The Hohenzollern Empire 5: Holy Phoenix - An Empire of Jerusalem Megacampaign in New World Order

[GhostRider124]

I don't think they would go as far as to declare a new nation, just an "Indian Empire" rump state in the northwest.

I changed the name back to Indian Empire.

What's stopping the Princely Federation from just rejoining Delhi? That it's more aligned with China?

The Princely Federation is lead by a group of Rajahs who view the Paramara family's supposed incompetence as having been a major reason India lost the war and think that they would do a better job at running the country themselves. However due to the rebellion's in the south and the Paramara loyalist in the west they ended up with less territory then they would like. In order to supply their armies and protect themselves from revolutionary forces they have a (in their minds at least) temporary alliance with China. If they are able to unite India there is a good possibility they could break free, however they do run the risk of China intervening and breaking up the country again.

While I'm okay with it, maybe try finding a name to replace Bharatiya Commune?

I changed the name to People's Republic of India. I did that because a submod for The New Order has a People's Republic of India still under Bose. you can find it on The New Order Reddit under "The New Order Submod: Yomo no Umi - People's Republic of India Starting Introduction".

The Emperor is still Purandaradasa, right? He would be well over 100 by now, so maybe his death would set off a succession crisis between his children.

Yea I think he could be like OTL's George V who in our universes Kaiserreich dies fairly early into the game. This could lead to a succession crisis in were depending on who wins (I do not remember how many kids he had at this time) could lead to the Indian Empire allying with the Princely Federation against the syndicalist or trying to take over the other factions by force.

 

[TWR97]

This Indian update is nice, I was thinking as to what sort of enemy the Chinese were gonna face since in Tianxia they pretty much are stable, the possibility of a Syndicalist India emerging victorious in the struggle is sure to be an interesting enemy for the Chinese empire to face.

 

[GhostRider124]

This Indian update is nice, I was thinking as to what sort of enemy the Chinese were gonna face since in Tianxia they pretty much are stable, the possibility of a Syndicalist India emerging victorious in the struggle is sure to be an interesting enemy for the Chinese empire to face.

I sort of see things in Tianxia going one of two ways.

One the Syndicalist win in Europe and India leading to a Cold War between the Chinese Tianxia Alliance, a National Populist alliance lead by Russia, two separate Syndicalist alliances with one in Europe and one in Asia lead by India and a possible Eimerica Confederation lead by Fox like how the HOI4 mod Krasnacht: Twilight of the Gods, which is a fan-made sequel to Kaiserreich imagining a Cold War in were the German Empire and Entente lost the Second World War and a Syndicalist West and National Populist East compete.

Or it could be similar to Kalterkrieg: Shadow of the Second Weltkrieg another fan-made sequel to Kaiserreich but instead the German Empire wins again and is in a Cold War with a revised Entente compete.

 

[CaptainAlvious]

Very interesting scenario for India. I also like how you included Nepal in this update as well @GhostRider124. Great update, I’m excited to see where else you will be going.

Inspired by Albion and Gaul

I guess these are syndicalist as well, like Britain and France in OTL Kaisereich. This is pretty ironic since Zen described Britainnia and Gallia (and the other Western European provinces) as pretty conservative a few times in this AAR. I think I even imagined them as being conservative states in my old notes on this thread, tho I don’t mind this retcon. I guess we’ll have to wait till we reach Europe in a few updates for this to be elaborated on, but I’m intrigued regardless.

I also noticed that orange colored state next to the Indian Empire controlling OTL Pakistan/the Indus. I’m guessing that’s either Turkestan or Persia.

 

[GhostRider124]

I guess these are syndicalist as well, like Britain and France in OTL Kaisereich. This is pretty ironic since Zen described Britainnia and Gallia (and the other Western European provinces) as pretty conservative a few times in this AAR. I think I even imagined them as being conservative states in my old notes on this thread. I guess we’ll have to wait till we reach Europe for this to be elaborated on, but I’m curios regardless.

Yea. A part of me is thinking about making them syndicalist like OTL so that it is not all conservative. It would also give the proposed syndicalist state in the Rhineland a chance because I do not think that it could challenge the combined power of Albion, Gaul, and Germania alone even with the former Reich's industry in shambles.

