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Yes, but the more than 40 000 copies sold by AoD, as Johan stated, are still an impressive achievement. Kudos to them!
And Johan was talking about units... Take into account that DH's price at its release was €9.99, AoD's price €19.99, that AoD was priced in spring 2012 still at €13.95 while DH €9.95, and it's clear that in revenue terms the gap has to be much wider than 15% (more than "almost as much", and certainly not "much less"). What a great result from a non-competitor and underdog, so congratulations, indeed!
Sorry but you misinterpreted my sentence. What i meant from the beginning was that i don´t consider DH as an economical failure
And now end of Story (at least from my side)
Funny. I simply wrote that, by reading on these forums, one gets the impression that DH sold more than AoD (utterly false given official sales figures):
Then you quoted me and replied that the volume of sales from DH makes you think otherwise:
Now, while you're perfectly right in saying that, proportionally, DH has sold more than AoD if we take the same period of time as a comparison, it still remains a mystery for me where did you draw from the idea, given my words, that I stated that DH was an economical failure (since that is what you must have somehow understood, otherwise you wouldn't have answered the way you did), while I simply and only wrote that it's not true that it sold more than AoD - and not that it was an economical failure. They're two completely different concepts, I'd say.
End of the story from my side as well.
He's got a point. AOD has been out far longer than DH. Also, AOD absorbed a whole lot of fans because of the recent disappointment with HOI3
He's surely got a point, yes. I'm not denying the success of DH and never did; on the contrary.
But please, read again our discussion: I just stated that some people claim that DH sold more than FTM, and that this has been patently proven wrong. Nothing more, nothing less.
Proportionally, DH has surely sold more than AoD, but totally it's still behind (at least for now).
Thats surprising. I thought DH wiped the floor with AOD. I mean AOD has been dead for... ever. Nothing like DH's community and fan base. Game-play wise it never even came close to DH for me.
I think the simple fact that AoD came before DH and was the first fan produced spinoff. This created a lot of initial buzz and lead to higher sales. DH came after AoD and IC so it got overshadow at first and probably thought of as just another one of those fan spinoff game.
I think the simple fact that AoD came before DH and was the first fan produced spinoff. This created a lot of initial buzz and lead to higher sales. DH came after AoD and IC so it got overshadow at first and probably thought of as just another one of those fan spinoff game.
I'd be willing to pay for a new and vastly improved supply system, and official support for AAR. Though I wouldn't want the game to go much past the 50s.
Two things. If it's logical, that first release absorbs more fans (and this diluted DH's unit sales), how about the other fact that more expensive product sells less units (and this diluted AoD's unit sales)? If prices are different, sold units aren't the best measure comparing two products. If you already take this commercial view about perceived quality (customers voting with their wallets), lets focus on revenues.
As mentioned before, in total revenues AoD has done better. But what about time? If you compare revenues per time periods games have been available (multiply sold units with price and divide with months), based on Johan's figures and prices I posted (you can recheck them through the Internet, if you have a doubt), even with conservative estimation that AoD has been priced all the time it has been out at €13.95 (this was its actual price still in this spring, now it's €9.95, but at release it was (and must have been for a some time) €19.99) the two games have sold more or less equal when adjusted with time. I don't know when AoD's price was brought down to €13.95 from €19.99, but I believe it was actually late enough to justify a claim that AoD has sold slightly better even in revenue per time unit sense.
I'm bothering you with all those figures only because it was predictable that time factor is brought in, that we'll get stuck in minor details, and get sucked into yet another fruitless DH vs AoD debate. The whole point of this discussion -- at least for me -- is that someone with reputation, authority and respect has been very creative with his words for a long time, to put it politely. If you think that anything goes, it's not a big deal and it's just one-time slip, it would be impossible to convince you otherwise and I even don't want to. But I don't find that a haughty and slighting tone is something marvelous that we all should approve, especially if it's based on feeding false claims with self-serving purpose and using one's position as a cover. I don't care, really, how much DH or AoD or FTM "have sold", but I dislike narcissistic and dishonest personalities, and general indifference towards their actions.
- Dec 14, 1999
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IMHO one could almost get different impression, as after all AoD was pretty much HoI2 with more technical stuff improved and certain limitations removed, most of them subtle enough it practically looks like carbon copy of HoI2 where some of the “fun” of HoI2 is taken out. I really have not seen AoD mentioned that often outside Paradox forums, nor say reviews and whatnot, compared to DH which had a lot of fan marketing on these forums, outside these forums and so on. DH had this, that, most mods rallied behind it, famous modders developing it etc. Of course it's all down to interpretation, but that itself would almost ripe of something amusing as an implication with all the vague numbers thrown around.
Now I'll call it the end of story on my side. If someone truly wishes to continue this yet another stupid my daddy's better than yours- debate, feel free to use PMs. It's just plain silly at this point to go on an on about who likes what more than the other.
This. Cheer up, people. I mean, we are talking about games released on the old engine made by fans... Seriously, the debate is VERY strange - we should be happy that games like this can be successful.
This. Very sensible and balanced view. Probably most of us can agree with that. I merely wonder why only few people mentioned it when we got treated with made up statistics (presented with an intent to indicate through customers' alleged preferences a superior quality of one of those games and influence potential buyers of another game). When the "sold much more" argument is officially proved to be wrong finally, we have suddenly developed a situation where many feel that the game they like is under attack somehow. No it isn't! You are just well conditioned. AoD and DH are different games, with different strengths, sold equally well, lets buy and play BOTH. Is it OK statement?
As a massive history buff (World War Two in particular), and a fan of deep strategy games, I can't thank the developers of both games enough! I have played both thoroughly, and enjoy both thoroughly. As someone that has recently noticed becoming easily bored with the many shallow console games, and their many carbon copy sequels, that keep getting published for around £40 ($60), I really appreciate the effort the devs have gone to produce, and keep patching, these great games which cost, let's not forget, about £10 (15$).
I honestly can not believe how long it took me to find them.
I honestly can not believe how long it took me to find them.
You know, it doesn't shock me at all. If you've always been told something you'll end up believing it, no matter what's the real matter of that given thing.
You've always read that the one game was a lot better than the other, or that e.g. it has "sold much more" than the other. Now, one of these popular beliefs has been wiped out. Time to reconsider the second as well, maybe?
Besides: does this mean anything at all, at least for me? No. Are they both great games? Yes.
And now let's get happily back to the gist of this thread, i.e. an eventual DH expansion, please.
DH expansion can be a good thing later on. Maybe some focus one between the wars and little more after 1945.
Judging by the quiet, PMs are probably exchanged again to formulate an Official Statement. Maybe even lawyers are consulted? Oh dear.