CK2 Dev Diary #112 - Wonderful News

[Lord Hoosier]

We need to be able to rebuild the Temple as Israel!

 

[Crimson Grog]

Why do you even ask ? Pyramids in medieval times (for instance) for a start ??
World Wonders ?? What is this as a game ? Civilisation nonsense ?
I want a Game Rule, not asking to not do it, i wonder why several people seem to have an issue with even that.

I agree. Don't get me wrong I love Civ (currently playing Civ 5 Vox Populi mod) but I play CK2 for the medieval dynasty simulator. The further away the game drifts from this original goal (ancient religions and wonders, Aztec invasion, secret bears) the less interested I become.

I would rather time and effort be spent on features that are already in the game such as improving heresies, adding more flavor to Orthodoxy/Ibadi/Miaphysite/etc., fixing some of the wonky interactions with Republics (sudden Game Over on succession, some strange interaction with religions that change succession), and fixing retinues+tactics (cataphracts are bad due to interaction between heavy cavalry and horse archers, elephants are pretty much useless).

 

[Sexytron3000]

Naturally, as in every paradox game, we'll need a way to make and destroy the suez canal. You guys and stellaris are painfully behind in that regard.

When it comes to obviously less important wonders however:

Rebuilding the Temple of Jerusalem is an obvious one.
Rebuilding and Re-establishing the Oracle of Delfi is a less obvious one.
Generic religious wonders specialised for all religions, like a cathedral or a sun temple or a particularly great mosque.
More specialised wonders with unique bonuses for certain holy sites.
Unique terrain-based wonders, like mountainous castles or desert trading cities.
Place-determined wonders meant to represent real buildings made during or around the period of the game, such as:

Mont St. Michel.
AlHambra
The Great Mosque of Samarra
The Leaning tower of Pisa
Major early educational institutions, like Oxford or the Sankore Madrasah
The Potala Palace in Tibet
Mausoleums dedicated to former rulers, wives, children or horses. Maybe have a special one for hordes in here.
Krak des Chevaliers
Notre Dame

And already existing ones that haven't been suggested much:
Mount Athos Monasteries
The Stele of Axum
The Academy of Gondishapur
Putting Petra in there just so that Quill18 will make another let's play of the game.

Restoration of former wonders (this is the really speculative one), like the City of Babylon (Hanging gardens?), The Great Lighthouse, Great Colossus, Great Library, Great Cothon of Carthage, half of everything in Greece)

Canal systems like those of Venice or Brugge

Early astronomical observatories

Multi-Province structures, most likely defensive works like Hadrian's Wall or the Great Wall of China. These would likely be very region/culture-dependent and only useful in rare situations.

Important religious sites that can be deliberately sacked to hurt the moral authority of a religion long-term (but not permanently most likely), like Charlemagne did with Irminsul to Germanic pagans, or turning the Hagia Sophia into a Mosque, or theoretically with buildings like the Kaaba or the Mahabodhi temple, or ones established over the course of the game.

Monuments commemorating certain characters (runestone complexes, statues) or wars (Arches of Triumph. These should provide absolutely no bonus)

Some implementation for characters with "ulterior motives", like a satanic worship site inside of a pyramid. Could add some really fun flavour events for crusaders hunting apostates.

Some way of representing cities with particularly large amounts of historical or potential wonders, like Jerusalem, Baghdad, Rome, Gloucestershire et cetera.

Stacking the Aztec invaders with enough money to complete a pyramid wonder very quickly to make some interesting gameplay dynamism and potentially make it worth it for more people to have the DLC on, and to ensure that the Aztecs don't convert to another religion/split up immediately.

Generally ones that can strengthen:
Trade(money)+Navy
Religion
Military offence
Military defence (+permanent bonuses)
Prestige + permanent bonuses
Technology + permanent bonuses
Unique interactions leading up to roleplay, particularly with insane characters
An expensive upgrade to merchant palaces with the caveat that losing them resets you to square one.

And probably a very generic "Great City/Castle/palace of X" one that's just an all-around one with very different bonuses that unlock depending on certain conditions.

Most of these should have their names be customizable by the player, and at the same time have the "default name" for historical ones be dependent on culture and religion. Not much sense in building "The Great Mosque of X and X" when you're a nestorian christian.

