Nick's WW2 Multiplayer Realism Mod

[VTs]

@Nick3210
Hey Nick,

I found a distance error on the map i your mod.

Distance form Providence, RI to Harrisburg = 89 km

Distance from Providence to Boston (adjacent) is 514 km.

 

[Nick3210]

@Nick3210
Hey Nick,
Distance from Providence to Boston (adjacent) is 514 km.

Yes, of course, just the United States are not included in the list of combat zones that I have carefully checked and fixed. (all countries with fixed provinces listed in the first post)

In over 10 years of Hoi-2 MP, I have never seen a war on the territory of USA in Multiplayer

I totally checked and fixed the Map only of the main combat zones - from Britain to Ural/Iran, from Narvik to Sudan.
Japan/Korea, the East Coast of the USA/Alaska and Pacific Ocean.

All other zones of Map are vanilla and therefore they may be (and are) totally incorrect, yes.

Checking and fixing provinces according to real geography is a really big and time-consuming job, so I was able to make only the most important battle theaters.

 

[Pasha]

@Nick3210
Hey Nick,

I found a distance error on the map i your mod.

Distance form Providence, RI to Harrisburg = 89 km
View attachment 827774

Distance from Providence to Boston (adjacent) is 514 km.

View attachment 827777

A a former Rhode Islander, I can honestly say that no Rhode Islander will ever visit Boston if the distance is that far. Rhode Islanders rarely drive more than 20 minutes out of their way

 

[VTs]

A a former Rhode Islander, I can honestly say that no Rhode Islander will ever visit Boston if the distance is that far. Rhode Islanders rarely drive more than 20 minutes out of their way

Me too. Born and raised in Warwick. Boston is a long way, but not that long

 

[Pasha]

Me too. Born and raised in Warwick. Boston is a long way, but not that long

Wow, grew up and lived in Warwick until 1996. Went to Vets when it was still a HS.

 

[VTs]

Hendricken. I miss chowder and wieners. Strange world this DH HOI fandom

 

[rwglaub]

Is there a way to remove the economics so I'm not always running out of resources?

 

[Pasha]

Hendricken. I miss chowder and wieners. Strange world this DH HOI fandom

Yep, definitely miss the food. I'm down in GA now. There's another guy around here from RI. Big Rhody Joe. I think he still lives in RI.

 

[VTs]

Is there a way yo remove the economics so I'm not always running out of resources?

Running out while playing as ..? It is a "Realism" mod to be honest.

 

[Nick3210]

Is there a way yo remove the economics so I'm not always running out of resources?

Playing as Britain solves all resource problems

 

[InfArmMot]

Playing it for the first time now, Single Player. Its good.

Idea; have you thought about implementing a mobilization decision? Accustomed, as I am, playing edge Of Darkness, I simply thought the decision would appear, when war broke out, but no. So I lost my parachute division, because it was not reinforced. Poland attacked it with five divisions, it was wiped of the map.

Also, I like the slow reinforcement rate. And especially the new generals and their abilities. LOVE THAT PART.

But the training period for divisions, I really think it should be longer. In Edge of Darkness they last like 9-10 months.

Anyone else having had problems unzipping it; I used the free BF1FreeArchive. Worked the first time.

And the oil porblem is real in this MOD. Thanks.

Oh, while I remember it; since this is my first impression; the fact that you cannot use strategic redeployment in Denmark, is a great detail.

 

[Nick3210]

Idea; have you thought about implementing a mobilization decision? Accustomed, as I am, playing edge Of Darkness, I simply thought the decision would appear, when war broke out, but no. So I lost my parachute division, because it was not reinforced. Poland attacked it with five divisions, it was wiped of the map.

Conversely!
I totally removed vanilla DH Full mobilization system because it is totally unrealistic.
In reality you can't mobilize your entire army in one day with one click of your fingers, replenishing it from 30% to 100%, for example.
Mobilization (replenishment of peacetime divisions) takes time, months.
And this is already perfectly implemented in the Hoi2 mechanics itself - player needs to "replenish" his divisions by spending IC and time for this.
In short, the DH-Full event system with instant replenishment of HP divisions is the Evil that should be cut out of the game, which I did. In my Mod, "mobilization replenishment" is realistic, according to classic mechanics of Hoi2.

