CK2 Dev Diary #112 - Wonderful News

[JosunUrashima]

Adding canals is possible, however changing the map after the game has started is pretty difficult, so not sure we would do them justice.

Could you not set it up so that the map has a small secondary layer for something like a suez canal, and that building it simply removes that layer and reveals the canal zone?

 

[JosunUrashima]

Well we plan to have a palace. So if we manage to get that in then some dynastic upgrades/ flavour would be cool.

Will palaces be a separate thing? And will they be something one could end up holding as a landed title with nothing else? Sort of akin to the other family manors of merchant republics?

 

[Knucker]

I recommend giving thought to wonders that could have been, on top on the existing ones listed among the replies, given the player's influence on the game and supernatural possibilities. Here's a few of my ideas (I put links below since I don't know how to elegantly integrate them into the text) :

- For the germanic, african and slavic cultures/pagan religions, a sacred tree evolving to a sacred grove. Such trees were decorated with talismans, and sometimes used as a loot stash. With enough time and care, it could become a perfectly good living wonder.
- Ovoos or similarly decorated landmarks for tengrism and buddhism.
- Divine crop, like an apple tree, grape or bees, growing from seedling to orchards/apiaries. They could provide food when you shut the gates (possibly infinite), prevent food poisoning and negate poisoning attempts, induce events or traits, and there's versatility to it since supernatural crops and foods are diverse and common to quite a few of the in-game religions : manna, ambrosia, mead of poetry, golden apples, forbidden fruit…
- Garden of Erra/Nergal/another plague god. A wonder linked to disease but instead (or on top) of giving disease resistance, a trait making diseases reinforcing instead of diminishing or the ability to unleash an epidemy : another Black Death, an equivalent of it that would hit nomads but spare sedentary populations (unlike the Black Death), a "good" disease that buffs, a "gray" one where the infected is buffed but dies faster, a zombie outbreak… You name it, that spares your dynasty/dominion/culture/religion (following your choice).
- A cathedral to RNGesus that resets your traits, randomizes them (you enter with say 5 traits, you exit with 5 new random ones), mega-randomizes your character (random sex, random culture, random religion, random traits), offers a choice among 3 big 50/50 like Your age is now either 19 or 91/You either gain Imbecile or Genius/Your wealth is now either tenfold or one-tenth.
- Natural wonders (hello Civ5) like the Himalaya, Mt Sinai...

Another idea would be digging sites, that could borrow the same construction progress mechanic, albeit of lower amplitude ending with the obtainment of a pre-requisite for wonders or wonders upgrades. For example a christian paragon of virtue/saint descendant could launch a search for the Grail in the intrigue menu and eventually retrieve it, then giving his dynasty the ability to build a wonder to contain it. Or random/lesser expeditions that can unearth artifact chambers, mysterious libraries, or a divine crop seed to upgrade the royal palace wonder (to echo to my previous suggestion).
I'm a bit embarrassed about their placement though. It would imo not be desirable to make any such treasure obtainable from everywhere, but making it obtainable in only one county on the map would be a hassle too. To circumvent that such relics may only be found within certain de-jure empires, with multiple good sites, so you still have multiple options that remain reasonable. For the coding, they could be randomized hidden holy sites that are revealed through intrigue choices, thus pinpointing where to set a digging site. So the Grail could be obtained in Britannia, Maghreb or Syria at the same map (but there would only ever be one Grail, you can't dig up a second one).

If digging sites can be scraped, I think rare pre-requisites are worth considering, like the Grail that I mentionned, a commissionned smith making something extraordinary, looters uncovering something in the pillage, etc.
It'd be cool too if the investment was not only limited to gold and time, like having to obtain x amount of gold from raiding/looting/ransoms or having to accumulate/sacrifice a certain number of prisonners to inaugurate the aztec wondrous pyramid of murder.


Links :
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sacred_grove
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Mythological_substances
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ovoo
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nergal + https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Plague_gods

 

[Coalsack]

I think that if a golden tree exists, it should be located either on Northern Morocco (The Tangier duchy) or southern Spain, since Hercules legend associates them with the pillars...of Hercules.

 

[Vistariel]

It would be nice to have the option to restore or rebuild old structures which have since fallen into ruins or disappeared altogether.

For example, holding Alexandria could inspire the ruler to attempt to reconstruct the Great Lighthouse and/or the Mouseion--which would have greater bonuses than standard libraries/universities (if great libraries/universities become structures which we can build).

Or a Hellenic could have the option to restore the Great Temples (such as Artemis in Ephesus, or Zeus in Olympia).

Or perhaps even taking prehistoric monuments (like Stonehenge or Pyramids of Giza) and redeveloping/updating/improving/repurposing them.

Christians having the opportunity to build special grand cathedrals at major sites: like the 5 episcopal sees.

Christians and Muslims could have the option to convert/repurpose grand mosques/cathedrals to their respective religion, like Hagia Sophia or Alhambra.

Adding a palace-building option would be great too! Palaces which would be permanently bound to a province, and would yield benefits which would vary whether it were a capital palace or "summer/winter palace."

