The Real Problems With Stellaris

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MichaelJanuary

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I can only speak for myself, and personally, suspension of disbelief only goes so far. I do require or expect a degree of immersion.

That is not to say I expect my version of reality. Now, I was disappointed when Stellaris introduced leviathans, because that's quite far outside my concept of realism in space, but I accept it because .... hey, who knows. Maybe space fauna do exist.

One of (the many) things that I feel disappointed in, is that space warfare in Stellaris is so one dimensional. No, I am not talking graphics or three dimensional space. No. I am talking about how everybody conducts war the exact same way using the exact same ship types and weapon loadouts. It's fine as far as it goes, but I really miss asymmetrical warfare. The differences in Stellaris aliens are too cosmetic.

Some years ago I played a web based space 4x game that had 10 alien species, and they all had unique mechanics that were interesting. One specialized in ship capture, another had shields that could reflect damage back at the attacker, a third had bonus to movement and evasion. Others had economic bonuses to credit or mineral production. The devouring horde species felt like a devouring horde, their combat mechanism was to literally salvage the minerals out of enemy ships when in combat, while the machine empire species was a research monster and would literally salvage the tech points out of enemy ships in combat. The warrior species had huge bonuses to shield penetration and damage. Each species had a unique planet hab measured in terms of temperature, water, atmosphere, so terraforming planets was also a thing. And it had free interstellar movement with a limited range (no hyperlanes), so intercepting enemy fleets was a major element of gameplay. All ship classes from corvettes to battleships to dreadnought had a role, or area of specialsation. Each alien species felt unique, different, and powerful.

Compared to Stellaris, that game was streets ahead. I actually felt disappointed by the lack of diversity and imagination in Stellaris.
 
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The game have some problems, but first play it in a roleplay MP and you will really enjoy the game.

Stellaris is a huge game, can be perfect with the years, and with every change the game is better.
 
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I actually said you were making fun of the other poster's literacy, which is to say reading comprehension, not the other poster's grammar.

And now you've failed at that, too.


Seriously, we're going to need some kind of online course in how to condescend properly.

EDIT: This is not an offer to run any such online course.

Ah, yes, the typical reddit keyboard warriors. My only mistake was the incorrect usage of to as too. What a heinous crime!

Honestly, your input means nothing to me.
 
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Immersion matters, but fun matters more. If a mechanic is tedious then it needs to be reformed or removed no matter how much someone thinks it accurately models their vision of how interstellar war would actually go.

This, 100%. The game was less tedious before 2.2. It has more depth now and better represents actual economic behaviour, but it's less fun and more busywork to keep humming now.
 
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I can only speak for myself, and personally, suspension of disbelief only goes so far. I do require or expect a degree of immersion.

That is not to say I expect my version of reality. Now, I was disappointed when Stellaris introduced leviathans, because that's quite far outside my concept of realism in space, but I accept it because .... hey, who knows. Maybe space fauna do exist.

One of (the many) things that I feel disappointed in, is that space warfare in Stellaris is so one dimensional. No, I am not talking graphics or three dimensional space. No. I am talking about how everybody conducts war the exact same way using the exact same ship types and weapon loadouts. It's fine as far as it goes, but I really miss asymmetrical warfare. The differences in Stellaris aliens are too cosmetic.

Some years ago I played a web based space 4x game that had 10 alien species, and they all had unique mechanics that were interesting. One specialized in ship capture, another had shields that could reflect damage back at the attacker, a third had bonus to movement and evasion. Others had economic bonuses to credit or mineral production. The devouring horde species felt like a devouring horde, their combat mechanism was to literally salvage the minerals out of enemy ships when in combat, while the machine empire species was a research monster and would literally salvage the tech points out of enemy ships in combat. The warrior species had huge bonuses to shield penetration and damage. Each species had a unique planet hab measured in terms of temperature, water, atmosphere, so terraforming planets was also a thing. And it had free interstellar movement with a limited range (no hyperlanes), so intercepting enemy fleets was a major element of gameplay. All ship classes from corvettes to battleships to dreadnought had a role, or area of specialsation. Each alien species felt unique, different, and powerful.

Compared to Stellaris, that game was streets ahead. I actually felt disappointed by the lack of diversity and imagination in Stellaris.

Personally, I think that an expansion of ship design would benefit.

