Origins dlc installed and restoration of union cb causing massive AE intended?

[Ort]

Hi, I'm playing my first run post-patch with the new dlc as Austria.

I declared on bohemia with the restoration of union CB which I gained by completing the "secure electors" mission.

However, I noticed that taking bohemia under the union causes a few dozens of nations to join coalition against me.

I recall that this was not the case pre-patch and restoration of union CB had fixed warscore of 60 and significantly lower AE.

Is this burst in AE intended or is there something I'm failing to understand?

Thanks in advance for any answers.

 

[Destaloss]

I hear you. But I think the dev team are currently on the right trajectory to get things back on track. Except for the apparent practice of testing changes by running auto simulations. That, if true, needs to be replaced with actual playtesting. Something the community clearly does better still to this day than the devs.

Who on earth thinks that looking at an AI map is "playtesting" even? That is ridiculous and it's obvious they didn't test half of their changes.

 

[adin85]

I have question it's CB from Missions only this AE.

 

[Twoflower]

Geez, people.
This is a very decent release, and the comparisons to Leviathan are ridiculously unfair. Yes, AE from PUs is too high now, but this is just a case of imperfect balancing. Could it have been prevented if the numbers had been announced before the release and people would have pointed the problem out? Yes, quite probably.
Is it forgivable to have one number (or more exactly, one calculation) not balanced well in a major update with so many balance changes and other moving parts? Most people seem to disagree, but I think so.
QA-wise, this is perhaps the best patch release in the history of EU4, and I say that as someone who has tried the .0 version of almost every release.

 

[Twoflower]

Who on earth thinks that looking at an AI map is "playtesting" even? That is ridiculous and it's obvious they didn't test half of their changes.

It seems to be a perfectly reasonable way to get a good idea about how the AI does in an entire playthrough and about balance between AI countries.

Obviously, it cannot replace actual playtesting in order to recognize problems while playing individual countries, but there is no good reason to assume that they didn't do that, too.

 

[Destaloss]

It seems to be a perfectly reasonable way to get a good idea about how the AI does in an entire playthrough and about balance between AI countries.

Obviously, it cannot replace actual playtesting in order to recognize problems while playing individual countries, but there is no good reason to assume that they didn't do that, too.

You are probably right, but after all massive bugs do massively kill the hype.
World coalitions because of a PU? Monuments disappearing? You could easily test those things before they make it into the patch.

 

[Varlen Maroth]

You are probably right, but after all massive bugs do massively kill the hype.
World coalitions because of a PU? Monuments disappearing? You could easily test those things before they make it into the patch.

There's also a lots of problems in the new achievements too. I was trying to do Fugger Bank and it's just hilarious. Every part of the achievement is broken, the only that is working is that you have to start as the right country.

Bugs might happens, I know that since I'm an IT Director. However, the problem is the quantity, the severity of some and just the flagrant lack of testing that is concerning. More concerning as a customer when I see the reply "WAD but we'll fix it because not popular" ?

 

[Kapi96]

So apparently PUs now give 0.8 AE per dev? How on Earth can that be working as intended? Conquering provinces gives 0.75, vassalisation gives 0.50. Both are better than PUs, so why do PUs give more AE?

Conquering is obviously better since owning land yourself is better than it being owned by a subject. Vassalisation can be annoying due to the relations cap and having to wait 10 years to start annexing, but it gives reduced AE so it's still worth doing.

PUs take 50 years to start annexing, 5 times as long as vassals and also affect your relations cap, yet give 60% more AE than vassalising? Why? Their only benefit is that they don't combine their relative power against you for liberty desire (although it comes with the drawbacks that negative relations could instantly end the PU, something impossible with vassals, and that pretender rebels could also instantly end it, so I'd argue the negatives outweight the positives there). They're simply not worth it.

 

[ferben]

Seems like we are getting a beta patch to play with during the weekend.

Update on the current status of 1.32

There are 3 issues being mentioned more than anything else: 1. PU AE is insanely high, effectively breaking mission trees for some nations. - This will be adjusted in the next patch! 2. Army Tradition is making dev cost scale up to insane levels...

forum.paradoxplaza.com

 

[Blizzrd33]

It seems to be a perfectly reasonable way to get a good idea about how the AI does in an entire playthrough and about balance between AI countries.