One a related but side note:
Frankly, I would love to see Universities removed from the standard town build queue and made into a provincial wonder which could only be built when a sufficient academic presence were established in a province, likely first established through a Cathedral school or court patronage system of some sort. Early universities academic communities, not campuses. However, the option to invest building a university community through patronizing scholars/artists/theologians and subsequently building them a world-renowned campus would be a fun addition. Perhaps starting with scholar residences moving into a library and finally a full-blown academic campus.

 

[Masternachos]

I think each holy site for each religion having a wonder that can only be built there [by which I mean a generic type that can only be built by someone of a certain religion at one of their own holy sites] would be great if its completion and continued presence bolstered MA, while its destruction would be a huge blow to MA (and possibly a trigger for Crusades/GHW).

But still, everything we've seen so far looks pretty good; and considering it's completely free, it all looks phenomenal.

 

[Zalmoxis]

New way to play tall, have lots of wonders in a region? Build a great library and invent new technologies and then overrun the world with guns, maybe?

 

[DanCav]

Expanding on the subject which I loved, I will comment on some ideas although all were very good ones, theses specifically made me want to contribute a bit, I hope you guys don't mind it's just my opinions anyway.

The Theodosian Walls of Constantinople can finally have a proper category to sit in in-game. I like this even if it's only so that doesn't have a bizarre "no proper categorization" feature. But also I like it in general, it'll be fun.

Will there be any special acknowledgement if you finish a cathedral on a catholic holy site (or other mega-church equivalent on your religion's holy site)? There should be, that should cause...something to happen.

With the saintly bloodlines one thing I'd like to see is not only just the aforementioned quote which is a great idea but the possibility of something else: in My vanilla game I managed to form the wendish empire and convert to Catholic, marry the Basileus daughter and conquer the Byzantine Empire later, forming a rather large empire, specially while I'm in the process of conquering Bulgaria. Anyways my ancestor, who formed the empire and had almost finished the war with the Byzantines before he died was sanctified. buried in Krakow. Now I am basically the the purple blob in the east europe and part of russia. Context aside, I would like to see if possible, the possibility of having basically built a huge wonder in the puny shrine of my Myrrh streaming ancestor (which is strange I thought it was more of an Orthodox usage than Catholic), anyway I digress: So If I build a huge cathedral or/and a Mausoleum having the biggest empire and the pope as my vassal (yep!) could I petition him to make the county added as a holy place to our religion....? pleeeease!
Also consider, the possibility of a royal burial Cathedral similar to St Dennis before, you know.

Ehrm, no. Obelisks originated in ancient Egypt. Albeit their construction started a little later than the Pyramids. Most of them come from the Middle Empire - New Empire period.

True but here's is twist. First the Romans loved the idea, so much so they stole - eh borrowed, it was a province then... - a lot of them and built new ones such as Trajan's victory column.
They had a thing for triumphal arches as well. and bridges and aqueducts and roads, though I don't see how those would be helpful.

I couldn't find the quote where the helpful Paradox staff member explained the had not planned to add multicounty wonders. I beg you to add an exception. In nations huge as my own in contact with China, they might think a good Idea to build a kind of tiny little wall thingy, make they can even call it Great if they feel proud of it, spanning several border counties. I'ts not like it's gonna work anyway history proves hey maybe you can even add an event where when the great Khan having already conquered Chin, looks at it laughs and say "he's probably compensating for something" or "I've seem bigger" (though one of his generals will probably say "that's what she said!" (crude I know) and be executed promptly; or something as simple as "It hasn't stopped us before won't stop us know." So basically I would like a Great wall of Poland. or Rome or whatever where you need a lot of counties and a lot of money both to build and to maintain, although I'd only bill maintenance if it actually does something useful.

You shall all be thankful to know I'm about to end this not quite concise post, I do apologise for my prolixity, but hey I usually won't apologise for my failings, I'll just admit to them - when I can't deny.

Cheers,
Dan

 

[Viridianus]

Paradox staff member explained the had not planned to add multicounty wonders. I beg you to add an exception

I believe there were some purely technical issues with that. On the other hand, one could mod in *parts* of a wall.

 

[DanCav]

I believe there were some purely technical issues with that. On the other hand, one could mod in *parts* of a wall.

Thank you for making it clearer to me, I did try to read all posts but well, there are many.
I wonder though whether it would be possible to make such wall similar to forts already in the game in specific counties, such as mountain passes. you could make it very difficult to transpose the alps, southern tibet, the pyrenees and caucasus, amongst others with a few well placed garrisoned walls/fortifications (different then the current forts, something you'd actually to siege and reduce/capture.

 

[DanCav]

I just thought of something lacking in the bloodline that could add some flavor, My beloved King was winning a crusade, and upon winning a battle in Jerusalem he dueled the local commander and well died. Bloodline of Saint Kazimier the Martyr of Jerusalem anyone? I mean whatever his faults (he had many) the Pope did say they'd all be forgiven if they took up the holy cause right? Deus Vult!
Which adds another couple of thoughts.
Those who participate in a Papal sanctioned crusades should lose some traits and gain others in events? Gaining cruel, wroth, diligence, and other virtues along zealous come to mind, in specific flavorful events.
The second thought is Martyrdom. I mean one of my courtier got burned in a stake by a Pagan! That's worth a minor bloodline even if I had burned, hanged mauled by bear, amongst other colorful methods of execution on those same pagans. that's just life. Well death. Horrible horrible, death.
Cheers.
Dan