Hello again folks, I do believe it is time for another dev diary!

We've basically covered most of the features in the game by now, so I thought I'd change tack and talk a bit about what we've been up to in the last week. Much of the focus lately has been on war and peace, both the rules and the AI behaviour. I am pleased to report that we've now got vassals within the same realm fighting each other like the vicious bastards they are.

We have also changed the rules a bit - vassals are now allowed to declare war on independent rulers, but independent rulers still cannot declare war on vassals. Thus, we now have William of Normandy as a vassal of France while invading England on his own. An unforeseen consequence of this is that he now tends to call in his father-in-law, another French vassal, Duke Boudewijn of Flandres to help him out. Marriage matters folks, and don't you forget it!

On a related note, Duchess Matilde of Tuscany, vassal of the Holy Roman Emperor (and the most eligible bride in Europe), tends to open the game in 1066 with a rather bad move, attacking the Pope to seize Orvieto (which is de jure part of her Duchy of Spoleto.) Other times, the Pope usurps the title Duke of Spoleto, and then Matilde feels obliged to attempt to take it back.

Either way, the unfortunate Duchess tends to get a rather nasty surprise. She has forgotten an important lesson that you might remember from an earlier diary - the Pope gets taxes from loyal bishops around Europe, making him a very, very rich man. So, while he has few levies of his own to raise, he can basically afford to hire every mercenary company in Europe! Even the mighty Holy Roman Emperor sometimes loses to the might of the Vatican.



...and there was much balancing.

Until next time!

 

[ramblymanguthri]

But if your family is your alliance, you have an alliance with your brother, but when would the alliance end? when he is dead or when his child is dead or would it end with his grandchild?

I mean I don't want to have random alliances just becouse my great great great great grand father was the brother to someone today king in Spain

As been said, there's nothing stopping you from attacking your family and "allies", but it will cost you prestige and other people won't like it.

And they're not really random. It's within your dynasty, as you yourself said, and with whatever dynasty your wife belongs to.

 

[Wezqu]

Speaking of war mechanics, are you saying that the defender can only demand status quo or revoking claims even if he manages to turn the tide of war and decimate the attacker?

They already stated that you can for example demand hostage from the attacker among other things.

 

[yourworstnightm]

Isent the papal states a bitt overpowered? Or have you made it so that they play by a bitt different rules like not going for conquest of regions rather than spreading the faith and gaining money and power(not by conquering). I might be wrong but the papal states dident go conquering land around europe at this time? I know they owned lots of land but conquer it, id think they more forced/threatened to gett lands of lords with no heirs etc.?

Thanks in advance!

They actually did conquers some land in Italy, but it really shouldn't be a focus, and the Pope should definitely not go for land outside Italy.

 

[Nick B II]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franco-Mongol_alliance
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglo-Portuguese_Alliance

Two examples I can think of. I do agree with how Paradox is doing alliances with marriage though, it makes sense.

What I'm really looking for is an alliance similar to the one guys were demanding in this thread.

That is one where the ally sends military aid, cannot be simulated by plots, and involves no family relationship whatsoever. The Franco-Mongol Alliance doesn't count because all military aid was directed towards the goal of taking Jerusalem. It's not like the French sent troops to battle Mongol enemies, or the Mongols sent Horse Archers to help in the Hundred Years War. So a series of plots to take Jerusalem by combined military action works fine.

The Franco-Portuguese alliance is typically dated from the marriage of Phillipa of Lancaster to John I, and involved no actual military activity between her death in 1415 and game-end. So a marriage-alliance works fine.

Nick

 

[EmperorTojo]

It would be cool if you could ally your friends, aswell. Though from what I understand there's no "friends" nor "rivals" anymore, which is quite sad.

 

[InnocentIII]

Personally I see no need for balancing.

 

[Lord Tywin]

It would be cool if you could ally your friends, aswell. Though from what I understand there's no "friends" nor "rivals" anymore, which is quite sad.

As I understand it people you have a high relationship with will be likelier to join your plots, which essentially is like an alliance attacking a nation.

 

[mp84]

Children get their father's dynasty, so the alliance would be over when the daughter of the French King died.

Ahh awesome, that is the answer I was hoping for, although you stating what you just did leads me to believe that it will be a "Game Over" screen once all your Male Dynasty Members die out without a Male Heir like it was in CK I, even though you have Female members of your dynasty still alive and prospering, but just under a different cadet branch of your family technically. If I'm wrong in that assumption for CK II, then if you can clarify please do, heh .

But if your family is your alliance, you have an alliance with your brother, but when would the alliance end? when he is dead or when his child is dead or would it end with his grandchild?

I mean I don't want to have random alliances just becouse my great great great great grand father was the brother to someone today king in Spain

Well, as the devs mention already alliances work totally different in this game than in other games.. Even if you're in an alliance you're not locked to never attack them, you will still be able to, but with a prestige hit of course.. (and possible other penalties too)

Also, I notice everyone wants to be aggressor and possibly attack your allies, but I don't think people have realized is, I'm sure you can manufacture cause into them "attacking" you, and not the other way around, this way you don't get the prestige hit .

And finally, all this talk about Diplomacy in some way, perhaps that could be the next Dev Diary to put a lot of these questions at ease, heh.

MP

 

[ramblymanguthri]

As I understand it people you have a high relationship with will be likelier to join your plots, which essentially is like an alliance attacking a nation.

