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    Real Strategy Requires Cunning

naggy

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How can Portugal snag a province? If they capture one, but you demand full annexation, you'd get them all anyway, right?

As Chief Savage Ma said, you can't demand annexation if your ally controls a province of the target's. Updated AAR with a note.

This reminds me of a question. I've noticed when fighting with allies, and they take a province, in the demand tribute screen, I can demand that province, but I get the infamy. I assumed that meant that I'd get the province (and so haven't done it, I'm watching my BB). Is there any way in negotiations for my allies to get those provinces they captured themselves?

Allies can (and often do) make their own negotiations to get provinces in wars. Vassals and lesser partners in unions cannot.

You cannot demand full annexation unless you control every single province of theirs. If an ally controls one, you have to wait until they declare peace and then capture that province for yourself to annex the nation.

Correct. I've updated the AAR to note how your allies can be frustrating in this manner. :)
 

spl

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This is an excellent AAR, I wish one like it was here when I started. :eek:

I actually learned some things about warfare too, even though I've been playing EU3 for ... some three years. :eek:o
 

thebigj_a

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Allies can (and often do) make their own negotiations to get provinces in wars. Vassals and lesser partners in unions cannot.

I know, what I'm saying is, if I'm the leader of a war, I either make peace for my whole side, in which case I get everything and my allies get nothing, or wait around for my "allies" abandon the war before me, accruing WE all the while. It makes no sense. There should be a way for my allies to get things in the peace I make. In a real life war, a winning alliance generally holds together, then everybody divvies up the spoils. What the game is modelling is a system where every country either cuts and runs, or sticks around and gets screwed (except the leader).
 

Lacunaa

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Great stuff for the intermediate player like myself! I only fear the game will become absurdly easy now I know all these tactics :p
 

naggy

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I know, what I'm saying is, if I'm the leader of a war, I either make peace for my whole side, in which case I get everything and my allies get nothing, or wait around for my "allies" abandon the war before me, accruing WE all the while. It makes no sense.

I would put this in the expansion idea thread - this is a tutorial AAR, not an EU3 improvement thread.

My big hope would be that V2's war goal system should help the devs code more realistic AI war deals. If they can then backend that into EU3 in the next expansion, then perhaps they could put a council of Vienna type peace system in.
 

King Nothing

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I know, what I'm saying is, if I'm the leader of a war, I either make peace for my whole side, in which case I get everything and my allies get nothing, or wait around for my "allies" abandon the war before me, accruing WE all the while. It makes no sense. There should be a way for my allies to get things in the peace I make. In a real life war, a winning alliance generally holds together, then everybody divvies up the spoils. What the game is modelling is a system where every country either cuts and runs, or sticks around and gets screwed (except the leader).

Two things here..
1. If you make peace for a province in a peace deal that an ally of yours have control of, they will get the province but you will get the infamy. So if you want you could give them provinces but you will pay the price for them.
2. Why are you gaining WE if you have already won the war? Then you are clearly doing something wrong.. Do you take out war taxes? Stop them then. Do you get it from attrition? Move away your troops from those bad lands then.
 

thebigj_a

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1. If you make peace for a province in a peace deal that an ally of yours have control of, they will get the province but you will get the infamy. So if you want you could give them provinces but you will pay the price for them.

Thank you for answering the question I should have flat-out asked, but didn't due to my tendency to be overly verbose. :)
 

lordkestrel

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Good read, I'll be sending this on to friends that have asked how combat works in EU3, as I'm not eloquent enough to explain it :)
 

naggy

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I hope to continue tomorrow - my 'net connection at home was shot, so I've only been able to log on from work, or via wi-fi on my work laptop (obviously, no EU3 there). We're back up, so the fun can continue!
 

naggy

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Chapter 9
The Conquest of Ireland

After conquering Scotland, I now have 3 likely missions: Recover Normandy, Conquer Ireland, and Occupy Paris. I really want Occupy Paris, so of course, that's not what the AI gives me.