But that might just be me lobbing ideas at the screen, overall it's a grand suggestion

 

[Seclouds]

Can we have a choices to destroy the 3rd temple and make them have to build the 4th one?

 

[gerindoom]

That's a great idea.

 

[Snakes!]

Late to the party but here goes...

The city of the dead, where you can inter your ancestors (as well as favored courtiers and vassals) in grand mausoleums, catacombs and generally ever more ostentatious resting places.

Breaking the backs of the peasants to serve the empty prestige and glory of the dead and generally create a morbid dynasty preoccupied with death would be great fun.

Freely butchering a Tolkien quote from memory to get what I'm going for: "And so it came to be that wizened old men in high towers held the names of their forebears in greater esteem than those of their sons" (in reference to the decadence of Numenor).

 

[Kapitalisti]

Naturally, as in every paradox game, we'll need a way to make and destroy the suez canal. You guys and stellaris are painfully behind in that regard.

They really sould add a unique planetary feature for Earth in Stellaris.
"The Suez Canal
It's nice I guess?"

With no effect of course.

 

[Ixalmaris]

Late to the party but here goes...

The city of the dead, where you can inter your ancestors (as well as favored courtiers and vassals) in grand mausoleums, catacombs and generally ever more ostentatious resting places.

Breaking the backs of the peasants to serve the empty prestige and glory of the dead and generally create a morbid dynasty preoccupied with death would be great fun.

Freely butchering a Tolkien quote from memory to get what I'm going for: "And so it came to be that wizened old men in high towers held the names of their forebears in greater esteem than those of their sons" (in reference to the decadence of Numenor).

I really like that idea.

 

[Steel_atlas]

I'll second others , I'd rather have gameplay improvements over new wonders to build.

MRs in particular, make the connect to capital work through tradezone control, allow trade posts to be built in water bodies connected to controlled lands and allow matrillineal marriages.

 

[Hyardgune]

I think that it is worth re-visiting the one wonder per province limit, at least for a very limited list of provinces such as Alexandria, Athens, Baghdad, Constantinople, Jerusalem, and Rome (maybe adding a few others such as Lhasa, London, etc.) as these have a number of existing or potentially restorable Wonders already.

Obviously, a number of pre-existing or potential wonders have been mentioned repeatedly, so I'll try not to add to that, and instead, I'll suggest -

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Academy_of_Gondishapur
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahabodhi_Temple
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virupaksha_Temple,_Hampi
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nalanda
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Behistun_Inscription

 

[TheRealRemus]

I Love this!
what about semi wonders? constructs that are hugd per se but not as gigantic as a wonder?
I was thinking of perhaps fortresses that in our history may have been imposible to conquer and only have been conquererd because of human failure?
those would be cool.
if the numbers of wonders will be Limited would it be possible to abandon one or even destroy some only leaving ruins?
can pagans build Monuments of their high god if they chose temporal and devine marriage?
cant wait to see what you guys will do with that.

 

[Rags17]

:
what about semi wonders? constructs that are huge per se but not as gigantic as a wonder?
:

I remember them ! -

• the Adequate Pyramid at Giza, Egypt
• the Low Lying Gardens of Babylon
• the Statuette of Zeus at Olympia, Greece
• the Drive Through Church of Artemis at Ephesus
• the Simple Headstone at Halicarnassus
• the Manneken Pis of Rhodes
• the Tiki-Torch of Alexandria, Egypt

All thoroughly adequate and eminently forgettable.

 

[TheDungen]

I remember them ! -

• the Adequate Pyramid at Giza, Egypt
• the Low Lying Gardens of Babylon
• the Statuette of Zeus at Olympia, Greece
• the Drive Through Church of Artemis at Ephesus
• the Simple Headstone at Halicarnassus
• the Manneken Pis of Rhodes
• the Tiki-Torch of Alexandria, Egypt

All thoroughly adequate and eminently forgettable.

Dammit now I really want the like function back.

 

[killerbee256]

Can we rebuild the Circus Maximus, or new great "circuses" if we are Greek or Roman. So we may have charot races out side of Constantinople if we have the legacy of Rome dlc.