First off, rewards and special technologies if you specialize in one or two weapon types. Specialize in Lasers? Get new types of lasers, like fusion beams and more energy weapons. Focus on Ballistic weapons, get more types of them, such as a hybrid between railgun and autocannon. Also, specialization in armor/shields. Maybe you sacrifice shielding for much better armor thatasts longer.

Secondly, I would like to see benefits to fleet doctrine choices, maybe if you choose to use battleships as your main damage dealers and corvettes and destroyers as pickett ships, you could get benefits to all your ships as long as you keep them in that purpose. Have admirals specialize in certain fleet doctrines.
 
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This, 100%. The game was less tedious before 2.2. It has more depth now and better represents actual economic behaviour, but it's less fun and more busywork to keep humming now.
Personally, I don't find it tedious in an boring way: it's something to do between wars. I have four Archologies, a ringworld and a little over a dozen other planets, mainly resource planets and planets to underdeveloped to form into Archologies.
 

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Personally, I don't find it tedious in an boring way: it's something to do between wars. I have four Archologies, a ringworld and a little over a dozen other planets, mainly resource planets and planets to underdeveloped to form into Archologies.

Being able to automate more of it away would be nice - imagine if you could design a planet like you design a ship, and the AI would just build toward that design automatically.

Also, unpopular opinion: factions are useless and add very little to the gameplay, while having a significant impact on pops calculations, since pops need to be separated by faction (as this affects happiness). They should be removed from the game altogether (gestalts already don't have them).
 
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Biggest performance hog are likely jobs, since you are expected to have as many as you have pops and the game periodically checks every pop's weight for every job, which means the calculation burden scales with the square of population. I do think though that having individual pops is currently not adding enough gameplay value to justify their existence.
 
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War is and always has been just a measurement of your ability to produce. Nothing has changed.
Sounds like Stellaris is working as intended. This is and always has been what war is about in the real world. And it's the reason why the soviet planned economy defeated the German capitalist slave labour economy in battle, despite having less tanks and planes on the field at the start of the war.

And my experience has been the same in Stellaris. I OFTEN lose the first battle when playing utopian abundance and not starting off with the largest fleet. But after invading deep into my territory, the enemy suddenly realizes I have an extremely deep economy and massive shipyards which churn out new fleets multiple times, and the war is a dragged out affair but comes to a satisfying comeback victory.

I'm really not sure what people are complaining about, game's great. Paradox is working on the right things, fixing pop growth to carrying capacity, cutting pops in half, introducing new diplomacy and spy mechanics as well as fog of war, and eventually hopefully some more ideology system stuff and internal politics.

I'd really love some more political federation mechanics, like ideological requirements for joining, federation living standard laws etc...
 
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The game have some problems, but first play it in a roleplay MP and you will really enjoy the game.

Stellaris MP started good for me but quickly made all the bugbears with the game stand out. Certain empire types always start dominating, even if the players is relatively new to the game. Small empires fall behind and can never keep up, and are effectively useless for big empires to care about, causing players to leave. This creates samey scenarios and starts making everyone else want to 'power game' more to try and force a different galactic outcome.
 
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Being able to automate more of it away would be nice - imagine if you could design a planet like you design a ship, and the AI would just build toward that design automatically.

Also, unpopular opinion: factions are useless and add very little to the gameplay, while having a significant impact on pops calculations, since pops need to be separated by faction (as this affects happiness). They should be removed from the game altogether (gestalts already don't have them).

First off, I don't trust PDX AI farther than I can throw them.

Secondly, your opinion on Factions isn't unpopular. Maybe we could turn those into political parties and movements of change. If enough people believe in a faction, they should be able to force your hand, encouraging players to keep their preferred factions strong.

For instance, maybe a religious monarchy has a lot of people protesting for secularism and a more democratic form of government. You could, through decisions, events, unity ambitions, edicts, and buildings, increase the prestige of your religious faction, having the Temples not only be places of worship, but sites of true majesty and awe, inspiring a sense of wonder in your citizens. Maybe some style of Catholic Counter Reformation type event, in which you revive your state's religious and conservative values.