ct9conqireland.png


Oh well. At least I got this mission second, and not first, and that France still has no navy worth mentioning. I can easily conquer Ireland whilst mooning the French from across the channel. :)

On January 1st, 1402, France tries to sneak past my navy with 2 transports, which are sunk instantly. --- Don't try to sneak transports past a large fleet. If you absolutely have to get your transports somewhere, and can't beat the enemy fleet, you can sacrifice your warships to hold off the enemy fleet while your transports drop troops off and run home... ---

There are several options for the invasion of Ireland. I choose the simplest: DoW all 4 ASAP and start the sieges, then clear out their accumulated armies from Meath. The reason for DoWing all at once, is because the AI sometimes will guarantee a mission target if you wait, and I don't want to bring even more nations in. Even so, Brittany has guaranteed Munster, so I'll have to smack the Bretons around.

I land in Ulster, then spread out my army - 2 regiments in each province because they're building new units, and the rest into Meath to hammer the enemy armies.

ct9invadeireland.png


Unsurprisingly 4 disconnected armies with 6000 total men don't last long against my 8000 men led with a good general.

Other options:
* Assault your way from Ulster to Leinster using your full army. Since France is occupying 2 of my provinces, I get a little WE every month anyway from that. I want to avoid unnecessary WE.
* Land your full army in Meath, run down the armies, then split off and siege. I chose not to do this, as I want the sieges done ASAP.

On September 22, my general, Robert Knowles, dies. Generals love to die right before you need them.

November 7: Ulster surrenders, and Tyrone is Annexed. Due to my Conquest CB, each annexation will only be 2 infamy, rather than 8 otherwise.

February 9: Leinster surrenders and is annexed.

April 1: Munster is annexed. My WE is still rising slightly due to my 2 French provinces being occupied, but I need my entire army together to take out France.

April 18: In Connaught, I get a breach in the walls, and choose to assault. My thinking here is that time > a trivial amount of manpower and morale that will regenerate before I land in France.

The choice between siege and assault should be made based on the following criteria:
* time - do I have time to sit around and besiege the province, and can I afford having these men doing nothing?
* protection - will my besieging army be in danger from large enemy armies coming through?
* # of enemies - how many countries am I fighting? Assaulting a nation's capital and taking it quickly can get them out of the war much faster, which lets you then turn around and use your army against your remaining enemies. When making this determination, consider a nation that you have a truce with but that will probably attack when the truce is up as an enemy.
* manpower and WE - Assaults can eat through your men, especially if you don't have an 8:1+ numerical advantage. That can sap your manpower, and increase WE.
* morale - A failed assault leaves all of your infantry with 0 morale, and thus a tempting target for the AI. --- The AI will almost always attack you after a failed assault. Always keep some cavalry with your infantry so you have troops with morale, who may be able to hold off the enemy until you can retreat. ---
* Breached wall - If a breach has occurred in the wall, your assault will be much more likely to succeed. Note: Having artillery help in a siege increases the likelihood of getting breaches.
* Bankruptcy - If the enemy has been bankrupt in the last 5 years, they have absolute crap morale, and their forts will easily fall to assault.

Later, I'll show you a nice trick to help you handle assaults...

Since I have cavalry around to cover me, no enemy armies that can get to me, I can assault without fear.

April 27: Connaught falls, and Ireland is conquered. I get free cores, which means no nationalism! I only have nationalism in the 2 Highland Scottish provinces, and they're poor, meaning small rebellions.

ct9annexireland.png


Notes:
* If you get the Conquer Ireland mission first, before Conquer Scotland, invade Ireland fast and assault your way through the provinces. You want to complete the mission before France has a chance to declare a war of Reconquest on you (which brings in her vassals!).
* If Burgundy was allied to Scotland, they'll occupy Calais. However, they seem to like leaving small armies there (1-4k), so while you're waiting for sieges in Ireland, you may be able to invade long enough to kill that small army and load back on the ships. You take no attrition for entering the province and doing battle, and you'll cause them some free WE and nuisance. Same goes for France in Normandy and Caux. Only try this tactic if they don't have another army in a neighboring seaside province.
 
