• We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.
You have two level advantage in mil tech. That is better troops scores, better pips, better combat width, and better siege tech. That is a vast advantage in terms of military capability! Yes, on paper your armies are comparable size, but that tech advantage is massive.
 
Anyone want to help me understand the intricacies of war? Or maybe just how to avoid my high frustration when the AI cheats (or seems to). I did fight the war with Spain. Stupidly forgot that since Aragon was their vassal, that I could not peace out with them. But, the real frustration is how the AI is able to move armies seemingly through teleport from 5 provinces away to join a battle?

Seriously, is there any gauge or insight as to how to really plan for this? I don't expect to stop it, and I won't complain about it (well, already did I guess, but...) just want to try and figure out how to deal with it. More than once I saw magic stacks of 35k troops appear from what had been 3 provinces away to join a battle. Or spin around on a dime after already marching away.

All I can think of is that I just have to make some Uber-large stack of troops to march around in concert. Were this not the 1500s, I might accept that as more likely, but really was frustrating.

My war went as planned until I saw France had decided to let us all beat up on each other, and thus give us all access through the South of France. :( The naval blockade worked fine, and I was able to gobble up all Italian lands and the islands (forgot Malta, dang it...and it has now become Sicily....hoping I can convince it to join my alliance). But then we ended up in a 4-5 year slog where they'd send massive stacks towards my French border at Avignon, only to be sent back. Meanwhile I would send troops around the north of the Pyrenees to take some lands either in Aragon or Spain. The forts would of course trap me into sieges while their troops could move wherever (I do get that part). Anyway, my goodness what a slog. If any of you have any advice for the military, I'd love to know.

I was really annoyed when the first battle had us at even strength, and I had the tech advantage, but they still beat my army. I am guessing it may have been a leadership difference as their army had 2 stars while mine only had 1. There's no way to fix that, is there? Any way to pay to upgrade your general?

The time of war finally was enough for Scotland to get out, and I was able to slowly get the war score high enough to get just a few provinces in Italy and Sardinia.

Should I release Naples as a vassal, and do the "feed the vassal" strategy to get the rest of the Spanish lands down the boot? Maybe the same with Sicily?
 
  • 1Haha
Reactions:
Were you the attacker in the battle or the defender? What was the terrain?

Also, it occurs to me you never told us Aragon’s tech level…

The basic combat strategy I would have picked for a war like this where I expect it to be a slog would involve waiting in North Italy, and only fighting their armies on the mountain forts where I would have terrain and defender advantages, only begining to p
 
  • 1
Reactions:
Anyone want to help me understand the intricacies of war? Or maybe just how to avoid my high frustration when the AI cheats (or seems to). I did fight the war with Spain. Stupidly forgot that since Aragon was their vassal, that I could not peace out with them. But, the real frustration is how the AI is able to move armies seemingly through teleport from 5 provinces away to join a battle?


Seriously, is there any gauge or insight as to how to really plan for this? I don't expect to stop it, and I won't complain about it (well, already did I guess, but...) just want to try and figure out how to deal with it. More than once I saw magic stacks of 35k troops appear from what had been 3 provinces away to join a battle. Or spin around on a dime after already marching away.
About those two complains could you get us screenshots as well a longer description (Basically in terms of cheating IIRC the AI only cheats from hard and further on while you cheat up until normal, so if you play on normal footing the A.I won't cheat, although their seems to be a change in behaviour but not in stats)
All I can think of is that I just have to make some Uber-large stack of troops to march around in concert. Were this not the 1500s, I might accept that as more likely, but really was frustrating.
The best is to have multiple stacks and to reinforce every so often, basically moral is a big deal and your troops which are in reserve (Basically if your army is bigger than the front lengh the gap will go in reserve which will take moral damage)
My war went as planned until I saw France had decided to let us all beat up on each other, and thus give us all access through the South of France.
There are only rare occasions where a country will not allow access to another war member and since the mil access is sharred between all members the same war the more participants there is the more probable is becomes that there will be mil access in between each participants
:( The naval blockade worked fine, and I was able to gobble up all Italian lands and the islands (forgot Malta, dang it...and it has now become Sicily....hoping I can convince it to join my alliance). But then we ended up in a 4-5 year slog where they'd send massive stacks towards my French border at Avignon, only to be sent back. Meanwhile I would send troops around the north of the Pyrenees to take some lands either in Aragon or Spain. The forts would of course trap me into sieges while their troops could move wherever (I do get that part). Anyway, my goodness what a slog. If any of you have any advice for the military, I'd love to know.
A good advice is overall to blitz the smaller participants (by either rushing their capital of carpet sieging their not fort capital and peacing them out) , all multifront wars are a slog because you have to share your attention between each of them (which is one of the numerous advantages of the vassal swarm), the worst case scenario is basically a stack wipe. Landing troops is always a very risky proposition so it usually is to be done only when you are assured that you have bigger troops and you can deploy quickly and efficiently (lots of transport usually) or if you have no choice (e.g: French invading england)