 

[CaptainAlvious]

Yea. A part of me is thinking about making them syndicalist like OTL so that it is not all conservative. It would also give the proposed syndicalist state in the Rhineland a chance because I do not think that it could challenge the combined power of Albion, Gaul, and Germania alone even with the former Reich's industry in shambles.

Fair enough. To be honest, this is probably for the best since my old ideas for the divided Reich in retrospect didn’t really leave room for a cohesive and strong leftist bloc and had too many monarchies and right-leaning republics in Europe. This might even be more interesting as I could see the indigenous French embracing syndicalism as a rallying cause to break their centuries of oppression by the Germans.

I guess that’s it for Karl von Gallia’s French republic or Karling/Sigmaringen Kingdom unfortunately, unless we create a non-syndicalist Aquantine nation in the south or make von Gallia a syndicalist, tho the latter option might be a stretch.

 

[zenphoenix]

The Princely Federation is lead by a group of Rajahs who view the Paramara family's supposed incompetence as having been a major reason India lost the war and think that they would do a better job at running the country themselves. However due to the rebellion's in the south and the Paramara loyalist in the west they ended up with less territory then they would like. In order to supply their armies and protect themselves from revolutionary forces they have a (in their minds at least) temporary alliance with China. If they are able to unite India there is a good possibility they could break free, however they do run the risk of China intervening and breaking up the country again.

There could be a scenario where the AI takes the wrong choices and the country explodes into warlords, provinces that join the syndicalists, and parts that are annexed by China.

Yea I think he could be like OTL's George V who in our universes Kaiserreich dies fairly early into the game. This could lead to a succession crisis in were depending on who wins (I do not remember how many kids he had at this time) could lead to the Indian Empire allying with the Princely Federation against the syndicalist or trying to take over the other factions by force.

He had at least 2 or 3 kids from what I remember, and there were a lot of grandchildren so that generation could also cause a lot of chaos. Maybe we could bring in Nemo since he was one of Purandaradasa's youngest sons.

This Indian update is nice, I was thinking as to what sort of enemy the Chinese were gonna face since in Tianxia they pretty much are stable, the possibility of a Syndicalist India emerging victorious in the struggle is sure to be an interesting enemy for the Chinese empire to face.

So a similar dynamic with the Ming and India vs syndicalist China in Volkerschlacht.

One the Syndicalist win in Europe and India leading to a Cold War between the Chinese Tianxia Alliance, a National Populist alliance lead by Russia, two separate Syndicalist alliances with one in Europe and one in Asia lead by India and a possible Eimerica Confederation lead by Fox like how the HOI4 mod Krasnacht: Twilight of the Gods, which is a fan-made sequel to Kaiserreich imagining a Cold War in were the German Empire and Entente lost the Second World War and a Syndicalist West and National Populist East compete.

Or it could be similar to Kalterkrieg: Shadow of the Second Weltkrieg another fan-made sequel to Kaiserreich but instead the German Empire wins again and is in a Cold War with a revised Entente compete.

Maybe we could have both Krasnacht and Kalterkrieg scenarios for both mods.

Yea. A part of me is thinking about making them syndicalist like OTL so that it is not all conservative. It would also give the proposed syndicalist state in the Rhineland a chance because I do not think that it could challenge the combined power of Albion, Gaul, and Germania alone even with the former Reich's industry in shambles.

Yeah, the Rhineland alone would be easily crushed by its neighbors.

Fair enough. To be honest, this is probably for the best since my old ideas for the divided Reich in retrospect didn’t really leave room for a cohesive leftist bloc and had too many monarchies and right-leaning republics in Europe. This might even be more interesting as I could see the indigenous French embracing syndicalism as a rallying cause to break their centuries of oppression by the Germans.

I guess that’s it for Karl von Gallia’s French republic or Karling Kingdom unfortunately, unless we create a non-syndicalist Aquantine nation in the south or make von Gallia a syndicalist, tho the latter option might be a stretch.

Karl von Gallia probably won't be a syndicalist, even though a lot of French would be sympathetic to its ideals as a way to break free of the Germans.