Last edited:

naggy

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I referenced your AAR in mine, naggy. Your tactics and explanations really helped in my last war. :)

Glad to know I'm helping! (For those interested, he's talking about this entry. It's using the popular Magna Mundi mod, but CatKnight's wonderful writing makes it easy to follow.)

That was damn fast. :p

No sense wasting time! My personal view is that once you master the military and economic parts of the game, time and infamy are your most important resources.
 

dinofs

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Here's hoping for Occupy Paris!
 

naggy

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Chapter 10
The Occupation of Paris, part 1

With Scotland and Ireland brought to heel, God now demands the occupation of Paris. A quick check of our Land Tech shows we cannot build panzers just yet, so we'll have to do this the old fashioned way...

ct10occupyparis.png


A quick check of the war's status: it's now just England vs. France, and France has occupied Labourd and Gascogne. --- If a nation has >15 WE, they are in danger of losing any occupied provinces that are not their culture. A somewhat rare event may fire if the occupier has <5 WE that will cause the province to defect. ---

Our armies rest in Kent to prepare for the invasion of France, who has 8000 men guarding Normandie. We have 7 regiments being trained to join our main army in France, because France can draw on a significant amount of manpower.

ct10normandie.png


Since Burgundy is not in the war, we ask for (and receive) military access on June 23rd. This does let us pass through Burgundy's lands, but their supply limits are too low to avoid attrition. (Ignore the supply limit of 2 - it hadn't refreshed when I took the shot. The mouseover is the correct calculation...). Our plan - land in Picardie, march through Cambray, and storm Paris!

ct10burgundyma.png

ct10slcambray.png


Since we have no general, we now convert our ruler to general. Try to balance tradition with need to determine when you convert your ruler: their stats are based on a combination of their military rating and your tradition. If you convert while you have 0 tradition, they'll be a crap general, but if you have no generals, this may be necessary. In this case, we have low tradition, and Henry IV is not a military genius, but we get lucky - both pips go to shock!

ct10tradition.png


Army Tradition is gained by:
* Winning battles (half as much from rebels)
* Exploring land provinces
* Winning sieges (.5 tradition/siege).
* Building the War College building (+1 tradition/yr)
* Taking the Battlefield Commissions NI (+1 tradition/yr)
* Getting the Veterans Home provincial event (.5 tradition/yr - requires >3 WE, peace, and province must border national focus - can happen in multiple provinces!)
* Some events

A percentage of army tradition is lost each year (more so when at peace than war). Since tradition is gained in absolutes and lost in percentages, having a constant source of tradition will result in an equilibrium forming. For example, if you have Battlefield Commissions, your tradition will balance out at around 33.

Naval tradition is gained in a similar manner, but is generally not considered nearly as important.

On September 10, we get a revolt of Scottish Nationalists in Western Isles. Nationalist rebels seek to form a new nation (patriots are similar, but wish to defect to an existing nation), and will declare independence if they manage to occupy a province for 3 years. Since it takes about 1 year to siege a province, I have a couple of years before I absolutely have to go do something.

ct10wirebels.png


Our army arrives in Paris, only to find an army of 9 regiments headed by Charles VI there. --- The AI will move its generals around, just like you can. A general can only move from army to army if they are in a friendly or neutral owned/occupied territory and not in retreat. ---

Since we outnumber them almost 2:1, we'll try and swat them out of the way. For some reason, the army in Normandie just stands around watching.

