How will religion work in this game? In particular a country with a diverse religious population, I’ve always felt like religion wasn’t of much importance in vic2 you could go an entire game ignoring it.
- 3
Religion?
- Thread starter Duditsfireguy
- Start date
-
We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.
Now that is a great question. So far I've noticed a couple things. We will be able to interact with our nations church through the interest groups mechanic. We can also institute laws which seperate or unite church and state. Finally, heads of state seem to have a religion. I don't neccesarily know the full implications of all these things but that's everything I've noticed!
- 4
- 2
I do wonder how IGs will work with pluralistic nations (obviously I'm mostly thinking of the U.S. but this would also be a problem for a unified India for example). The Devout IG or a national church IG wouldn't make a lot of sense if there's only one of them. Hopefully we get a different IG for each major religious group (the U.S. should definitely have a high church/low church distinction IMO, and later on a catholic IG)
- 5
- 1
We've yet to see much other than religious schools. Just going to have to keep waiting...
There will be only one Devout IG per nation, I'm able to guarentee; it will be whatever your nation starts as.
Nothing has shown that different countries are able to have their own "unique" IGs (that is, having more/less IGs than other countries).
For other religions, they will feel oppressed since the state religion does not match theirs. This will be able to be mitigated by adopting freedom of conscience or total separation, but this would anger your Devout IG.
- 4
- 2
I hope that religion should be an important part of game. With mechanics, diplomatic influence, a religious map and option to convert pops.
- 3
I think I agree and it is something I am particularly disappointed at. We do know that IG can and will be very different from country to country, but not to the point of having new IG altogether, it seems.
Which is a shame for countries with different power bases like 2 different and very distinct religions. For an example I am a bit more familiar with, in Japan in the mid of the 19th century there was the Meiji Revolution that reinstated the emperor as the leader of the nation and reinforced his role as a religious authority. The new government put a lot of effort instituting Shinto as a state religion (some historians alright say the religion was more or less created at that point, being on based on the ancient faith) so you could simulate that as the devout IG being part of the government, right? Except before that it was the Buddhists who have more importance within the government with Buddhist temples having greater political influence. To make it more confusing the Buddhists were briefly persecuted by the new Shinto administration so you can just lump them into the same devout group, at least from the Meiji period onward (previously they were often practiced together, so it wouldn't be that weird.)
I guess a solution would be to have the devout IG completely transform depending on events and who is in power? But that seems like a poor solution.
Last edited:
- 2
- 1
It would be difficult to represent Germany, Ireland or the Ottoman Empire (for example) without depicting tension between different religious communities.
- 15
- 3
- 1
In Ireland and the Ottoman Empire at least the religion is so mixed in with nationalism that you can simulate the division by whatever system they have to simulate separatism (which I am surprised it is not part of the Political Movement system). It is when religions line don't also follow some other clear lines that it becomes more murky.
- 2
- 1
Which leaves religion pretty vestigial. It becomes a way of saying that Greeks are more unhappy than Albanians (or Kurds?) under Muslim rule because they’re Christians, but then the system gives you a small number of Sunni Greeks and Catholic Serbs who live in Croatia.
- 4
I do hope that it will be far more important than in vicky 2 which felt just tacked on.
Not necessarily in the case of the Ottoman Empire. Christian communities in the Levant didn’t see themselves as a separate national community. The religious tensions in the region had more to with popular perceptions among Muslims that:
- Christian communities were tools utilized by foreign powers to further their interests.
- Christian communities were receiving rights that undermined the idea of Muslim primacy, or even seemed to privilege Christians.
- 2
- 2
I really hope not, it's a huge wasted opportunity. Imagine playing East India Company and the Hindus and Muslims have 0 Clout whatsoever because they don't even have an Interest Group
You don't even need to hardcode new IGs for every country, you can just make it so that if X% (say, 10%) of your country's POPs are of a religion, that religion gets an Interest Group in your country.
- 7
This is interesting but you only talked about the perception of the dominant religion about the minority religion, and that is already accounted by the regular devout IG. Did Christians have their own unified religious goals to be represented by Interest Groups? Also, wouldn't the Levant be unincorporated territory (it is not even Ottoman at game start)? I feel most POP there wouldn't be represented by IG regardless, but we have heard nothing about how colonies and non incorporated states work.
To be clear, I am not dismissing your post, I know very little about the region at the time, so I am curious.
I wonder if the player will be able to affect it or if it's just something pops are and you have to deal with that.
CK and EU series for example you can convert provinces/whole countries to different religions if you want. I wonder if there will be that sort of control, or it will have to be done through different means such as disenfranchising subsections of your population in order to reduce pop growth in that section.
In Vicy2 IIRC, you could only really affect atheism as you slowly changed towards communism. (correct me if I'm wrong).
I wonder because, would it be possible to convert all of the US to shamanism for example? I suspect not.
CK and EU series for example you can convert provinces/whole countries to different religions if you want. I wonder if there will be that sort of control, or it will have to be done through different means such as disenfranchising subsections of your population in order to reduce pop growth in that section.
In Vicy2 IIRC, you could only really affect atheism as you slowly changed towards communism. (correct me if I'm wrong).
I wonder because, would it be possible to convert all of the US to shamanism for example? I suspect not.
Most important: very very slow religious conversion and cultural assimilation speed - it should be impossible to convert all India to Anglicanism as Britain or Poland to Orthodoxy as Russia.
Instead conversion and assimilation, promoting your religion and culture should through higher growth for pops u fulfill their demands while minorities without access to nice stuff migrating away. But the time of mass conversion and assimilation was definitely over in the 19th century!
Instead conversion and assimilation, promoting your religion and culture should through higher growth for pops u fulfill their demands while minorities without access to nice stuff migrating away. But the time of mass conversion and assimilation was definitely over in the 19th century!
- 7
- 1
Pops should convert, yes, just as long as it’s based on population factors and not an EU4-style click button to spend £100 and make 1,000 people into Catholics
- 2
- 1
the overwellming majority of africa, the taiping heavenly kingdom, depending on how yuo cut it the meji restoration, the conversion of kafiristan, and so on, look askance to that statement
- 3
also to add, to the ongoing discussion, as far as whe know religious conversion seperate from cultural assimilation exists, in as much as the religious schools institution gives quite hefty bonuses to religious conversion, I would also be suprissed if there wasn't an authortity costing "encourage religious conversion" action to encourage conversion on a state by state basis, this to me points to the best of both worlds in regards to religous conversion: that by default religious conversion will be a factor of assimilation and will for the most part be a marginal affair, but, should the player or a particularly zealous AI "personality" comit to religious uniformity, it can be done, with of course the associated, politcal and sociological costs
ok let it me more clear - no big conversions between the great monotheistic religions (christianity-islam) and inside them (e.g Catholics-Protestants etc.)
And outside the unrecognized pagan-africa there were no fundamental religious conversions in the 19th century - in Japan Buddhism and Shinto were before meiji rest. no big difference - syncretism. Taiping was an exception - Exceptions prove the rule.
- 3