 

[GhostRider124]

I guess that’s it for Karl von Gallia’s French republic or Karling/Sigmaringen Kingdom unfortunately, unless we create a non-syndicalist Aquantine nation in the south or make von Gallia a syndicalist, tho the latter option might be a stretch.

Karl von Gallia probably won't be a syndicalist, even though a lot of French would be sympathetic to its ideals as a way to break free of the Germans.

They could probably escape to Germania which is still lead by the Hohenzollern's as told in previous discussions and be reinstated after the Second World War. I think I will have Germania as the leader of a coalition consisting of the conservative provinces like Carpathia and Hispania. Mabey Dacia but Dacia in Kaiserreich are under the Iron Guard and in previous discussions Greece and Anatolia I think are under a right-wing religious government.

 

[CaptainAlvious]

They could probably escape to Germania which is still lead by the Hohenzollern's as told in previous discussions and be reinstated after the Second World War. I think I will have Germania as the leader of a coalition consisting of the conservative provinces like Carpathia and Hispania. Mabey Dacia but Dacia in Kaiserreich are under the Iron Guard and in previous discussions Greece and Anatolia I think are under a right-wing religious government.

Good idea to have Prussia/Germania be the haven for exiled nobility from syndicalist countries. I also had Germany divided into four nations previously, with a ultra capitalist Hanseatic League, a conservative meritocratic Prussian monarchy in the north, a democratic and socially progressive south Germanic state (they’d probably be still quite religious as well since I recall both the Templars and Teutonics in CK2 were based in Bavaria), and a syndicalist state in the Rhineland. I wonder what you think of this idea and if you would divide up Germania differently?

 

[zenphoenix]

They could probably escape to Germania which is still lead by the Hohenzollern's as told in previous discussions and be reinstated after the Second World War. I think I will have Germania as the leader of a coalition consisting of the conservative provinces like Carpathia and Hispania. Mabey Dacia but Dacia in Kaiserreich are under the Iron Guard and in previous discussions Greece and Anatolia I think are under a right-wing religious government.

The conservatives shouldn't also have a united front. Since they're scattered across Europe, some might be hostile towards each other or have different political systems and ideologies.

 

[zenphoenix]

Good idea to have Prussia/Germania be the haven for exiled nobility from syndicalist countries. I also had Germany divided into four nations previously, with a ultra capitalist Hanseatic League, a conservative meritocratic Prussia in the north, a democratic and socially progressive south Germanic state (they’d probably be still quite religious as well since I recall both the Templars and Teutonics in CK2 were based in Bavaria), and a syndicalist state in the Rhineland. I wonder what you think of this idea and if you would divide up Germania differently?

Sounds about right, which would be ironic as Bavaria has always been my equivalent of Texas.

 

[CaptainAlvious]

Sounds about right, which would be ironic as Bavaria has always been my equivalent of Texas

Not to mention you seem to have landed both the Teutonics and Templars within Bavaria in CK2 as well, which I mentioned in my previous post. In fairness, social norms in any region aren’t static, and can even be dynamic given the right circumstances, and I imagine the mass cultural anxiety following World War 1 and the collapse of the Reich would be one of those circumstances. Besides, the Reich before the Commitee ruined it and Scandinavia were religious while also being socially progressive, something I think we discussed before. I can imagine a similar case to this South Germanic nation with a progressive social policy and a religious populace.

 

[GhostRider124]

I wonder what you think of this idea and if you would divide up Germania differently?

I probably would not have the Hanseatic League because I think that Scandinavia would want to turn the Baltic Sea (at least those not occupied by Lithuania) into a "Scandinavian Lake". I think I will keep Prussia/Germania as is and have them rule OTL's Prussia, keep the syndicalist Rhineland, and a super-religious southern Germany. Mabey have southern Germany like the Teutonic Knight's are in Eu4 and they could also have friendly relations with the religious right in Greece and Anatolia?

The conservatives shouldn't also have a united front. Since they're scattered across Europe, some might be hostile towards each other or have different political systems and ideologies.

Good point. Mabey instead of having one pan-European alliance of conservative provinces but instead have regional alliances. Such as a conservative alliance among the Hispanian successor states like Castile and Portugal, one for Germania and Carpathia, one for the Italian states, etc, etc, etc.