Obviously, it cannot replace actual playtesting in order to recognize problems while playing individual countries, but there is no good reason to assume that they didn't do that, too.

The Court and Country bug for example wouldn't have been hard to identify with some actual playtesting. That it wasn't identified before release actually does mean that it wasn't playtested from where I'm sitting.

Whatever level of playtesting is being done, is clearly not enough to push things to release yet, even if it perhaps is more than it was for one or more previous major updates.

 

[Twoflower]

The Court and Country bug for example wouldn't have been hard to identify with some actual playtesting. That it wasn't identified before release actually does mean that it wasn't playtested from where I'm sitting.

Whatever level of playtesting is being done, is clearly not enough to push things to release yet, even if it perhaps is more than it was for one or more previous major updates.

This may come as a shock to you, but there are players that do not intentionally provoke that disaster asap in order to minmax absolutism.
EDIT: I am not saying that this bug is not problematic, I am just questioning the notion that this is something anybody playing the game would have noticed. I am somebody and I would not have noticed this in most of my playthroughs

 

[Blizzrd33]

This may come as a shock to you, but there are players that do not intentionally provoke that disaster asap in order to minmax absolutism.

It might come as a shock to you, but devs who change the outcome of a disaster might want to actually playtest to trigger the disaster and see if it works as intended, regardless of whether some players wouldn't otherwise have typically triggered that disaster .

 

[Nuclear Elvis]

We should just accept that fact that Austria turned into the Dumpster Fire of EU4 for a week. What better way to intro the Africa DLC than to put down "the Man" in Europe?

 

[Blizzrd33]

We should just accept that fact that Austria turned into the Dumpster Fire of EU4 for a week. What better way to intro the Africa DLC than to put down "the Man" in Europe?

Bohemia too for that matter, it can force PUs on heaps of nations as part of its mission tree.

 

[Atomcreator]

Europa universalis. A constant state of waiting for patches.

 

[Wolfrex]

I think this is one of those situations where the 'fix' is actually worse than the bug. Imagine if you were a new player and your reward for doing the first mission is to be put in an impossibly difficult position. You'd immediately learn that missions aren't to be trusted and aren't worth the effort. This is a shame as the missions are an amazing gameplay feature.

View attachment 772500

Well...
played in 2020, laughed like crazy
now I know how to use this mission to good use. But then - no.

 

[Uniform764]

Is it forgivable to have one number (or more exactly, one calculation) not balanced well in a major update with so many balance changes and other moving parts? Most people seem to disagree, but I think so.

Depends on the calculation. For something which destroys the early-mid game for several of the European powers the game recommends as interesting, no it's not acceptable.

 

[Ninking]

Who on earth thinks that looking at an AI map is "playtesting" even? That is ridiculous and it's obvious they didn't test half of their changes.

Letting the game run in AI-only mode for a bunch of iterations can definitely show whether something is broken or not performing as intended. It needs to be combined with human playtesting too of course, but don't dismiss "looking at an AI map". I do this to test my mods and it works very well.

 

[Knut Skallagrim]

8 Years and johan still hasn't made up his mind on how much AE we get on actions that are here since day one of release. Lol. Seen this AE go back and forth so much during these years that i can safely tell you guys: there is no WAD AE. AE is everything and nothing at the same time. In my opinion a coalition after a single pu, given by a mission tree aswell doesn't make sense at all, but we have to wait now for PDX to toss a dice and decide that they changed their mind or not about AE. See you next patch

 

[Twoflower]

8 Years and johan still hasn't made up his mind on how much AE we get on actions that are here since day one of release. Lol. Seen this AE go back and forth so much during these years that i can safely tell you guys: there is no WAD AE. AE is everything and nothing at the same time. In my opinion a coalition after a single pu, given by a mission tree aswell doesn't make sense at all, but we have to wait now for PDX to toss a dice and decide that they changed their mind or not about AE. See you next patch

They already changed this in the 1.32.1 patch.

 

[Destaloss]

Letting the game run in AI-only mode for a bunch of iterations can definitely show whether something is broken or not performing as intended. It needs to be combined with human playtesting too of course, but don't dismiss "looking at an AI map". I do this to test my mods and it works very well.

I didn't doubt that. But bug-wise it looked like that was almost the only testing they did.