This would be great, because maybe it would expanded upon individual ethics as well. Maybe, as a counter to the big bonuses Technocracies bring, the player can design their own religion, and use it to unite their people. Make it more than just a statistic, but a tool. Have it increase morale of armies, birth rate or increase the happiness of workers by encouraging the donation of alms to the poor. Bringing aliens into the fold and having them baptized in a sense, or having them go through a trial by fire.

Maybe this could fit into the next espionage update: where you aren't just focusing on espionage and counter-espionage, but also propaganda and forcing your ethics on other nations reliant on you, like subjects, as well as the leader of federations imposing their ethics in the members. You could use propaganda to spread an interest in your ethics into rival nations, slowly converting them from the inside out.
 

MichaelJanuary

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Maybe, as a counter to the big bonuses Technocracies bring, the player can design their own religion, and use it to unite their people.
I rather like the concept of designed religions. It was the only part of the religion mechanic in Civ that I liked. Designing my own pantheon.
 

MrReaper182

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Sounds like Stellaris is working as intended. This is and always has been what war is about in the real world. And it's the reason why the soviet planned economy defeated the German capitalist slave labour economy in battle, despite having less tanks and planes on the field at the start of the war.

And my experience has been the same in Stellaris. I OFTEN lose the first battle when playing utopian abundance and not starting off with the largest fleet. But after invading deep into my territory, the enemy suddenly realizes I have an extremely deep economy and massive shipyards which churn out new fleets multiple times, and the war is a dragged out affair but comes to a satisfying comeback victory.

I'm really not sure what people are complaining about, game's great. Paradox is working on the right things, fixing pop growth to carrying capacity, cutting pops in half, introducing new diplomacy and spy mechanics as well as fog of war, and eventually hopefully some more ideology system stuff and internal politics.

I'd really love some more political federation mechanics, like ideological requirements for joining, federation living standard laws etc...

The thing is with the internet it gives a voice to people who think they know all but have zero idea what they are talking about. That about sums up 85 percent of people who comment on the Stellaris side of this forum.
 
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Malecord

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The thing is with the internet it gives a voice to people who think they know all but have zero idea what they are talking about. That about sums up 85 percent of people who comment on the Stellaris side of this forum.

Talking dissatisfaction is legit feedback nonetheless. You can't pretend that every player is a designer able to turn critic into a sound game design. That's dev job.

An issue is objectively an issue even if the guy who recognized it is unable to provide a solution or an alternative. Otherwise this would be a forum restricted to internal employees.
 
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Nocty1501

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Talking dissatisfaction is legit feedback nonetheless. You can't pretend that every player is a designer able to turn critic into a sound game design. That's dev job.

An issue is objectively an issue even if the guy who recognized it is unable to provide a solution or an alternative. Otherwise this would be a forum restricted to internal employees.

Very well said.
 
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methegrate

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Talking dissatisfaction is legit feedback nonetheless. You can't pretend that every player is a designer able to turn critic into a sound game design. That's dev job.

An issue is objectively an issue even if the guy who recognized it is unable to provide a solution or an alternative. Otherwise this would be a forum restricted to internal employees.

Great way of putting it.

You don't need to be a plumber to know the faucet is leaking.
 
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CrazyJ

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Talking dissatisfaction is legit feedback nonetheless. You can't pretend that every player is a designer able to turn critic into a sound game design. That's dev job.

An issue is objectively an issue even if the guy who recognized it is unable to provide a solution or an alternative. Otherwise this would be a forum restricted to internal employees.
I'm quoting this next time i run into one of those idiots who refuse to acknowledge an obvious problem because the person reporting it doesn't provide a solution. those people always make me wish i could reach though a computer screen and slap them
 
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methegrate

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And my experience has been the same in Stellaris. I OFTEN lose the first battle when playing utopian abundance and not starting off with the largest fleet. But after invading deep into my territory, the enemy suddenly realizes I have an extremely deep economy and massive shipyards which churn out new fleets multiple times, and the war is a dragged out affair but comes to a satisfying comeback victory.

That's fair. It certainly sounds like you're getting the experience they intended with warfare in the game.

Personally, that has never been my experience. I can't think of a single game where a war has gone back and forth, or where one side stages a come-from-behind victory. For me, warfare tends to be one-and-done. Whoever wins the first large engagement generally goes on to win the rest of the war, with everything else just being mop up.

But if you have a different experience that's terrific! It sounds like for whatever reason, the game's mechanics are clicking and working as intended for you.
 
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