I think we lost alot of hoi2 players to hoi3, eventhough its more like victoria....
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Just out of curiosity, is that in terms of units or in terms of revenue?
At its release, FTM's price was €19.99 and DH's €9.99, now both cost the same €9.95 (for a some time already).
Even in terms of units DH can't have "sold much more" compared to FTM. That claim is false no matter how you look at it.
As a player who has given up on HoI3 there are two features I would like to see in DH II, which I really liked in HoI3 - divisions that can be tailored.. ie, you can choose the brigades - and a command structure of armies and army groups without all the fiddling.. the first part you can probably do with the existing HoI engine by extending the existing brigade attachment system but the second may be quite tough .. but perhaps separate HQs for navy and air force commands with the new units system at least..
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No, Im not.
Main reason is that engine is getting out dated and so I am. HOI2 and her children feels too much like micro and excel today. You have to be constantly monitoring everything. Did your IC drop? Look production! Did you mobilize more? Look out not losing gearing bonuses! Combat is relatively nice if you play as a Soviets, only one big front and no navy. But as a Germany or US everything just explodes on your table because you have to deal everything and monitor everything. Look out troops suply on island, few frontline there, naval warfare, economy, , set commanders and remember where they are, calculate and estimate recources and so on.
Too much stuff on the table I say.
Main reason is that engine is getting out dated and so I am. HOI2 and her children feels too much like micro and excel today. You have to be constantly monitoring everything. Did your IC drop? Look production! Did you mobilize more? Look out not losing gearing bonuses! Combat is relatively nice if you play as a Soviets, only one big front and no navy. But as a Germany or US everything just explodes on your table because you have to deal everything and monitor everything. Look out troops suply on island, few frontline there, naval warfare, economy, , set commanders and remember where they are, calculate and estimate recources and so on.
Too much stuff on the table I say.
After EUIV PDS will most probably make HoI4 as the next mainline title. I really hope that it will integrate some of the most favourited features of AoD and DH.
E.g.:
-Less provinces (perhaps half as many) but a better worked out map.
-Claims vs cores system
-Mobilization system (like in DH)
-Casualty tracker
-More decisions
-a bit more rational and less computer resource consuming supply system (like in AoD)
and so on
E.g.:
-Less provinces (perhaps half as many) but a better worked out map.
-Claims vs cores system
-Mobilization system (like in DH)
-Casualty tracker
-More decisions
-a bit more rational and less computer resource consuming supply system (like in AoD)
and so on
As much as I do agree to certain extent, HoI3 at least used to be even more egregious at times. Most of the time playing as USSR you spent pretty much time simply to wonder where commanders were assigned, or did you assign them elsewhere, while your supply corps were 50-50 did they want to supply division stationed somewhere in Far East unless you moved it around every now and then. Of course, I cannot speak for FTM and\or TFH, but at least HoI3 + SF was somewhere between enjoyable when it worked, and math exercise for Ph.D papers when you spent 15 minutes with pen, paper, and a calculator to make sure everything is in order theoretically, only to be met with cryptic “Not in supply” error because the game decided otherwise -> back to square one, and even if you avoided going too far so the supply lines can keep up, suddenly fresh divisions landing in a port overseas are not in supply, and supply map mode claimed there was not a problem.
If the UI and basic automation (and the system as a whole) has been notably improved since then, perhaps I ought to consider giving them a look on sale or so.
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I actually like very much the number of provinces in HOI3. In my opinion more is better especially if you want to have a blitzkrieg. For example, as many pointed out, 140 Allies divisions from Switzerland to the Nord Sea in DH creates a stack of 25 divisions per province. By the way don't get me wrong because the guy that worked on the DH map did an excellent job and is one of the most skilled person I ever seen. The issue is about province’s size and, hence, province's number.
For the rest my top priorities (in DH or HOI4 or whatsoever) I would like finally a split between manpower and hardware, improved economics (realistic IC) and a better logistic system (for DH as HOI3 is pretty much ok).
I carefully decied to avoid a pit called HOI3. HOI3 is simply too controversial because it is so poorly designed. It has many good elements but it also has many restrictions which shoots it down.
I would like to give commands to my armies, not directly command them. I would like to send my admiral by order to sea and then read his report how mission is going.
I dont want to click my fleet to sea and directly monitor it if I spot any fleets, planes and troops while I fought against my enemy in distant continent.
It's also very interesting to hear that DH didn't even sell as much as AoD, as it would always have seemed reading here around.
Hence, now my hopes for an AoD expansion are getting stronger
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As far as I know the AoD team moved to the Clausewitz engine. No way...It's also very interesting to hear that DH didn't even sell as much as AoD, as it would always have seemed reading here around.