But the training period for divisions, I really think it should be longer. In Edge of Darkness they last like 9-10 months.

Agree, if I were creating a game from scratch, I would probably also increases the time for creating divisions.
But, since my MP community has been playing Hoi2/DH Light Multiplayer for 10 years, and got used to the short standard vanilla Hoi2/DH Light time of creating divisions, the "power of inertia" forced me to keep these familiar timings.
For multiplayer, the rapid creation of divisions increases the playability of MP, because a short time gives players a chance to correct his mistakes during the war.
If divisions are built for 6-9 months, then there will be no time to correct mistakes during the war.

Oh, while I remember it; since this is my first impression; the fact that you cannot use strategic redeployment in Denmark, is a great detail.

I didn't really understand why strategic redeployment in Denmark may be needed, what did you mean.
By the way, a "cheat connection" has been created between Germany and Sweden, which simulates land supply (without sea convoys) of German troops through "not-in-war-puppet" Denmark, in the case of German invasion in Sweden.
Just usually in multiplayer, Germany annexes Sweden.

And especially the new generals and their abilities. LOVE THAT PART.

Yeah, I am also very delighted myself by new, correct, realistic generals.
However, I have not yet the strength to analyze deeply and made American and Japanese generals. But European generals are made with the highest total quality.

 

[Eginhard 38]

I'm afraid I have to disagree with your statement about the supposedly unrealistic nature of the mobilization.

In 1914, most of the French reservists joined their units in two days, and these units were deployed on the border within a little more than two weeks. It was the same with most European countries, except for Russia - and yet, only because of its sheer size and comparatively low railway density.

Mobilization is quick and efficient as long as it is backed by a thoroughly designed mobilization plan AND a proper pool of trained reservists.

What could be considered unrealistic in DH is the ability to move your units long before enacting mobilization, while IRL they remained permanently at their peacetime location and were deployed to the border only when mobilization was put in motion (after all, that's why it's called mobilization in the first place: reinforcing units with trained reservists is easy, the hardest part is about moving entire armies).

To simulate this properly, units should rather be locked in place during peacetime. But I guess most players would call it heresy!

 

[InfArmMot]

Conversely!
I totally removed vanilla DH Full mobilization system because it is totally unrealistic.
In reality you can't mobilize your entire army in one day with one click of your fingers, replenishing it from 30% to 100%, for example.
Mobilization (replenishment of peacetime divisions) takes time, months.
And this is already perfectly implemented in the Hoi2 mechanics itself - player needs to "replenish" his divisions by spending IC and time for this.
In short, the DH-Full event system with instant replenishment of HP divisions is the Evil that should be cut out of the game, which I did. In my Mod, "mobilization replenishment" is realistic, according to classic mechanics of Hoi2.



Agree, if I were creating a game from scratch, I would probably also increases the time for creating divisions.
But, since my MP community has been playing Hoi2/DH Light Multiplayer for 10 years, and got used to the short standard vanilla Hoi2/DH Light time of creating divisions, the "power of inertia" forced me to keep these familiar timings.
For multiplayer, the rapid creation of divisions increases the playability of MP, because a short time gives players a chance to correct his mistakes during the war.
If divisions are built for 6-9 months, then there will be no time to correct mistakes during the war.



I didn't really understand why strategic redeployment in Denmark may be needed, what did you mean.
By the way, a "cheat connection" has been created between Germany and Sweden, which simulates land supply (without sea convoys) of German troops through "not-in-war-puppet" Denmark, in the case of German invasion in Sweden.
Just usually in multiplayer, Germany annexes Sweden.




Yeah, I am also very delighted myself by new, correct, realistic generals.
However, I have not yet the strength to analyze deeply and made American and Japanese generals. But European generals are made with the highest total quality.

Mobilization
Sorry, didn't think about that. And I agree.

I took a short look at the concept of mobilization. Apperently, the time it takes depend on a variaty of factors, making the time-table different for each nation.