One important thing is to see how your economy can handle the war, are you bleeding money? Will your economy recover from full war reparations from participants, can you afford mercs?

In terms of forts it is mostly about bottlenecks and detours, the priority is to be able to continue the war as well as beeing able to damage the enemies ressources as much as possible, bottlenecks defending your land will allow your territories to be safe and reduces war exhaustion, loss of prosperity and nasty events. Aim for weakening them.

Overall in terms of strategy it's a war of ressources, quick and fast wars and gains from which you recover easily are the best wars while pyrric wars are to be dreaded.

Once again Reman has made an amazing series of videos on EU4 warfare which are still almost fully relevant (the guy is a legend his all YT vids on EU4 are a must watch if you want to avoid the inherent frustation of ignorance)

Here's the first one out of four :

I was really annoyed when the first battle had us at even strength, and I had the tech advantage, but they still beat my army. I am guessing it may have been a leadership difference as their army had 2 stars while mine only had 1. There's no way to fix that, is there? Any way to pay to upgrade your general?

Tech advantage is a big deal yet it doesn't do all, if you want to have a better vision there are lots of things that come in to play but the 2 big ones are : Moral and discipline (which are feed from multiple modifiers and stats) to have a better understanding of the quality gap between the participants go on the ledger on the military/army quality and ask to display the war enemies, you will be able to compare, army composition also play a big role (there a lot to it big long story short is : Cav plays a big role in early game especially with entities with big bonus to them such as hords, poland etc...; and stops beeing all that good when art comes into play around tech 15-16.
The time of war finally was enough for Scotland to get out, and I was able to slowly get the war score high enough to get just a few provinces in Italy and Sardinia.
In a peace deal you ultimate goal is to make future wars easier and to secure the land of the enemy (E.G : if spain is significantly weaker from the war and you are afraid that france might look at it too hard you would want to snake enough so that france be "Cucked" from spanish land, or if Forts are a big headachs than snake in order to seize the majority of the forts so that a couple of major battles plus one or two forts and some carpet sieging might turn the next war into a cheap one, or lastly if the war lasted 5 more years becomes you could no fullfill your goal until scotland/england/ireland/ etc... had to be peaced out so break the alliances and ally them.
Should I release Naples as a vassal, and do the "feed the vassal" strategy to get the rest of the Spanish lands down the boot? Maybe the same with Sicily?
Land has a price bottleneck, in italy it's usually AE, so if you want low AE reconquest CB is great, it also means high DIP cost tho, but is free of ADM, at a certain size I've also find that a low stress method for italian land acquisition was releasing OPM's and then diplo vassalizing them, it does require for the GAP in terms of DEV to be high enough but It cna work wonder given how many OPMS are releasable in Italy.
 
  • 1
Reactions:
Lastly, choosing is renouncing so please to link up more details and screenshots so that we can recommand less broad strokes of strategies but what would be suitable given your particular given situation.
 
  • 1
Reactions:
Thank you Robbie and blackbird! I was the attacker, if you mean who declared war on whom. If you mean in any of the specific battle, it was mixed. I think in general, I am still such a newbie, and also still coming from my previous experience in EU2 where battles remained largely at the strategic level. Yes, even there, the basics of who had the most troops, was there a leader, and morale+tech+discipline mattered. Here, though, EU4 has seemed to really make steps towards being more of a tactical battle game. Not fully...I'm still able to just roll armies around strategically and not worry generally, but I can tell there's much, much more that one can do relative to army make-up, the battleground and so forth. I'm a very old military gamer, so I'm familiar with all the general particulars, but I think the thing that bothered me the most (in this war and in the one with the OE a few decades before) is how the enemy armies just randomly appeared. Of course, it wasn't really random, but an example of how the computer can deal with multiple things at once and I cannot. LOL. I've realized that I must put the speed on slow, and when I'm watching an enemy stack, pause often to see exactly when it will arrive or when it has changed direction so I can then plan any attempted countermove.