 

[Finnway]

Good afternoon

Good morning

If you have fun ideas for any of this please let us know. I can’t promise it will get in, but it just might.

Hmm...

What about a unique wonder for Emperor tier titles that is an Imperial Palace? It seems to me that it couldn't hurt.

Besides that, you mentioned Great Libraries. Are there any plans to incorporate Universities into the wonder system? Or is that best left for its own system?

 

[Strangedane]

Dannevirke has got to start in as a great wall wonder.

That defensive position was maintained and garrisoned from year 500 and up to 1864.

 

[Pangaron]

I was travelling to work this morning, when I read the news. Seeing the pyramids in the post brought small tears of joy in my eyes and the whole day was much nicer. I am such an emotional weakling when it comes to things I love and CK2 is one of such things Although not confirmed fully, a possibility of my long time wish coming true makes me really excited. To see the restoration of Kemet and the faith of Amun-Ra, Osiris, Bastet and many others of this complex and deep religion. To see Kemet strong again and possibly help it to achieve greater goals then ever. To conquer the former conquerors and bring the pharaohs back to rule over Kemet.

Before some people hate on me, yes, I am aware that this is historically very inaccurate and improbable scenario. It did not really happen and thus it is hard to accept or imagine (for some) such possibility. But remember that many times in the history, the world order was changed or turned from order to chaos or vice versa by series of events. A leader or a prophet can make seemingly impossible things possible and start such events, if they manage to win over the crowd(s). And I still think that the restoration of Kemet is more probable then the Sunset Invasion or many supernatural events in the game. And to be honest, I may not like the former (I am happy for people who enjoy Sunset Invasion though!), but I certainly enjoy some supernatural events in the game, as they add more variety to the game and spice is a bit (who does not like succubi?). It is a matter of taste and as long as we have a choice to turn such parts of the game on or off, nobody has to worry and we can all appreciate the great complex and deep game CK2 is, and hopefully will continue to be for years to come. It is one of my favourite games. I am an RPG guy at the heart, but I cannot resist grand strategies, especially if CK2 is SO close to an RPG with all the decisions and path you can take. It is a ruler simulator, mixed with The Sims and gamebook events. The best "WHAT IF" game there is. Also quite an edgy game with things like the diarrhoea, cannibalism and incest (elements that makes for the funniest stories ever generated in a game, second only to Dwarf Fortress maybe).

And what if we can go back, yet forward and build and restore more pyramids and temples, for example:

Temple of Bastet (including the festival event)
Luxor Temple
Karnak Temple

But of course, I am looking forward to see many more wonders built or restored! The Great Library of Alexandria to boost the technology spread and/or the Lighthouse of Alexandria to boost the trade. Alexandria sounds OP huh?

Hey, Paradox and all the awesome people behind CK2, thanks for the amazing game, thanks for helping me (and many others) to fulfil my childhood dreams (and nightmares! ) of being a ruler, from a despot to a benevolent king, from a fat slob (oh, wait!) to an immortal member of a warrior's lodge. From a lunatic sleeping with his horse to an enlightened genius dying of small pox at the age of 21. I mean, thanks for all the stories (many time hilarious ones), all the fun and all your care. Please do not stop, I want to hear more!


P.S. Dobrava of Kiev is OP waifu, change my mind!

 

[Coalsack]

I'm all about making Alexandria an OP county trough wonders or otherwise. It was the second largest city on the ancient ages, it was caught in a string of bad luck during the middle Ages (sacks, eartquakes, tsunamis). I'm still on my idea of re-greening Alexandria and other Egyptian coastal counties (Quattara depression lake, anyione) and doing some event involving Alexander's body and the Soma. Maybe "rediscovering" it, if you have his bloodiline, or bringing it back from Venice if you're on the Crusades timeframe (It's suspected that St Marcus body, stored on Venice's cathedral, was actually Alexander, disguised as such for the early christian church in an attempt to gain over the local pagan population and absorb the local cult of Alexander).

 

[Al Davoodi]

I wanna just build a huge statue of Venus aka Aphrodite okay maybe we can celebrate the Festival in her honor as a especially lustful hellenic ruler to create troube in the relationships i mean erm get a piety boost....

 

[Zalmoxis]

How about demon worshiper wonders? Lets consecrated a great church of Satan!