 

[zenphoenix]

Not to mention you seem to have landed both the Teutonics and Templars within Bavaria in CK2 as well, which I mentioned in my previous post. In fairness, social norms in any region aren’t static, and can even be dynamic given the right circumstances, and I imagine the mass cultural anxiety following World War 1 and the collapse of the Reich would be one of those circumstances. Besides, the Reich before the Commitee ruined it and Scandinavia were religious while also being socially progressive, something I think we discussed before. I can imagine a similar case to this South Germanic nation with a progressive social policy and a religious populace.

Agreed, though to be fair I chose a random place to land the holy orders and for them it happened to be Bavaria.

I probably would not have the Hanseatic League because I think that Scandinavia would want to turn the Baltic Sea (at least those not occupied by Lithuania) into a "Scandinavian Lake". I think I will keep Prussia/Germania as is and have them rule OTL's Prussia, keep the syndicalist Rhineland, and a super-religious southern Germany. Mabey have southern Germany like the Teutonic Knight's are in Eu4 and they could also have friendly relations with the religious right in Greece and Anatolia?

Also the capital of the Jomsvikings, Jomsberg, is located on the Pomeranian coast (Prussia), and Scandinavia would definitely want to take it for the Jomsvikings.

Good point. Mabey instead of having one pan-European alliance of conservative provinces but instead have regional alliances. Such as a conservative alliance among the Hispanian successor states like Castile and Portugal, one for Germania and Carpathia, one for the Italian states, etc, etc, etc.

Sounds good. Some of these regional alliances might team up against their common enemy, or they could be united under the Hohenzollerns again, or they might turn on each other as traitors.

 

[TheAnguishedOne]

Even as she wants to help, Gertrude goes about it in the worst way to establish trust. Even if this all works out, part of me wonders if Wilhelm Karl has enough pettiness in him to see her charged for blackmail.

The Princely Federation's the highlight of the second Tianxia update for me.

 

[zenphoenix]

Even as she wants to help, Gertrude goes about it in the worst way to establish trust. Even if this all works out, part of me wonders if Wilhelm Karl has enough pettiness in him to see her charged for blackmail.

He most likely still doesn't trust her, and on the off chance she actually does help topple Elias, he'll just have her arrested with everyone else.

 

[GhostRider124]

“Not my Kaiser!”

I was going to ask if people in TTL would feel like this toward Wilhelm like to politicians in OTL but the above comment answered my question.

Those were some nice words from Wilhelm in his New Years speech. It is kind of messed up how he has nice things to say at Sita’s funeral but nothing at his own family's funerals. And he had to ruin those kind words by threatening his brother.

“Damn you, Karl,” he said, accepting his fate.

Well frak there goes Georg. I take back every nice thing I said about Wilhelm. Now I’m really beginning to believe Wilhelm did have Prince Horst killed. If he is willing to kill one brother why wouldn't he kill the other?

I’m worried for Wilhelm's sister who I think is still in College. I think she is named Victoria?

This is getting ridiculous. First Kohl and now the debacle at Himmler's, how are the CB Party able to control the Reich in the 2030’s under Elias?

Speaking of whatever blackmail Elias has on Wilhelm has to be good. I think I already know what the thing Elias is blackmailing Wilhelm is but I am not sure.

Although I disagree with her politics but I kind of admire that Gertrude is sticking to her beliefs. Even if those beliefs will eventually turn the Reich into a theocracy like Gilead and her not being able to read or wright in contrast to other political leaders who might say the talking points of a group just to get them on their side and do something else while in office.

Lastly, since you are taking this arc in the direction of the Handmaid's Tale, what version of the story are you using? Are you using the two books “The Handmaid's Tale” and “The Testaments” or the TV Series?

According to the Handmaid's Tale Wikia under “Republic of Gilead (Novel)” it says that most of the characters in the Handmaid's Tale tapes are not around in the “Middle Gilead” period with “The Testaments” taking place 15 years after the first book in the “Middle Gilead” period. “The Testaments” also cover the “Late Gilead” period and how the regime fell.

However in “The Testaments” Wikipedia page it says “the setting of the television series is several years away from directly portraying events in this novel”.