As to your point, blackbird, about composition, the main army that was causing the most problem was like half infantry and half cannons, while my armies were more 60-20-20, maybe a bit more cannons. And, like I think I said, the Spanish general had 2 stars while mine only had 1.

To your question about economy, as you all have taught me, by focusing on trade, my economy is very strong. I did lose some money during the war, but had enough in the bank that it was never an issue. I did buy mercenary armies for the quick build, as you noted, and it allowed me to stabilize the war. And this time I did a much better job of watching my manpower. I've been working on this, completing Quantity idea as well as building some of the key army buildings. It got a bit low in this war, but I was watching it carefully to help guide me as to when to peace out, and take what I could get rather than getting greedy.


But, I am learning as I hope I convey with what happened next, so on with the story. Things went quickly over the next few decades. It has been fun. I did go ahead and release Naples as a vassal and picked up Sicily as a vassal after this first war with Spain (1566-1571). Two years later, the Commonwealth invited me into their war that involved the OE. I took my Spanish lessons to heart and made sure I kept my armies together and on a tight leash. I lost one battle, but was able to recover well enough to ultimately take Constantinople. It obviously helped that the main OE armies were up in the Commonwealth. Those are the two largest army nations, so they were really slugging it out, but I was able to really turn the tide for the PLC. I wasn't sure what kind of peace deal I would get, so in the end I peaced-out to take Zora and Cattaro, surrounding Venice and Ragusa. To try and weaken the OE more, and protect my flank, I made them release Herzgovina (I've allied them and trying to vassal, but part of the Empire, so....) and Montenegro. OE war was 1573-1577

While resting, I considered going for Tunisia after PLC made the OE drop them from alliance, but Portugal swooped in to protect them. ???? grrr, but I decided that since France still didn't like me and Spain now hated me, that I didn't need to anger the one other nearby nation that I might want to ally with to help with Spain. So, in 1579, I took out Venice and the Knights. In the peace deal, I took the Knights separately, and then released them as a vassal. Then with Venice, I took Spalato and Crete, but gave Crete to the Knights. Since you guys have all taught me about feeding my vassal, I realized that I can use the Knights in later wars with the OE to control the Aegean.

Now meanwhile, the diplomatic story changed in that France went to war with Spain and crushed them (1576-1581/82). This was what you had foreseen blackbird! :) As you can see with the map, France took northern Iberia. So, now, instead of trying to befriend France, I see that they are going to remain a threat that I will need to deal with. But, since Spain was clearly beat up, I did war #2 with Spain (Nov 1581-Dec 1584). This time it was a Reconquest war as you guys had suggested (had to hunt to figure it out, but finally saw it). This one was much easier and was able to take both Madrid and Toledo during the war. I was able to take more of southern Italy for Naples (Molise, Avellino, Salerno, and then tried the "return core" thing in the peace deal to learn that such means the enemy gives land back to the other nation....I made them give the core back on Capitanata). And I gave Siracusa and Messina to give to Sicily.

Last bit of the story....right at the end of my war, about a month after, the PLC and Austria solved my alliance issue when they went to war with each other over some small German state. As you can see, the PLC is gigantic now (and I think a war with Muscovy is certainly coming). I decided that since I needed Austrian and Cillian land, and because I realized that Savoy was never going to accept a vassal stance (I even tried a quick save strategy to give Savoy back their two core provinces which, while it made it a little better, they still have that "member of the Empire" thing that kept the score against me)....I went with the OE and helped them destroy Austria. I almost conquered all of Savoy by myself, in which I was going to take all the land and then release them back to as a vassal (maybe...too many allies penalty has me pondering), but I couldn't take down the Level 3 Fort on Ciamberi.

During all this time, I finally realized the "province of interest" tool actually helps guide the AI as far as peace deals come. In that first war with the OE, I peaced out ahead of the PLC because I wanted those specific provinces. But by the time of Austria, I decided to try using the province of interest and in the peace deal that the PLC got with Austria, they gave me all the land that I wanted on the Adriatic: Trieste, Rijeka and Licca. That war was from Feb 1585-June 1587.