Hence, now my hopes for an AoD expansion are getting stronger
PS
Anyhow through patches the DH team is keeping the game alive and I hope that this will help the sales.
I would happily pay $15 +/- for any expansion that adds a reasonable amount of new content. I think this is likely the best way to continue funding the games development.
even hoi3 has a faster unit build speed, we must force general mobilization!
I'm good with more provinces as well, but at a certain point (and HoI3 is way over it) it is enough. After that point the you will find hard to manage your whole army and plan ahead. Of course you have AI controlled armies is HoI3, but that's a piece of crap. The army organization of the AI is just screwed up, whenever I turn on what will happen my well organized army is turned into an manageable shitstorm. If you keep the units under your command you can do proper blitzkrieg or elastic defence (or whatever tactics your want to try with the nation you play as), however you will have no fun because you have to take every single province and make order to every single unit. The way I see it, hard-line players/strategists want to manage to their damn armies because that should be the essence of grand strategy games (not some sandboxified AI shit). IMHO 4000-5000 would be perfect amount of land provinces for such a game.
As for the supply system, have you ever tried Barbarossa in HoI3? If you have you know what I'm talking about. On the other hand the supply system of AoD makes much more sense to me than the one of HoI3.
Regarding provinces I really like HOI3. It's a matter of scale I guess but having stack of divisions in my opinion is far from reality. More it is better. In terms of logistic AoD is ok but HOI3 is better. Anyhow the logistic was and is one of the most important issues in war and I'm still looking for a system that can mimic the issues the Axis had in North Africa where the cost of moving the supplies to El Alamein was so high that the units starved of everything but first and foremost had no fuel.
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Sorry if I repeat anything, but this thread has so many posts I am not able to catch up. Short answer, absolutely without a doubt I would pay for an expansion to DH. Obviously I would want some content I think is good and the price would need to be reasonable. But since the cost of the game was reasonable to begin with I can't see any expansion being overly expensive. If I averaged out the hours played to the money spent on every game I have purchased in the past 5+ years, DH would come out way ahead. It has been in my top 3 games played constantly since it first came out, while other games have entered and left that top 3.
In terms of what I would like to see in such an expansion I believe others have said everything I would pay for. Improved WW1 scenario, events/leaders/etc for interconnection between WW1 scenario and WW2 scenarios, something interesting in the pre-WW1 time frame, new eye candy (sprites), an intuitive game editor (maybe edit save games and save as scenarios?).
BTW, I hate to sound like a fan-boy, but I do love P-dox. I am sure Johan is burning the candle at both ends right now with making the latest EU game (the flagship of the company), yet he still manages to respond to a thread that wasn't even directly put to him over in the DH section, 5 pages deep. I don't think any other game company has this level of responsiveness to its customers.
In terms of what I would like to see in such an expansion I believe others have said everything I would pay for. Improved WW1 scenario, events/leaders/etc for interconnection between WW1 scenario and WW2 scenarios, something interesting in the pre-WW1 time frame, new eye candy (sprites), an intuitive game editor (maybe edit save games and save as scenarios?).
BTW, I hate to sound like a fan-boy, but I do love P-dox. I am sure Johan is burning the candle at both ends right now with making the latest EU game (the flagship of the company), yet he still manages to respond to a thread that wasn't even directly put to him over in the DH section, 5 pages deep. I don't think any other game company has this level of responsiveness to its customers.
It's also very interesting to hear that DH didn't even sell as much as AoD, as it would always have seemed reading here around.
Hence, now my hopes for an AoD expansion are getting stronger
Considering the fact that DH sold in 1 1/2 years almost as much as AoD in 2 1/2 years makes me think otherwise.
Let´s see what EvW will bring in the future
Yes, but the more than 40 000 copies sold by AoD, as Johan stated, are still an impressive achievement. Kudos to them!
Well, AoD patch 1.08 has been released just a few weeks ago, so I'd say there must be still some dev working on it, mustn't it?
Please point me to where did I say that DH's sales weren't impressive. I never did, nor that was my intention. It surely has sold extremely good compared to the time it has been out, so congratulations to the team!
I was just stating that, after reading the real situation about sales, FT's claim that DH would have sold more than AoD or FTM is a fib.
Also, East vs West is another kettle of fish. We were comparing AoD's sales to DH ones, now.
Thanks for understanding what I meant, Andrea. And congrats again to you and the other devs for the undeniable results you've achieved!Yes, but the more than 40 000 copies sold by AoD, as Johan stated, are still an impressive achievement. Kudos to them!