In World War One all the great nations of Europe had a two week timetable for general mobilization, with the exception of Russia (six weeks) and Great Britain (6 months). Russia required longer because of both greater distances and a much "thinner" rail network. Great Britain required 6 months because much of its manpower would be from overseas (India, South Africa, Australia, New Zealand and Canada). These Dominion armies would initially mobilize locally, then be transported first to Great Britain and then to France. Barbara Tuchman's Guns of August is a great resource for this period.

Note that the ability to mobilize an armed force eight times as large as one's standing army in just two weeks requires decades of preparation and a specified permanent infrastructure:

• Mandatory military service of 2 years from 18-20;
• Followed by 8 years of mandatory Reserve service for 4 weeks / year;
• Followed by another 10 years of mandatory Landwehr service of 2 weeks / year.
• A regular standing army ~12% as big as the final desired army
• A country no bigger than 1914 Germany in size, with a very dense rail network and extremely detailed mobilization plans.
• A Professional General Staff
• Note also that your mobilized units can only pop-up at rail terminuses with sufficient rail capacity to handle the arriving men and equipment, and sufficient open land for their bivouac. The available land around Aachen in 1914 was only 1/3 that required for the destined troops, requiring an invasion of neighbouring Belgium on Day 5 rather than Day 15. This eventuality was unknown to everyone except German mobilization planners.

LINK:
How much time would it take to mobilize an army during WW2?

How much time would it take to mobilize an army during WW2?

How long would it take to mobilize the armed forces of a Western country during the 20th century? Specifically, during and around WW2. I'm also looking for the number of troops as-well.

history.stackexchange.com

Mobilisation in the West

Mobilisation in the West » Dunkirk 1940 - The Before, The Reality, The Aftermath

dunkirk1940.org

Unit training time
Makes sense that you need the short training time in MP. Would you consider a start game decision for SingePlayer, where the player can go for 3-6-9-12 months training? Perhaps reflecting different types of divisional qualities? 3 as the lowest quality tier and 12 as the maximum?

The Denmark thing
Sorry for being implicit. I was simply positively surprised to see that I couldn't use Strategic Redeployment from the occupied Denmark. So I had to move my German units to Germany, in order for it to work. Nice detail.

Japan
I have now tried to play as Japan. I like it even more than Germany. Awesome MOD Nick. Thank You! Man, if I had the time I would join the MP games every week.

Screen from my second game/OOB against AI China.

Idea: if possible, will you consider to implement the flooding of the yellow river?

1938 Yellow River flood - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Nick3210]

In 1914, most of the French reservists joined their units in two days, and these units were deployed on the border within a little more than two weeks. It was the same with most European countries, except for Russia - and yet, only because of its sheer size and comparatively low railway density.

I agree, during WW2 France also needed about 2-3 weeks for mobilization (preparation of combat-ready divisions).
Thus, how you do write yourself, it cannot happen magically in one day, as it is implemented by the system of mobilization events in vanilla DH-Full basis.
To call up recruits in two days.... and then create combat-ready unit from them and also to add heavy weaponery to division is not the same thing - it take weeks even for France.
Therefore, I would say that you rather agree with me than disagree

For interest, I have right now tested reinforcement rate for the free-market countries in my Mod - about +50%HP of the division is reinforced in 20 days in wartime.
That is, for peacetime division with 30% HP in 3 weeks it will be 80% HP - quite realistic. Much more realistic than instant reinforcement up to 80%-100% in one day.
For the USSR (centerplan) it takes more time, which is also right.
Compared to vanilla settings, I reduced division reinforcement time by 2 times and increased the reinforcement cost by 2 times. Therefore, the speed of reinforcement of divisions is quite correct and playable.

 

[Nick3210]

Unit training time
Makes sense that you need the short training time in MP. Would you consider a start game decision for SingePlayer, where the player can go for 3-6-9-12 months training? Perhaps reflecting different types of divisional qualities? 3 as the lowest quality tier and 12 as the maximum?

By the way, this is implemented by some (small) extent.
At the last two levels of the "Army slider", division construction time increases by 5% and these divisions gain +20% "experience".