Whew. So, its a brand new game. The Commonwealth is my only real ally currently. Naples, Sicily and the Knights are my vassals. I do have Herzegovina as an ally, but they won't be much. Was thinking I could vassal-feed them more of the Balkans, but at least for now, I can't beat the "member of the Empire" tag. I'm busily sending all of my missionaries around to convert all these places that were Protestant.

There will be a third war with Spain, even though strategically it would probably be better to hit France first. Not sure the best path to get to that. England can't seem to recover from Scotland, and for some reason they are allies with Spain alongside Scotland. And of course we'll go again with the OE a few more times. Based on what else you've all told me, I will need to deal with the Mamluks soon enough too, but every time I try to go into North Africa, there's a snag. LOL.
 
And here's the map....but I do have one more question. My governing capacity is nearly 100% (590 out of 620). And I have 5 territories that are not states. Doesn't making them states eat up more governing capacity? I guess I need to do that Administrative idea, but that's not going to happen any time soon. Just wondering what some strategies are to confront this, or should I not worry about it?

20210816092929_1.jpg
 
Last edited:
You should have a look at what the "will join the war" modifier is between Portugal and tunis, and would they be able to pose a significant threat to spain or france(the real calculus is wether they can help you or not and what could you gain from tunis, as Dev points are always better in your pocket rather than the A.I's)? also now would be the time to rush the mamluk for you the ottomans have started their conquest and might outshine you after a couple of wars with the mamluks.

In terms of HRE, have you considered dismantling the HRE? and what consequences there would be? (as In france and Commonwealth might start munching on it.


So to recap your priority should be to block france from eating spain, same thing for the ottos and mamluks, considering the HRE dismantlement and seeing Tunis.
 
And here's the map....but I do have one more question. My governing capacity is nearly 100% (590 out of 620). And I have 5 territories that are not states. Doesn't making them states eat up more governing capacity?
It does indeed, Gov capacity is impacted by the status of said land, Territory, Trade company, Stated (respectivly : -25% for trade company, -75% for territories, -100% in state company).
I guess I need to do that Administrative idea, but that's not going to happen any time soon. Just wondering what some strategies are to confront this, or should I not worry about it?
There are actually multiple ways :

Buildings : State house and courthouse
Reforms : from the second before the end reform, and some special reforms as well as gov rank (duchy<kingdom<empire)
In percentage : from a lot of stuff
Tech : some tech give you some more

For the exhaustive list : https://eu4.paradoxwikis.com/States_and_territories#Governing_capacity
 
You should have a look at what the "will join the war" modifier is between Portugal and tunis, and would they be able to pose a significant threat to spain or france(the real calculus is wether they can help you or not and what could you gain from tunis, as Dev points are always better in your pocket rather than the A.I's)? also now would be the time to rush the mamluk for you the ottomans have started their conquest and might outshine you after a couple of wars with the mamluks.

In terms of HRE, have you considered dismantling the HRE? and what consequences there would be? (as In france and Commonwealth might start munching on it.


So to recap your priority should be to block france from eating spain, same thing for the ottos and mamluks, considering the HRE dismantlement and seeing Tunis.

So, help me understand what that modifier is, or what exactly I'm looking at. I do understand how the war window looks, that you can see who will come or not. But you seem to be suggesting a higher-level insight concept than I have as to whether Portugal+Tunisia might be able to fight off Spain? If Portugal gets into a war, and Tunisia is only their protectorate, will Tunisia come Into that war?

I hadn't thought about diving into central North Africa after the Mamluks, but you are right...it does look like the OE is eating into Palestine. That is something I need to consider more.

And, finally, what do you mean about dismantling the HRE? I'm not a member anymore (left way back when during that option about the Shadow Empire). How does one dismantle it?
 
My thought would be at this point dismantling the HRE is more effort than it is worth. Going north from your current position makes little sense, now Savoy is gone.

Similarly, clashing with France spies probably a lower priority than finishing off Spain. Spain and Aragon are occupying the Sevilla and Valencia trade nodes, they must die for trade to flow to Genoa from the Atlantic (technically, Bordeaux to Champagne to Genoa would also work, but that involves an inland node which is bad).

