Jangladesh 1.17 on very hard mode one tag AAR no exploits

[Tom D.]

I totally forgot about the ability to migrate (no DLC, I know ), and going south sounds like a good plan. Those things about vassalising and migrating is easy to investigate: just start a game and see what happens, just to find out.

 

[Frogbait]

If not for the fact on V. Hard, your troops could go toe to toe with the French and win with that set up

I know what they said in the DD is no longer valid - they changed stuff since then. I could also be wrong and remembering wrong on how institutions spread but I'm fairly certain Luba was getting Renaissance ticks even though he couldn't get Feudalism ticks due to being tribal.

You know you could always just opt out of playing the PU game for a christian campaign if you insist on going Christian. Coptic religion does look pretty interesting next patch though. I personally want to try Fetishist out at somepoint after next patch since Hindu is already my favorite religion in the game and Fetishist is going down a similar path. If they manage to get events like Hindus for ruler stats, oh baby.

 

[trojan1234]

watching DDRJAKE playing on very hard..

Makes me wonder if Common Sense WAS enabled for this Jangladesh campaign. Seems development is indeed lowish compared to other very hard runs.

I should check it really, as I realised (wealth of nations) edit: El Dorado was also off for this campaign...

edit: it WAS on, as I remember using paid features from Common Sense in this camapign, like returning core for 10 prestige loss.

@trojan1234 So..... I got no clue why AI didn't develop a lot in my campaign here.

It is really strange, maybe unreported bug we've yet noticed
Thanks for reply, wish best for your next 1.19 campaign!

 

[Frogbait]

So what came out for natives from the feature stream - once they reform their religion they'll start being able to go feudal. Still leaves a lot up in the air.

 

[atwix]

So what came out for natives from the feature stream - once they reform their religion they'll start being able to go feudal. Still leaves a lot up in the air.

does the old mechanic for pagans native americans getting tech from western colonizers still work? AKA westernizing/reforming government or however its called?

Its been WAY too long.

 

[Tom D.]

does the old mechanic for pagans native americans getting tech from western colonizers still work? AKA westernizing/reforming government or however its called?

Its been WAY too long.

If I followed the Dev MP session well, I believe westernising as we know it will be removed. Westernising with RoM and beyond will now mean keeping up with the institutions and how they spread. If you border a Western nation it will spread its embraced institutions to its neighbours, so in that regard you're right.

I think we'll only be sure about how this works is when RoM comes out, when everybody is able to explore this new feature.

 

[Frogbait]

does the old mechanic for pagans native americans getting tech from western colonizers still work? AKA westernizing/reforming government or however its called?

Its been WAY too long.

No idea. The question was thrown from chat - how does the removal of westernization impact natives and @DDRJake 's response was that they now have to reform religion for feudalism to spread.

If I followed the Dev MP session well, I believe westernising as we know it will be removed. Westernising with RoM and beyond will now mean keeping up with the institutions and how they spread. If you border a Western nation it will spread its embraced institutions to its neighbours, so in that regard you're right.

I think we'll only be sure about how this works is when RoM comes out, when everybody is able to explore this new feature.

Correct, Westernization being removed is one of the first things they announced with RoM. You will have 0% tech penalty if you have embraced the most current institution. Each institution will tick up to what looks like a 50% tech malus until it's embraced. If you border any nation that has embraced the institution AND have positive relations with them, you will get that institution to spread towards your adjacent provinces. There are other ways to get it to spread, but that's a bit more complicated then I really want to type up right now. I know you can increase development to get it to spread for certain institutions if not all of them but I think there is a unique modifier per institution for how it spreads besides you owning a province that has the institution in it or bordering a country that has it embraced and you have positive relations with them.

 

[atwix]

so, you can develop a tribe into oblivion, migrate wherever you want, keep 1/1/1 tech, border Mexico or so and annex them all and then reforming religion and teching up from bordering colonizers?

What EXACTLY will get me boats and ability to colonize carribean? Do I still have to core a landline to nearest European?

They added so many new mechanics that I never toyed around with as native american tribe

Heh, maybe I should start chat with experienced folks here instead of posting this here

 

[Tom D.]

Correct, Westernization being removed is one of the first things they announced with RoM. You will have 0% tech penalty if you have embraced the most current institution. Each institution will tick up to what looks like a 50% tech malus until it's embraced. If you border any nation that has embraced the institution AND have positive relations with them, you will get that institution to spread towards your adjacent provinces. There are other ways to get it to spread, but that's a bit more complicated then I really want to type up right now. I know you can increase development to get it to spread for certain institutions if not all of them but I think there is a unique modifier per institution for how it spreads besides you owning a province that has the institution in it or bordering a country that has it embraced and you have positive relations with them.

I didn't know about the positive opinion. Also, am I right to suggest that you can get Renaissance as a native if you develop your land higher than 20? I believe that is one of the requirements to get it. If so, that means if you have MP enough (which I think will be the case as a native), gaining that institute won't be a problem.

And finally before I stop debating this, I don't know if you migrate if you loose all your development and get reduced to 1/1/1 again, that's something you'll have to find out.