 

[zenphoenix]

Well frak there goes Georg. I take back every nice thing I said about Wilhelm. Now I’m really beginning to believe Wilhelm did have Prince Horst killed. If he is willing to kill one brother why wouldn't he kill the other?

Horst is actually his cousin, but you do have a point.

I’m worried for Wilhelm's sister who I think is still in College. I think she is named Victoria?

Her name is Wilhelmina, and she is Wilhelm Karl's niece (Elisabeth Alexandra's daughter). She graduated college in 2004 but still has a reputation for being a "college gamer" due to her geekiness.

This is getting ridiculous. First Kohl and now the debacle at Himmler's, how are the CB Party able to control the Reich in the 2030’s under Elias?

Five words. BoTh SiDeS aRe ThE sAmE!

Speaking of whatever blackmail Elias has on Wilhelm has to be good. I think I already know what the thing Elias is blackmailing Wilhelm is but I am not sure.

Keep reading then.

Although I disagree with her politics but I kind of admire that Gertrude is sticking to her beliefs. Even if those beliefs will eventually turn the Reich into a theocracy like Gilead and her not being able to read or wright in contrast to other political leaders who might say the talking points of a group just to get them on their side and do something else while in office.

hmmmmmmm

Lastly, since you are taking this arc in the direction of the Handmaid's Tale, what version of the story are you using? Are you using the two books “The Handmaid's Tale” and “The Testaments” or the TV Series?

I'm using a combination of both the book and show for some scenes and character arcs. I took a few minor plot elements from The Testaments but won't fully adapt that since I can't do that with my current plans. Ultimately I'm not going to fully adapt either the book or the show 1:1, but rather have my own take. Like I don't have a character like June/Offred (I do not have the handmaid system since there is no global fertility crisis), Elias is very loosely based on Fred, the other committee members get more development than the actual Sons of Jacob leaders who don't show up in the first book and only rarely appear in the show, and Wilhelm Karl took the redemption arc content from Joseph Lawrence (whom I based Josiah Burkard on). There is no Aunt Lydia, but elements of her character appear in various people as she is more of an archetype.

According to the Handmaid's Tale Wikia under “Republic of Gilead (Novel)” it says that most of the characters in the Handmaid's Tale tapes are not around in the “Middle Gilead” period with “The Testaments” taking place 15 years after the first book in the “Middle Gilead” period. “The Testaments” also cover the “Late Gilead” period and how the regime fell.

There were very few characters in the first book already, and most of them were in no position to come back after the book ended, especially 15 years later with the second book. And I wanted to use my existing cast and some characters I'll be introducing soon, and their arcs go in a very different direction. So even if the books and show go in and end a certain way, I'm not necessarily going to use those endings.

 

[Fool Esquire]

He most likely still doesn't trust her, and on the off chance she actually does help topple Elias, he'll just have her arrested with everyone else.

She still ought to be on the hook for everything she cosigned before having a change of heart. A reduced sentence for helping overthrow Elias... if Wilhelm doesn't execute the lot.

 

[CaptainAlvious]

I'm using a combination of both the book and show for some scenes and character arcs. I took a few minor plot elements from The Testaments but won't fully adapt that since I can't do that with my current plans. Ultimately I'm not going to fully adapt either the book or the show 1:1, but rather have my own take. Like I don't have a character like June/Offred (I do not have the handmaid system since there is no global fertility crisis), Elias is very loosely based on Fred, the other committee members get more development than the actual Sons of Jacob leaders who don't show up in the first book and only rarely appear in the show, and Wilhelm Karl took the redemption arc content from Joseph Lawrence (whom I based Josiah Burkard on). There is no Aunt Lydia, but elements of her character appear in various people as she is more of an archetype.

Are there characters we know already that fall into this Aunt Lydia archetype, or will we be introduced to them later in the story? Will you also represent the other two POV characters from the Testaments?

Also, since Margeat Atwood used a variety of real world events as inspiration for Handmaid’s Tale, like the stripping away of women’s rights after the Iranian revolution and the the rise of American Christian conservatism during the Reagan administration, what real life events, besides the ones you mentioned for the 1105 Commission and a related propaganda video, did you use as Inspiration for this arc.