Personally I would be looking for ways to get at the Mamluks. If you can get Egypt and draw the bulk of that trade to Genoa, you can push South and East from there following the trade routes to India.
 
  • 1Like
Reactions:
So, help me understand what that modifier is, or what exactly I'm looking at. I do understand how the war window looks, that you can see who will come or not. But you seem to be suggesting a higher-level insight concept than I have as to whether Portugal+Tunisia might be able to fight off Spain? If Portugal gets into a war, and Tunisia is only their protectorate, will Tunisia come Into that war?

There are two things :
- wether Portugal can be a threat for france and/or spain (compare the total manpower, force limit and the aformentioned army quality comparison tab between said nation) which will answer your question of wether or not you should care about pissing them of
- Portugal willingness to accept a call to arm from tunisia's calling (for that open the declare war interface and you will see modifiers for and against it if you put the cursor on the tick/cross next to the option to add portugal to the cobelligerent) as in could you have an easier war by having portugal not intervening in your invasion of Tunisia
I hadn't thought about diving into central North Africa after the Mamluks, but you are right...it does look like the OE is eating into Palestine. That is something I need to consider more.
You goals is to become bigger than your rivals/rivals to come, that can come by directly reducing their size as well as reducing their prospects in terms of conquest.

You essentially want for you to be the only one able to challenge the status quo in terms of balance of power.
And, finally, what do you mean about dismantling the HRE? I'm not a member anymore (left way back when during that option about the Shadow Empire). How does one dismantle it?
It's quite simple, all the electors + HR emperor's capital must be either occupied or allied to you, then on the HRE UI the option to dismantle the HRE will stop beeing greyed-out, that asks two questions :
- Can you win the war (seems completly doable if you have one of the HRE neighboors helping you (PLC seems in a good spot and you have good relations IIRC)
-Will it benefit you more than the other actors in the region to dismantle the HRE

Nota Bene : You need Vienna to form the roman empire.

The whole point at the end is to remove all the complications that come from taking land from the HRE (OE, having to fight a cobelligerated Emperor, unlawafull territory etc...
 
New Question....do I care about the League war? I did look it up. Apparently its "fun" and makes things "exciting". If you are not in the League, and then you declare war on one of the League members, does that mean the entire group goes to war with you?
 
My thought would be at this point dismantling the HRE is more effort than it is worth. Going north from your current position makes little sense, now Savoy is gone.

Similarly, clashing with France spies probably a lower priority than finishing off Spain. Spain and Aragon are occupying the Sevilla and Valencia trade nodes, they must die for trade to flow to Genoa from the Atlantic (technically, Bordeaux to Champagne to Genoa would also work, but that involves an inland node which is bad).

Personally I would be looking for ways to get at the Mamluks. If you can get Egypt and draw the bulk of that trade to Genoa, you can push South and East from there following the trade routes to India.
I think this advice is spot on for a med power. Genoa to Alexandria and then to the east has many advantages. First, once you break the Mamelukes, you are fighting second rate powers, at least until you get to India, which you can deal with once you have a fleet and permanent forces in the Indian Ocean. Second, the European colonizers tend to be late to Asia, especially if you aren’t going around Africa. Third, and most important of all, if you control Malacca, Coromandel and Gujarat trade nodes, you can divert trade away from the Cape which means that it doesn’t flow into Seville, Bordeaux and North Sea. And, Gujarat allows you to divert trade away from Constantinople. Fourth, it keeps you out of the New World scramble, which you are poorly positioned to play in anyway.
 
Looking at the last map you posted, I’d finish pushing the Spanish out of Italy, then start improving relations with Spain and eventually ally them. That will likely prevent France from going deeper into Spain and eventually, you may be able to restore the balance of power between France and Spain. If you can keep them busy fighting each other, with a little wartime help from you, they won’t bother you for a century at least. Commonwealth is an ally you want to keep. Don’t get drawn deeply into their wars, but don’t turn away a call to arms either. They will be invaluable in another war witH OE because OE will send armies against PLC first. If you can dominate the sea, you’ll do fine.
 
