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Frostschaden

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Judaism - The Diaspora and the Exilarchs


Version 2 - compatible with patch 2.0.1.0 beta

  • Karaite Judaism and Samaritanism have their own religious heads: the Karaite Exilarch and the Samaritan High Priest. Samaritanism also uses a different title for God. The first two have a generic heresy (Messianism and Judaeo-Christianity respectively). The High Priest, both Jewish and Samaritan, has custom clothing.
  • The Exilarchs are descendants of King David, and vassals of either the Abasids or the Seljuk Turks. They sadly suffer from a severe case of celibacy because of the game's mechanics.
  • All high priests from 1 AD up to the destruction of temple have a history file. For reasons of convenience, Sadducee high priests belong to the Karaite religion.
  • Some Jewish courtiers are Kohen, they belong to a distinct priestly dynasty. The coat of arms of the dynasty is based on the banner attributed to the tribe of Levi in the Midrash. In later updates they might gain claims on the Temple.

Gallery:
Outdated
A restored Kohen Gadol, and the full history of the high priests from 1 AD to 70 AD, the destruction of the Temple.
The Karaite exilarch residing in Baghdad, he always exists.
Compatibility:
This should be easily made compatible with many mods, the changes are clear and straightforward. It's just a matter of comparing the overwritten files, changes are often limited to a specific section.
Credits:
Thure (Jewish cultures)
Duinnin (Jewish cultures)
cybrxkhan (VIET)

If you credit this mod (preferably with a link back to this thread), you are allowed to integrate this into your mods. I even encourage it!
Download version 2
Download version 1fb (Old, patch 1.11)
Download version 1c (Old, 1.09x)


Please keep this in mind:
Trolling posts, discriminatory posts of any kind, meant in jest or otherwise, will not be tolerated.
 
Last edited:

cybrxkhan

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Nice to see some more stuff on the Jewish world.

I also have some flavor elements for the Jews in my mod-in-development that you might be interested in, namely a few flavor events and Romaniote Jews in Greece and Bulgaria. I'm also planning to expand the way Ashkenazi Jews work in later versions of the mod, so I was wondering, do you have any plans for expanding on how the Christians interact with the Jews in Europe?
 

Frostschaden

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Nice to see some more stuff on the Jewish world.

I also have some flavor elements for the Jews in my mod-in-development that you might be interested in, namely a few flavor events and Romaniote Jews in Greece and Bulgaria. I'm also planning to expand the way Ashkenazi Jews work in later versions of the mod, so I was wondering, do you have any plans for expanding on how the Christians interact with the Jews in Europe?
I barely have any coding experience, so I don't have any specific plans yet. If you're willing to share those events, it'd be wonderful. I'm wondering how I'd do the persecution of Jews in my mod.

I was thinking of adding Romaniote jews, but I don't think I have found a good namelist. England and France also need some specific Jews.
 

cybrxkhan

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I barely have any coding experience, so I don't have any specific plans yet. If you're willing to share those events, it'd be wonderful. I'm wondering how I'd do the persecution of Jews in my mod.

I was thinking of adding Romaniote jews, but I don't think I have found a good namelist. England and France also need some specific Jews.
Sure, I'll be happy to share the events. When I post my thread for my mod up (it's pretty much done so it'll be up tonight or tomorrow), you can take the events from my events folder and call it a day (credit appreciated, of course ;) ). So far I only have a few events, though I intend to expand it - so far I just have some mundane stuff, nothing really interesting, and nothing as hectic as persecution (I'm also trying to figure a way to model persecution of the Jews, though in my case I'm trying to figure out a way that is minimalist and doesn't effect the vanilla mechanics). Also, I have dynasty lists for the various Jewish groups, so you might be interested in that too.

As for the Romaniotes, have you tried looking at my name list here? It's not the best name list, as I've also taken a few Sephardic and generic Jewish names, but I think it is good enough for now.
 

Frostschaden

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Sure, I'll be happy to share the events. When I post my thread for my mod up (it's pretty much done so it'll be up tonight or tomorrow), you can take the events from my events folder and call it a day (credit appreciated, of course ;) ). So far I only have a few events, though I intend to expand it - so far I just have some mundane stuff, nothing really interesting, and nothing as hectic as persecution (I'm also trying to figure a way to model persecution of the Jews, though in my case I'm trying to figure out a way that is minimalist and doesn't effect the vanilla mechanics). Also, I have dynasty lists for the various Jewish groups, so you might be interested in that too.
The persecutions also have the ethical component, it would probably be wise to explicitly condemn it in the descriptions. I guess a generic decision that grants an 'antisemite' trait would be okay, and some hardcoded persecutions during crusades.