I guess now I'm not ready to begin work for global re-balance of my Mod. But if I ever want to continue my modding, then yes, I will probably double the time of construction of divisions.

Idea: if possible, will you consider to implement the flooding of the yellow river?

I am sure that this event is already in the vanilla game.
Moreover, I fixed it for better realism, now these flooded provinces lose not only IC but also MP.
Probably if you compare the map of these provinces before the war and after, there should be a difference in the number of IC and MP in these several provinces.

P.S. Hope you have noticed the peculiarity of the starting unical Japanese imba-infantry with 164% HP?

 

[InfArmMot]

By the way, this is implemented by some (small) extent.
At the last two levels of the "Army slider", division construction time increases by 5% and these divisions gain +20% "experience".

I guess now I'm not ready to begin work for global re-balance of my Mod. But if I ever want to continue my modding, then yes, I will probably double the time of construction of divisions.



I am sure that this event is already in the vanilla game.
Moreover, I fixed it for better realism, now these flooded provinces lose not only IC but also MP.
Probably if you compare the map of these provinces before the war and after, there should be a difference in the number of IC and MP in these several provinces.

P.S. Hope you have noticed the peculiarity of the starting unical Japanese imba-infantry with 164% HP?

And you call it Combat Training; a nice detail.

You mean the square divisions with 24600 men, then yes. I love them. Im gonna add some artillery to them later on.

I also like the very little amount of metal you start out with as Japan.

Generally speaking, so far it is a pleasant surprise to play Japan with your mod. Also the different player choices in relation to three types of cruisers, carriers and so forth. It adds to the replay value. Seems there is a lot to learn. Like it.

 

[Eginhard 38]

I agree, during WW2 France also needed about 2-3 weeks for mobilization (preparation of combat-ready divisions).
Thus, how you do write yourself, it cannot happen magically in one day, as it is implemented by the system of mobilization events in vanilla DH-Full basis.
To call up recruits in two days.... and then create combat-ready unit from them and also to add heavy weaponery to division is not the same thing - it take weeks even for France.
Therefore, I would say that you rather agree with me than disagree

For interest, I have right now tested reinforcement rate for the free-market countries in my Mod - about +50%HP of the division is reinforced in 20 days in wartime.
That is, for peacetime division with 30% HP in 3 weeks it will be 80% HP - quite realistic. Much more realistic than instant reinforcement up to 80%-100% in one day.
For the USSR (centerplan) it takes more time, which is also right.
Compared to vanilla settings, I reduced division reinforcement time by 2 times and increased the reinforcement cost by 2 times. Therefore, the speed of reinforcement of divisions is quite correct and playable.

No, I do not agree with you. At all.

Of course the unit is not combat ready in two days, it must arrive in the combat zone first. The big deal is moving, not reinforcing, them.

Filling the existing cadre of a reserve division is a different matter than replacing casualties with raw recruits.

Also, IRL mobilized reservists are given existing equipment from stores, while reinforcing them the «normal» way make players pay for it.

DH Vanilla mobilization system might not be perfect, but it's certainly more realistic than this.

 

[Nick3210]

No, I do not agree with you. At all.

Of course the unit is not combat ready in two days, it must arrive in the combat zone first. The big deal is moving, not reinforcing, them.

Filling the existing cadre of a reserve division is a different matter than replacing casualties with raw recruits.

Also, IRL mobilized reservists are given existing equipment from stores, while reinforcing them the «normal» way make players pay for it.

DH Vanilla mobilization system might not be perfect, but it's certainly more realistic than this.

Even if piece-time division is near border/front-line, it won't magically be combat ready in 2 days.
We are not talking about the transfer of division to the front line, but about the "combat coordination"/trainings and delivery of all necessary material parts to piece-time division.

For example, specifically in France-1939, there was a delay in the delivery of artillery to the mobilized divisions.

Mobilization in 2 days is unrealistic fantasy.

 

[Eginhard 38]

You seem unconcerned with actual facts here, so I won't press my point as it would be useless. I won't check if instant reinforcement reduces unit org or not, neither will I argue the artillery thing is a transportation issue, nor explain that units near to the border usually had a higher peacetime establishment.