff between three major ideologies instead of only two. Or possibly still two, but not the same two.

Starting as far back as 1922 could also mean the Nazi Party never comes to power and the Axis as we know it never forms, but that's alternate history for you. But I think it would be fun to have the option to give other nations the chance to try to enter the Cold War as superpowers, and open the game with a race to see who will be the first to develop the nuclear weaponry that will allow the Cold War itself to kick in and drive the course of the rest of the game.

No, I don't think every playthrough should require the player to risk not having the Cold War we know from history in-game. And I certainly wouldn't want to have to work my way through World War II every time I wanted to start a new campaign of a game that's supposed to be about the Cold War! That's why I'm perfectly happy to consign this content to a secondary start date available only though a DLC. The base game, by all means, should start out as the familiar Cold War, with the two major ideologies and two initial superpowers we know from real history. Clearly that's what most people who buy a Cold War game are going to want, and I'm all for that. But if DLC can allow Crusader Kings II to begin 326 years before the First Crusade, surely it wouldn't betray the point of a Cold War game to allow, just as an option, a couple of decades of pre-Cold War setup for those who feel like reshuffling the players and deciding on a different balance of power for the era.

As for treading on HoI, I'd say the war mechanics of this game clearly wouldn't be as deep as in that series. HoI was designed from the ground up to be able to simulate with richness and depth all the minute details of leading a nation in the midst of the largest war in history. (I assume; I haven't actually played it.) Our hypothetical Cold War game would be far more focused on politics, espionage, and diplomacy, with most actual in-game wars being relatively small-scale proxy wars. It wouldn't need to be able to support the same depth of war mechanics as HoI does. So it really wouldn't compete with HoI at all, since that series would still exist for anyone who wanted to immerse themselves in the detail-oriented total war experience it offers; the World War II that would be fought in my hypothetical DLC could afford to be run at a much more superficial level than that, seeing that it's really only there to determine who the superpowers are and what ideologies they dominate with once the real meat of the game, the Cold War itself, gets going.

If you add a start date earlier than 1945, it will effectively become the default start date for the game. Just as for HoI4, 1936 is the default for literally 96% of all games according to the developers.

I want PDS to focus their efforts of developing a fun and engaging WW2 into HoI4. HoI4 as it exists has some serious shortcomings, it would be redundant to try to fix one version of WW2 while simultaneously creating another for a different game.
 
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If you add a start date earlier than 1945, it will effectively become the default start date for the game. Just as for HoI4, 1936 is the default for literally 96% of all games according to the developers.

I want PDS to focus their efforts of developing a fun and engaging WW2 into HoI4. HoI4 as it exists has some serious shortcomings, it would be redundant to try to fix one version of WW2 while simultaneously creating another for a different game.
I disagree. Because in HOI4, 1936 might be default, but that's because it was the first one added. CK2 had start dates as dlc's and 1066 is still one of the most played ones, not 768. So have the Cold War with 1945, 1948 and hopefully 1967 and possibly even the cuban missile crisis. And then add a start date as a dlc for 1936 or maybe even 1934 or the best would be 1919 right after versailles peace conference or 2 different dlc's with start dates. One would have 1919 and 1934, the other would have 1936, 1939 and the base game would have 1945 or 1948 and hopefully the cuban missile crisis and Prague spring, although 1967 might just be me wanting it as that actually did have potential into a war if the allies had helped Czechoslovakia. Also CK2 and EU4 also overlap, yet EU4 first decade is completely different from ck2 last decade. So it could be something similar, that they do overlap, but the Cold War's focus is different
 
So have the Cold War with 1945, 1948 and hopefully 1967 and possibly even the cuban missile crisis. And then add a start date as a dlc for 1936 or maybe even 1934 or the best would be 1919 right after versailles peace conference or 2 different dlc's with start dates.

The Interwar timeline extension DLC should be called Biplanes & Brownshirts,BnB for short, and the art would feature a Sopwith Camel strafing a fat and terrified Ernst Rohm running away.

Actually, that belongs in Victoria 3.
 
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The Interwar timeline extension DLC should be called Biplanes & Brownshirts,BnB for short, and the art would feature a Sopwith Camel strafing a fat and terrified Ernst Rohm running away.

Actually, that belongs in Victoria 3.
Is that sarcasm? And no, there should be 2 timeline extensions. A "World in War" DLC (1936/1939) and A "Interwar: Rise and Tension" DLC (1922/1918). Maybe a 3rd DLC "World in Flames" DLC (Cuban Missile crisis and 1967)
 
I think a "backwards" facing DLC for the Cold War game would be called "Operation Unthinkable", sense that's likely the scenario people would want to explore through such a startdate.
 
I think a "backwards" facing DLC for the Cold War game would be called "Operation Unthinkable", sense that's likely the scenario people would want to explore through such a startdate.
Yeah. Although personally it might be interesting if it overlapped with HOI4 a bit, like EU4 with CK2, but focused on espionage and politics, so you could change the 2 countries or even make a 3 way Cold War. Like Germany Vs. Italy. Vs. Japan instead of USSR Vs. US
 
Why would you have a cold war game that starts in a time when there was not a cold war possible?

1950 is likely the optimum start date... and one that ensures all the major actors in the Cold War are set in stone (USA, USSR, UK, PRC, France, North and South Korea, East and West Germany, India, Pakistan, Israel, Egypt, South Africa).
 
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Why would you have a cold war game that starts in a time when there was not a cold war possible?

1950 is likely the optimum start date... and one that ensures all the major actors in the Cold War are set in stone (USA, USSR, UK, PRC, France, North and South Korea, East and West Germany, India, Pakistan, Israel, Egypt, South Africa).
And that's good? That all the major actors are set in stone? Some people would want to try a Cold War with different actors, like Germany instead of the US, etc.
 
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