As for the Romaniotes, have you tried looking at my name list here? It's not the best name list, as I've also taken a few Sephardic and generic Jewish names, but I think it is good enough for now.
Ah, yes, that can be interesting. But, since the Romaniotes spoke a variant of Greek, perhaps it could be interesting to use the Greek variants of the Hebrew biblical names in some cases?
 

cybrxkhan

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The persecutions also have the ethical component, it would probably be wise to explicitly condemn it in the descriptions. I guess a generic decision that grants an 'antisemite' trait would be okay, and some hardcoded persecutions during crusades.
For my mod since I haven't really figured a persecution or tolerance/intolerance mechanic, I decided to make my events generically mundane - once I figure out a way to put in persecution or tolerance/intolerance (I'll probably go for the latter, possibly as some slider), then I can have events for those.

Although a few of the flavor events I have do have choices for zealous characters to show they dislike the Jews.

Ah, yes, that can be interesting. But, since the Romaniotes spoke a variant of Greek, perhaps it could be interesting to use the Greek variants of the Hebrew biblical names in some cases?
Ah, yes. That's what I was trying to do with some of the Romaniote names, but it was a name list I quickly whipped up in order to get my mod working. I'll probably return to it at a later time.
 

Frostschaden

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Although a few of the flavor events I have do have choices for zealous characters to show they dislike the Jews.
I've noticed, it is a nice touch. I've edited your events to deliver a few levites, and expanded them to also spawn Ashkenazim and Falashim in Ethiopia, credited of course. (I'm not going to mess with Ethiopia and add Semien at the moment).

Those'll be featured in version 1b.

Ah, yes. That's what I was trying to do with some of the Romaniote names, but it was a name list I quickly whipped up in order to get my mod working. I'll probably return to it at a later time.
This is a quick edit:
Code:
	romaniote = {
		graphical_culture = byzantinegfx
      
		color = { 0.35 0.45 0.35 } 

		male_names = {
		Abraam_Abraham Adam_Adam Aaron_Aaron Alexandros_Alexander Alexios_Alexis Amnon Amon Andzelos_Angelos Ariel_Ariel Askinazi Avraam_Abraham Barouch_Baruch Bartholomaios_Bartolomeus Bechoraki Beniamin_Benjamin Daniel_Daniel Dauid_David Davijon Eli'ezer_Eliezer Eliezer_Eliezer Elias_Elijah Esdras Gabriel_Gabriel Georgios_George Iacob_Jacob Iakobos_Jacob Ilias Ioannes_John Iosef_Joseph Isaak_Isaac Isaakios_Isaac Ismael_Ishmael Israel_Israel Matsel Meir Michael_Michael Moisis_Moses Mouses_Moses Molhos Mordechai Mordos Moskos Natanel Nissim Noe_Noah Abdiou_Obadia Petros_Peter Rouben_Reuben Raphael Sabbatai Samouel_Samuel Sampson_Samson Saoul_Saul Shalom Simon_Simon Salomon_Solomon Symeon_Simon Tzaddik Yohanan_John Zacharias_Zacharias
		}
		female_names = {
		Ada_Ada Alexandra Amalia Anna_Anna Dana_Dana Deborra_Deborah Dina_Dinah Dorothea_Dorothy Eftihia Eirene_Irene Gracia_Grace Hanna_Hannah Ioanna_Joan Maria_Maria Marika_Mary Martha_Martha Mina_Mina Miriam_Maria Naomi Perna Rachel_Rachel Rae Routh_Ruth Sarra_Sarah Simone_Simonis Sophia_Sophia Stemma Sterina_Esther Susanna_Susana Tamar_Tamar Velleli_Bella Ioudith_Judith Ioanna_Joan Zoe
		}
		male_patronym = "ben "
		female_patronym = "bat "
		prefix = no

		modifier = default_culture_modifier
	}
 

Frostschaden

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The next version will feature a history of the Karaite exilarchs, some of whom live during the game's timespan. I've added them in, but I'm not sure what their dynasty should be. Now only the Samaritan High Priest will exist 'forever', as it still exists nowadays.

Some of the Jewish high priests will probably have a "wikipedia" link to their Jewish Encyclopedia articles, I've added them in and will test them later.

I'll release version 1b when I have polished and expanded everything. Suggestions are always welcome.
 

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How exactly do you restore the Kohen Gadol? Just being a Jewish king of Jerusalem does nothing.
 

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I'm not at home right now,but I'm quite sure one needs to own the synagogue of Jerusalem. I'd hoped the AI would try to recreate it, but someone with modding experience should check it. Being a levite might be a condition as well.
 

Frostschaden

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I've finally updated this, now that my exams are finished and I've had the time to ask help. Many thanks to Jordarkelf! The Karaite exilarchy isn't functioning properly yet, but everything is playable now.