 

[Frogbait]

I didn't know about the positive opinion. Also, am I right to suggest that you can get Renaissance as a native if you develop your land higher than 20? I believe that is one of the requirements to get it. If so, that means if you have MP enough (which I think will be the case as a native), gaining that institute won't be a problem.

And finally before I stop debating this, I don't know if you migrate if you loose all your development and get reduced to 1/1/1 again, that's something you'll have to find out.

You lose the province when you migrate, so you do lose your development invested.

It seems like it. However it seems like developing a province will just give you static institution points as well, so /shrug on what all it means at this point. There is a lot of conflicting information going on that we're likely stuck until Oct 11th for an answer since the Devs didn't answer my RoM natives thread from what I can tell so far

 

[Frogbait]

so, you can develop a tribe into oblivion, migrate wherever you want, keep 1/1/1 tech, border Mexico or so and annex them all and then reforming religion and teching up from bordering colonizers?

What EXACTLY will get me boats and ability to colonize carribean? Do I still have to core a landline to nearest European?

They added so many new mechanics that I never toyed around with as native american tribe

Heh, maybe I should start chat with experienced folks here instead of posting this here

I didn't see this post on my first response.

1) My previous post just answered that

2) Present day - westernization. Post Oct 11th? Not sure yet since Devs haven't said. Can be optimistic and hope the restrictions on boat building will be gone next patch.

3) If only such a group conversation existed!

 

[Frogbait]

And 3rd post is the charm. Finally caught up on my RoM Natives thread - Jake did in fact answer. Unfortunately Natives still have their current restrictions in place so they're still going to be a pain to play overall due to needing to wait for the Europeans.

Posed another question to Jake about it though which may make the european comment irrelevant. Based on today's DD, may be able to develop your way to an institution to then reform your government / religion off of as an alternatively to waiting for the filthy Yuros

 

[atwix]

You lose the province when you migrate, so you do lose your development invested.

It seems like it. However it seems like developing a province will just give you static institution points as well, so /shrug on what all it means at this point. There is a lot of conflicting information going on that we're likely stuck until Oct 11th for an answer since the Devs didn't answer my RoM natives thread from what I can tell so far

wait, development is lost on migrating?

How can development manpower be 'lost'? I can understand the part about administrative and diplo but....

*SIGH*

Man, think I'll go and read the eu4 wiki on all the post art of war mechanics regarding native american tribes.

Seems I NEED it

 

[Frogbait]

wait, development is lost on migrating?

How can development manpower be 'lost'? I can understand the part about administrative and diplo but....

*SIGH*

Man, think I'll go and read the eu4 wiki on all the post art of war mechanics regarding native american tribes.

Seems I NEED it

I could be completely wrong - note I am garbage at knowing non-mesoamerican special mechanics. That said, to my knowledge the way migration works is that you move to a new province aka you lose whatever you invested into your old province since developing is at a province level, not a nation level - much like buildings. Again though, I could be completely wrong on this - probably should have given that disclaimer first but I could have sworn I read somewhere that development is lost upon migration and given to the province that is now owner-less.

 

[Petrucci]

I just finished reading of this wonderful AAR. Absolutely splendid. Congratulations Atwix!
Good luck if you decide to pick those natives!

 

[atwix]

I just finished reading of this wonderful AAR. Absolutely splendid. Congratulations Atwix!
Good luck if you decide to pick those natives!

thanks!

Appreciated

 

[Petrucci]

I noticed you put an image with the girl from Turn up the speakers video (Mileena Fox) in some post

 

[atwix]

I noticed you put an image with the girl from Turn up the speakers video (Mileena Fox) in some post

heh, it showed same, but only in different timeperiod

I watched my first Bollywood movie also, thanks to this AAR and looking for stuff to use

Bajirao Mastani wasn't a bad movie.

 

[Tom D.]

American Natives reforming their religion gain all the institutions from their advanced neighbour

@atwix , I think this is the answer you were looking for regarding your 1.19 native run. I quoted this from the DD today, you might want to take a look at it as it explains most changes for patch 1.18 .

 

[atwix]

Oh I read all the dev diaries.

I am plotting more the second I get spoon fed more info.

TBH, I think you confused me saying 'I never read patch notes too well' and 'I don't reply to dev diaries because useless' with 'I never read Dev Diaries'

Example of what i've been theorycrafting:

1. developing key provinces while I migrate, only to recolonise them later. Especially tax development, as mercantilism boosting might be better points spent. Need to look where centers of trade etc are, or what colonies are jumping points colonial range wise.

2. Not teching up diplo and admin at all. Get military up to 6-7.

3. Developing capital of Farmland west of Cuba, on the coast.

4. Generally developing a crapton, and even trying out the experiment @Edmon did and start with custom BAD nation in northwest pacific, taking development reduction bonuses. That sounds.... I dunno though. I mean, Edmon tried out -development cost stacking for american natives, and it looked ... OK.

5. getting 'travois' and -3 stability for -55% on the 5 year migration timer.

We'll see.

For all I know, they will nerf American natives even more.