ct10battleofparis.png


1.) No shock modifiers are shown, because Henry and Charles both have a shock rating of 2, so they cancel out. (If you mouse over the general's name in the battle screen, you can see his stats.)
2.) We luck out and fight in the plains, so there are no terrain modifiers. Ile de France's terrain is about 60/40 forest/plains. To see the terrain makeup of a province, open the Terrain Mapmode and mouseover the province.

ct10paristerrain.png


Success! We kick the French king out of Paris. The battle's result is good on many levels - we get decent tradition, cause almost a full point of WE to France, and kill well over twice as many troops.

ct10battleofparisend.png


The French army retreats to Normandy, so we pursue, hoping for the kill. Had they fled east or south, I would not have pursued - I do not want to end up trapped inside France where I might lose my army.

ct10battleofnormandie.png


(The first French army's regiments are not in the battle here, because they had 0 morale when the battle started.)
 
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King Nothing

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Just one note on the veterans home. It looks like a juicy event to try to provoke for yourself, but it has 1800 months average time before it happens. That's 150 years, so it's not as easy as it looks like. :)

It could also be said that if nationalist rebels succeed in the siege they will make the revolt risk go up for another 10 years, so even if they haven't got time to defect it's not good to let them win the siege..

And a question. This early in the game, would it really be faster to assault the four irish provinces than sieging them? Wouldn't you probably have to wait 2-3 months between each assault both for the morale and for the men to reinforce, failing an assault isn't that uncommon either and with 4 provinces that would end up close to a year. Sieges of level 1 forts are often a lot quicker than that... Or are you just swimming in infantry even that early in the game? :)

I saw you said 1 year for a siege also. Average for a level 1 fort is a lot closer to half a year... In a test I did I had 13 sieges going against 4 different countries and the average siege time was 190 days. That was without artillery and general. So it's pretty close to half a year on average.
 

naggy

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Just one note on the veterans home. It looks like a juicy event to try to provoke for yourself, but it has 1800 months average time before it happens.

Yup. I've had it fire for me one time since the event was added.

It could also be said that if nationalist rebels succeed in the siege they will make the revolt risk go up for another 10 years, so even if they haven't got time to defect it's not good to let them win the siege..

Pah. It's Western Isles, not Paris revolting. Besides, when I form GB, I get a core and nationalism goes away. ;)

And a question. This early in the game, would it really be faster to assault the four irish provinces than sieging them? Wouldn't you probably have to wait 2-3 months between each assault both for the morale and for the men to reinforce, failing an assault isn't that uncommon either and with 4 provinces that would end up close to a year. Sieges of level 1 forts are often a lot quicker than that... Or are you just swimming in infantry even that early in the game? :)

Well, prepping for fighting France, I have about 15000 infantry. In my tests in Ireland, assaulting got me done about 20% quicker.

I saw you said 1 year for a siege also. Average for a level 1 fort is a lot closer to half a year... In a test I did I had 13 sieges going against 4 different countries and the average siege time was 190 days. That was without artillery and general. So it's pretty close to half a year on average.

Oops. You're right...before defensiveness. :)
 

sprites

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you didn't wait to form GB and annex ireland BB-free? :D
 

Enewald

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2k men to siege each Normandy province, rest to Paris?
 

King Nothing

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Pah. It's Western Isles, not Paris revolting. Besides, when I form GB, I get a core and nationalism goes away. ;)

But it's still an important thing to know, it could have been Paris. :)
Will nationalism go away when you get a core afterward? I didn't think it did.. But that basically never happens to me anyway so. :p

Well, prepping for fighting France, I have about 15000 infantry. In my tests in Ireland, assaulting got me done about 20% quicker.

Oops. You're right...before defensiveness. :)

Ahh.. If you have that many I can imagine it's faster. But you were talking about if you got that mission first. Then you would have trouble to get that many footsoldiers I would imagine. :)

And most AI nations are somewhere in the middle of the offensive-defensive slider so the average will pan out around half a year. No need to rush with assaults that will get your WE to jump up if sieges are faster. :)