I'm currently researching the Karaite exilarchy some more, and I've also bought a book on Jewish 'fairy tales', which could be useful for flavour events.
 

bydlo2

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Is there an option to burn your jewish courtiers on stakes or call Spanish inquisition?
 

Mr. Capiatlist

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Is there an option to burn your jewish courtiers on stakes or call Spanish inquisition?
Probably not, as it would likely violate the user agreement and be in very, very poor taste.
 

Frostschaden

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Is there an option to burn your jewish courtiers on stakes or call Spanish inquisition?
No.

The flavour events from VIET have some antisemitic options (you can see those in his topic), but that's it. If I do include persecution of the Jews in the future, I will not make the events so explicit. I will also clearly show them as detestable, and per Sicut Judaeis, such actions should give the Pope good reason to excommunicate you.
 

richvh

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In any case, the Spanish Inquisition started after the time period of this game, and besides, the comfy chair hadn't been invented yet.
 

Frostschaden

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The Karaites won't be a heresy anymore in the next release. That was a bas choice based on my own ignorance. I might adapt the "mend the great schism" mechanics to portray a more accurate image of them and their relation to what now is mainstream Judaism, especially with the new start date. The exilarchs will also gain the ability to excommunicate, as per the Muslim sources.

Hmm, now I would need some actual Jewish heresies though. I think I'll go with generic messianism if I don't find good historical heresies.
 

jordarkelf

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The Karaites won't be a heresy anymore in the next release. That was a bas choice based on my own ignorance. I might adapt the "mend the great schism" mechanics to portray a more accurate image of them and their relation to what now is mainstream Judaism, especially with the new start date.

Hmm, now I would need some actual Jewish heresies though. I think I'll go with generic messianism if I don't find good historical heresies.
I use the following jewish setup:
Code:
jewish_group = {
	has_coa_on_barony_only = yes
	graphical_culture = muslimgfx
	playable = yes	
	pacifist = yes # Will make Hordes lose their super aggressiveness
	
	jewish = {
		graphical_culture = muslimgfx
		icon = N
		color = { 0.3 0.3 0.3 }
		crusade_name = "HOLY_WAR"
		scripture_name = THE_TORAH
		god_names = {
			GOD_GOD GOD_HASHEM GOD_ADONAI
		}

		priests_can_marry = yes
		can_grant_divorce = yes
	}
	ebionite = {
		graphical_culture = muslimgfx
		parent = jewish
		icon = N+1
		color = { 0.9 0.8 0.1 }
	}
	
	karaite = {
		graphical_culture = muslimgfx
		icon = N+2
		color = { 0.3 0.35 0.35 }
		
		crusade_name = "HOLY_WAR"
		scripture_name = THE_TORAH
		god_names = {
			GOD_GOD GOD_HASHEM GOD_ADONAI
		}

		priests_can_marry = yes
		can_grant_divorce = yes
	}
	krymchak = {
		graphical_culture = muslimgfx
		parent = karaite
		icon = N+3
		color = { 0.9 0.8 0.1 }
	}
}
"jewish" has a star of David, Karaite has a torah as its symbol. Heresies are red versions of the same.
View attachment 72693 View attachment 72694

So basically Jewish has a "Ebionite" heresy, Karaite has a "Krymchak" heresy. Ebionites were attested by muslim scholars until the late 12th Century, Krymchaks are still around today (Turkic variant of Karaism apparently quite different from that practiced by the rest).

Feel free to send me a PM if you're interested in a copy of my religion strip etc..
 
Last edited:

Frostschaden

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So basically Jewish has a "Ebionite" heresy, Karaite has a "Krymchak" heresy. Ebionites were attested by muslim scholars until the late 12th Century, Krymchaks are still around today (Turkic variant of Karaism apparently quite different from that practiced by the rest).
Do you remember the Muslim sources? That is certainly interesting. I had thought them extinct.
Concerning the Krymchaks, I'm not sure if their differences warrant being a 'heresy', there's a lot of different flavour to Jews in general, and I've represented them all culturally so far. I'll consider them when the new DLC comes out, to add some more flavour to the Khazars. Or for gameplay reasons perhaps.

Feel free to send me a PM if you're interested in a copy of my religion strip etc..
I've sent you a PM. :)
 

jordarkelf

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Al-Shahrastani, in his "Book of Sects and Creeds", wrote about Jews that accepted Christ as the Messiah living around Mecca and the Hejaz area in general, so it's not much of a stretch to consider these to be remnants of the historical Ebionites that lived in that area prior to Islam.
About 50 years earlier the Iberian rabbi Benjamin of Tudela also encountered Ebionites in north-western Arabia.