Questions about Ajam

[Korsjan Rīkis]

So, I'm thinking about doing Ajam run next week. So to do it properly, I have a some questions. I know that it's basically a rebel tag that rebelled against the Timurid Empire, but why did they rebel, what was the end goal? Did they want to overthrow the Timurid ruler and replace him or carve out an empire of their own? I'm asking, because it's important to know the direction I should go with the campaign. Make an Ajam Empire (so basically a Sunni Persian Empire with some Timurid flavour on top) or go Ajam -> Timurids instead.
If I choose Ajam -> Timurids. Wouldn't Khorasan and other vassals have the same goal, too, to gain the Timurid throne?

So, it's basically what would happen with Ajam, if it succeeded and didn't get conquered by Qara Qoyunlu?

 

[PurpulaPhoenixum53]

My best guess would be Ajam would aiming to become a Persia centered Timurid Empire. The various Timurid princes revolted against Shah Rukh to claim the throne themselves, so the best guess would be a Persia centered Timurid Empire if they succeeded and didn't get conquered by Qara Qoyunlu.

 

[Republic of Mercury]

Sultan Muhammad was one of Shah Rukh male-line grandsons. Historically he was executed after being captured while trying to invade Khorosan. I don't see why he wouldn't have attempted to install himself as the next Timurid shah if he'd lived to have the opportunity.

The best example I can think of of a Timurling that did decide to look elsewhere would be Babur, who founded the Mughal empire instead of re-establishing the Timurid empire, and only after circumstances made it very that that wasn't going to work out did he look elsewhere. Sultan Muhammad was definitely in a much better position, and would've been much less likely to look elsewhere (even if not for the whole... dying... thing.)

 

[Blizzrd33]

So, I'm thinking about doing Ajam run next week. So to do it properly, I have a some questions. I know that it's basically a rebel tag that rebelled against the Timurid Empire, but why did they rebel, what was the end goal? Did they want to overthrow the Timurid ruler and replace him or carve out an empire of their own? I'm asking, because it's important to know the direction I should go with the campaign. Make an Ajam Empire (so basically a Sunni Persian Empire with some Timurid flavour on top) or go Ajam -> Timurids instead.
If I choose Ajam -> Timurids. Wouldn't Khorasan and other vassals have the same goal, too, to gain the Timurid throne?

So, it's basically what would happen with Ajam, if it succeeded and didn't get conquered by Qara Qoyunlu?

Only nations with a Timurid dynasty ruler can reform into the Timurids, but Ajam is not the only such nation in 1444.

Ajam (and many of the other Timurid subjects at 1444) has options to:

• Form Persia
• Form Timurids
• Form Mughals

The last option is usually regarded as the strongest if you want to expand a lot.

Ajam also has an option to reform into Yuan, but it requires a lot of work.

 

[RMS Oceanic]

Less historical but Ajam's my goto for forming Zoroastrian Persia.

 

[Korsjan Rīkis]

My best guess would be Ajam would aiming to become a Persia centered Timurid Empire. The various Timurid princes revolted against Shah Rukh to claim the throne themselves, so the best guess would be a Persia centered Timurid Empire if they succeeded and didn't get conquered by Qara Qoyunlu.

Sultan Muhammad was one of Shah Rukh male-line grandsons. Historically he was executed after being captured while trying to invade Khorosan. I don't see why he wouldn't have attempted to install himself as the next Timurid shah if he'd lived to have the opportunity.

The best example I can think of of a Timurling that did decide to look elsewhere would be Babur, who founded the Mughal empire instead of re-establishing the Timurid empire, and only after circumstances made it very that that wasn't going to work out did he look elsewhere. Sultan Muhammad was definitely in a much better position, and would've been much less likely to look elsewhere (even if not for the whole... dying... thing.)

Yeah, it makes sense that Ajam would want to take the Timurid throne.

Another, but related question, I always thought that with Timurids you're supposed to form the Mughals and move to India, but upon reading more of it, it doesn't really looks like the correct way to go. It's more like one of the Timurid ex-vassals with Timurid dynasty formed the Mughal Empire, instead of the Timurid Empire itself migrating. It seems like the Mughals are supposed to be formed by Fergana (it doesn't appear at the start date) and Afghanistan, while for the Timurid tag itself, it should be more about dealing with your vassals and restoring the empire to its past glory, is that correct?

Only nations with a Timurid dynasty ruler can reform into the Timurids, but Ajam is not the only such nation in 1444.