I think this advice is spot on for a med power. Genoa to Alexandria and then to the east has many advantages. First, once you break the Mamelukes, you are fighting second rate powers, at least until you get to India, which you can deal with once you have a fleet and permanent forces in the Indian Ocean. Second, the European colonizers tend to be late to Asia, especially if you aren’t going around Africa. Third, and most important of all, if you control Malacca, Coromandel and Gujarat trade nodes, you can divert trade away from the Cape which means that it doesn’t flow into Seville, Bordeaux and North Sea. And, Gujarat allows you to divert trade away from Constantinople. Fourth, it keeps you out of the New World scramble, which you are poorly positioned to play in anyway.
Got it!

When I fight the Mamluks, am I correct to think in terms of occupying and keeping Alexandria, and probably some provinces around there? And is this when I can form a trade company to control the land?
 
I’m late to the war discussion, so hopefully I’m not repeating what others have said.

Some tech advantages are massive, some not so much. You need to look at what advantages the tech steps gave you to know. Also, within tech, some new types of troops are a big deal and some are not. Again, you need to look at the additional pips you got - how many and what type.

Stars on generals are misleading. You need to look at their stats to know if your two star general is better than their one star one.

I think morale superiority is very important. I tend to go for advisors who improve morale and to invest in tech that gives morale bonuses. Especially in the early part of the game where casualties tend to be lower and armies break before the casualties mount up. Other people like discipline, because it reduces your casualties and increases the enemy’s.

The AI likes cannons. Received wisdom is that you need a full front line of infantry and a full front line of artillery. That is probably ideal but I tend to go lighter on artillery until the higher tech levels where artillery finally comes into its own.

I find that the AI tends to mirror the size of your army’s. If you build doom stacks, the AI does too. If you build smaller armies, the AI does too. Personally, I like multiple Corp sized armies, operating within supporting range and able to converge on a battle. It solves the attrition problem, gives me lots of flexibility and the AI seems to misjudge the size force I can concentrate.

Finally, use peacetime to drill your armies. It means that you need several months to get back on a war footing, so you need to plan ahead, but drill improves the quality of your units and of your overall army.
 
Got it!

When I fight the Mamluks, am I correct to think in terms of occupying and keeping Alexandria, and probably some provinces around there? And is this when I can form a trade company to control the land?
Yes. Alexandria is your western flank. Delta contains lots of trade power and, in the provinces south of Cairo, valuable trade goods. Plus there is a bottleneck that is a good spot for a southern fortress. To the east you need Sinai for a port so that you can move troops to the east by sea without going around Africa. You can put your eastern fort there or go a little farther east and take the two Mameluke forts that provide a screen.

Like your fight with Spain, this is more than one war. But OE has already weakened Mamelukes and you need to get the critical territory before OE gets to it.

And yes, this is where you form a trade company (and probably assign light ships to protect trade). And assign a merchant to transfer trade to Genoa. You want to get more than 50% of trade power because that will get you a free merchant. Check back when you get the trade company started. The trade game is really well developed, very complicated and lots of alternative ways to dominate it. And very fun.
 
If you are still almost at governing capacity, you can release Catalonia as a vassal from Spain/Aragon. They have a lot of cores and you can feed whatever extra land you pick up to them until you have enough capacity to integrate. The best bang for your buck is probably going to be transferring trade power from Catalonia to you, conquering Iberian trade centers first, and then taking the Caribbean and African holdings from Spain. This gives you an avenue into Southeast Asia, essentially untying the knot you are finding yourself inside of between Spain, France, Austria, the OE, and the Mamluks.
 
Yes. Alexandria is your western flank. Delta contains lots of trade power and, in the provinces south of Cairo, valuable trade goods. Plus there is a bottleneck that is a good spot for a southern fortress. To the east you need Sinai for a port so that you can move troops to the east by sea without going around Africa. You can put your eastern fort there or go a little farther east and take the two Mameluke forts that provide a screen.

Like your fight with Spain, this is more than one war. But OE has already weakened Mamelukes and you need to get the critical territory before OE gets to it.

And yes, this is where you form a trade company (and probably assign light ships to protect trade). And assign a merchant to transfer trade to Genoa. You want to get more than 50% of trade power because that will get you a free merchant. Check back when you get the trade company started. The trade game is really well developed, very complicated and lots of alternative ways to dominate it. And very fun.
Further to this, if you are going through the Mamluks, it is worth sniping Jerusalem and Mecca as you pass through the area. Extra missionaries for free!