Which is very cool and intuitive. However, you might also want to be able to call on friends to defend you when you are attacked, not just your relatives. It would seem like very natural feature. Perhaps there is some kind of defensive plot/pact..? I just think it would be a reasonable thing to expect.

 

[EmperorTojo]

Which is very cool and intuitive. However, you might also want to be able to call on friends to defend you when you are attacked, not just your relatives. It would seem like very natural feature. Perhaps there is some kind of defensive plot/pact..? I just think it would be a reasonable thing to expect.

This sounds neat!

 

[John Forseti]

So plots can be targetted against people outside your nation? That's cool, I haven't played CKI and by the name 'plot' I assumed they were clandestine plans to remove rebelious vassals/overthrow unfriendly lieges etc.

 

[Nick B II]

So plots can be targetted against people outside your nation? That's cool, I haven't played CKI and by the name 'plot' I assumed they were clandestine plans to remove rebelious vassals/overthrow unfriendly lieges etc.

Plots are completely new.

Unfortunately there's been no DD on them, so all we can really do is speculate.

That said I see no reason for Paradox to design a Plots feature that couldn't target foreigners. Whats the point of a plots feature if Kings can't plot against each-other?

Nick

 

[Swezeru]

So does this mean that you could have more than 1 alliance in the game, like 5 or more? (that is, if you have that many relatives to marry)

 

[Darkrenown]

Ahh awesome, that is the answer I was hoping for, although you stating what you just did leads me to believe that it will be a "Game Over" screen once all your Male Dynasty Members die out without a Male Heir like it was in CK I, even though you have Female members of your dynasty still alive and prospering, but just under a different cadet branch of your family technically. If I'm wrong in that assumption for CK II, then if you can clarify please do, heh .

TBH we have changed this a fair bit. I think you can keep playing as any valid heir of your dynasty, so if your succession law allows females you can play on as them.

 

[Orinsul]

a fair bit changed is promising
changed it as in meaning there are now female succession laws, or changed it as in 'keep playing as any valid heir of your dynasty' where if you dont have a your dynasty successor of your characters title but his cousin of same dynasty is a count on the other side of the map youl'll switch to playing as him, here the the Head of House being what the player is to be inherited and continue playing as when this line dies out not say, Duke of York.
eithers cool but one is cooler

 

[unmerged(75409)]

TBH we have changed this a fair bit. I think you can keep playing as any valid heir of your dynasty, so if your succession law allows females you can play on as them.

But... that would effectively switch you over to a new dynasty, wouldn't it??

Or would it, then, be game over if the female ruler dies without an heir that bears her last name?

 

[Nick B II]

TBH we have changed this a fair bit. I think you can keep playing as any valid heir of your dynasty, so if your succession law allows females you can play on as them.

One interpretation of this is that that you can play your daughters, but not their sons, but that's not really a change. If your daughter inherited in CK1 you could still play her, the problem was that you needed to mod your game to let daughters inherit. Which means that particular reading isn't particularly helpful because DarkRenown described this as a "big change."

So I'm hopeful it means you can play as your female-line grandsons.

Nick

 

[Subcomandante]

One interpretation of this is that that you can play your daughters, but not their sons, but that's not really a change. If your daughter inherited in CK1 you could still play her, the problem was that you needed to mod your game to let daughters inherit. Which means that particular reading isn't particularly helpful because DarkRenown described this as a "big change."

So I'm hopeful it means you can play as your female-line grandsons.

Nick

It has been confirmed in the comments section of DD3 that the children of female rulers take on the mother's family name if the husband is of lower rank. If you marry your daughter to a higher ranked man, you have the advantage of a strong ally, but the price is that your grandsons will be named after him.

 

[mp84]

It has been confirmed in the comments section of DD3 that the children of female rulers take on the mother's family name if the husband is of lower rank. If you marry your daughter to a higher ranked man, you have the advantage of a strong ally, but the price is that your grandsons will be named after him.

Aye, reading that as well has me hopeful that you can play as a your Female's line "grandson" to continue your dynasty, which further backs up what Darkrenown just mentioned earlier.. However, we're probably not gonna get true confirmation of this until we are actually able to play the game and something like this happens to us I think.

Plots are completely new.
Unfortunately there's been no DD on them, so all we can really do is speculate.
That said I see no reason for Paradox to design a Plots feature that couldn't target foreigners. Whats the point of a plots feature if Kings can't plot against each-other?
Nick

Well.. I have a feeling it will probably be "somewhat" similar to how it plays out in "Sengoku" which has plots.. Although if the "Plots" are like Sengoku, I seriously hope there's more than just the 3 it offers for Sengoku. Since they only offer Military centric plots related to attacking another clan, breaking free from your clan, and usurping the clan leaders title.

Also, from what the Devs stated there, "Plots" overall are rather difficult to mod because the actual mechanics of Plots is "hardcoded" and not "script base". (But again that's for Sengoku) So Overall, I just hope CK II has way more variety in their Plot mechanic as to be honest it's one of the features I really enjoy about Sengoku.

 

[Orinsul]

hopefully the plots wont be military at all. Surely plotting should lead to bloodless palace coups, assassinations, backstabbing, etc, not wars. the point of plotting is to avoid having the fight, but achieve the goal cleanly and with cunning.