Ajam (and many of the other Timurid subjects at 1444) has options to:

• Form Persia
• Form Timurids
• Form Mughals

The last option is usually regarded as the strongest if you want to expand a lot.

Ajam also has an option to reform into Yuan, but it requires a lot of work.

I'm a tall player and RPing my campaigns, so that kind of play style isn't for me. I'll leave Persia for later, when they release an immersion pack about the Middle East, so we can get proper mission trees and other cool stuff.

 

[PurpulaPhoenixum53]

I always thought that with Timurids you're supposed to form the Mughals and move to India, but upon reading more of it, it doesn't really looks like the correct way to go. It's more like one of the Timurid ex-vassals with Timurid dynasty formed the Mughal Empire, instead of the Timurid Empire itself migrating. It seems like the Mughals are supposed to be formed by Fergana (it doesn't appear at the start date) and Afghanistan, while for the Timurid tag itself, it should be more about dealing with your vassals and restoring the empire to its past glory, is that correct?

Yes that is correct. In-game, Afghanistan would form the Mughals.

 

[YellowPress]

Only nations with a Timurid dynasty ruler can reform into the Timurids, but Ajam is not the only such nation in 1444.

Ajam (and many of the other Timurid subjects at 1444) has options to:

• Form Persia
• Form Timurids
• Form Mughals

The last option is usually regarded as the strongest if you want to expand a lot.

Ajam also has an option to reform into Yuan, but it requires a lot of work.

You can enthrone a Timurid in order to reform timurids

Yeah, it makes sense that Ajam would want to take the Timurid throne.

Another, but related question, I always thought that with Timurids you're supposed to form the Mughals and move to India, but upon reading more of it, it doesn't really looks like the correct way to go. It's more like one of the Timurid ex-vassals with Timurid dynasty formed the Mughal Empire, instead of the Timurid Empire itself migrating. It seems like the Mughals are supposed to be formed by Fergana (it doesn't appear at the start date) and Afghanistan, while for the Timurid tag itself, it should be more about dealing with your vassals and restoring the empire to its past glory, is that correct?

Because the rest of the empire was lost to uzbeks, qq or aq. Ferghana is just a sub division of a sub division of the empire, forming mughals as transoxina is good enough

I'm a tall player and RPing my campaigns, so that kind of play style isn't for me. I'll leave Persia for later, when they release an immersion pack about the Middle East, so we can get proper mission trees and other cool stuff.

Persia already gets alot in events just has to be shia

Yeah, the historical formation of the Mughals isn't really possible in EU4, since (in game terms) it would involve starting as Ferghana, having it be taken by rebels whilst trying to conquer Samarkand, then having Samarkand be conquered by Uzbek whilst you wanted to free Ferghana, becoming leader of Afghanistan via pretender rebels, attemping to expand westward, failing, and eventually saying "f*ck it" and going east instead.

Theres also declaring 4 wars in ten years just to get max war reps on dehli

I'm not sure a stablised empire the size of the Timurids would move its capital to Northern India and form the Mughals, but I don't think they'd ignore it either. The Empire's "past glory" could be argued to include Timur's (rather brutal) sacking of the Dehli Sultante. Note that, in 1444, the in-game Dehli tag was, in name at least, another Timurid subject. It's current ruler's grandfather came into power by explicitly claiming claiming to represent Timur, and his unce and predecessor was subservient to Shah Rukh (The granfather of the ruler of Ajam). So I think there's a strong argument to be made that, even if you don't intend to form the Mughals, a resurgent Timurid empire would absolutely reconquer/subjugate the wealth of Northern India if an opportunity presented itself.

Multan recevies a khilji (robe of honour which caliphs started using like crowns to enfeoff people) but im unaware of sayyid dehli receiving anything similar, I thought it was just a palace coup followed by gifts disguised as tribute to keep trade lanes open

 

[Blizzrd33]

You can enthrone a Timurid in order to reform timurids

How is that any different to what I posted? A Timurid dynasty ruler is required, as I already said. I was giving the options for Ajam, not all the options to form Timurids.

 

[YellowPress]

How is that any different to what I posted? A Timurid dynasty ruler is required, as I already said. I was giving the options for Ajam, not all the options to form Timurids.

Ajam (and many of the other Timurid subjects at 1444)
This ignores how uzbek can make horde timurids

 

[Blizzrd33]

Ajam (and many of the other Timurid subjects at 1444)
This ignores how uzbek can make horde timurids

Again, I was giving the options for Ajam, not all the options to form Timurids. Because that's what the thread is about. Sheesh, please read.